JM485 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Because smog testing cars has nothing whatsoever to do with clean air. It's a tax, plain and simple. Finally, someone gets it. Same goes for all the ridiculous OHV laws they are trying to create, but that is a whole nother story. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooterville75 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 New Jersey discovered that inspecting vehicles was a waste of time so they stopped doing everything but the emissions test, and that's only every two years. The sticker travels with the car, so can buy a car with a new sticker that you don't need to inspect for two years. A brand new car gets a seven year sticker, again which travels with the car. My daughter bought a used 2011 car today that has a 2018 sticker on it. While they don't check for equipment violations, a cop can ticket you for one. Then I moved to Pennsylvania! What a friggin backward state. You get your drivers license at a state license center, but your car titles, registrations and plates are bought a little private stores, that charge you for the privilege. They will give you plates and registrations on the spot, but to get a title, they HAND CARRY the applications to the state capital. You pay a courier fee for that one, like the darn pony express. Then a few weeks later you get your title in the mail from the state. When I moved here, I transferred 4 cars from New Jersey and paid $500. Then you have the annual inspection, which is done at private garages. They're all advertising "State Inspection $29" to suck you in. They make sure you know you are paying 'pass or fail'. So if you fail, you either pay that garage to do the repairs or pay someone else the inspection fee all over again. Then they have the state emissions check which is around $50. So you can pay $80-100 annually for inspection stickers. And when I moved to PA they told me it was cheaper here! And PA has some of the most backward liquor laws I've ever witnessed! Liquor and wine is sold in STATE STORES. It's like going to state motor vehicles in other states. Everyone in that store is a state employee on the state payroll! There is a move to change this and privatize it like in the real world. I happen to be one of those Keystone staters. The places you are talking about are like a convenience store. You pay them to goto Harrisburg to get you your title, etc. Other wise you would either have to A do it online which you would then have to wait to get it through the mail or B goto Harrisburg to get it yourself, other then USPS which you still have to wait to get it in the mail. For anything other then a car title, you pay this little courier service a fee and get everything done right in there store. I dont know about you but I live a hour from Harrisburg, PA where the closest Pen Dot building is. To drive there in my gas guzzeling Durango it would cost me $40, so to me its worth the tiny little fee the courier service charges to get the stuff done there. I think its a convenience. In regards to the State stores etc, thats changing as you will now be able to purchase whisky and wine right in your super markets, walmarts etc. I see nothing wrong with either of the things mentioned. Great convenience for me. Emissions Im very lucky with as I live in one of the Counties where Emissions arnt mandatory. My parents live a half hour from me one county over and have to have emissions. Way around that, register the vehicles with the address of there one rental property in a county that doesnt require emissions haha. Emissions are crazy. Im a big fan of being able to cut the catalatic converter off and run straight pipe back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Emissions are crazy. Im a big fan of being able to cut the catalatic converter off and run straight pipe back Emission testing is ok. What's crazy is that it's mandatory for some people and not for others. What's the point of having a set of standards in place if they don't apply to everyone? Because I live in the Chicago metro area, I have to pass emissions. My daughters live in Urbana. No emissions testing there... yet as far as I know, they also breathe air... just like me. But apparently the air down there is ok to be polluted? And yes, I get it that they target the larger metro areas because that's where more cars are. But still... dirty air is dirty air, whether you live in Chicago or Podunk, Iowa. And getting back to my original point... the fact that because there's a program in place to clean up the air, we have situations where dozens and dozens of cars sit idling at emissions testing sites, all day long, six days a week, polluting the air, waiting to be emissions tested to make sure they're not polluting the air! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteowl7710 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I happen to be one of those Keystone staters. The places you are talking about are like a convenience store. You pay them to goto Harrisburg to get you your title, etc. Other wise you would either have to A do it online which you would then have to wait to get it through the mail or B goto Harrisburg to get it yourself, other then USPS which you still have to wait to get it in the mail. For anything other then a car title, you pay this little courier service a fee and get everything done right in there store. I dont know about you but I live a hour from Harrisburg, PA where the closest Pen Dot building is. To drive there in my gas guzzeling Durango it would cost me $40, so to me its worth the tiny little fee the courier service charges to get the stuff done there. I think its a convenience. In regards to the State stores etc, thats changing as you will now be able to purchase whisky and wine right in your super markets, walmarts etc. I see nothing wrong with either of the things mentioned. Great convenience for me. Having moved from Ohio to PA about 7 years ago, I can't tell you what a useless hassle the entire concept of the Notary Public PennDOT Messenger Services are. In Ohio you go to the County Title Bureau to pay the taxes and transfer the title. Amazingly they don't have to drive to Columbus. You just get handed a new title. Then you walk next door the State BMV and either get a temp tag, or transfer your old plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Having moved from Ohio to PA about 7 years ago, I can't tell you what a useless hassle the entire concept of the Notary Public PennDOT Messenger Services are. In Ohio you go to the County Title Bureau to pay the taxes and transfer the title. Amazingly they don't have to drive to Columbus. You just get handed a new title. Then you walk next door the State BMV and either get a temp tag, or transfer your old plates. Agreed. In New Jersey there are state DMV agencies located all over the state. You can get everything done there instantly. Get a new drivers license, new plates, registration and title. It's all computerized, something that PA doesn't seem to understand! And PA unemployment office? Don't get me started. I've collected unemployment in New Jersey, New York and now Pennsylvania. I've never dealt with a more broken system in my entire life! Edited March 31, 2013 by Tom Geiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 It's all computerized, something that PA doesn't seem to understand! Maybe it's the Amish people's fault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Yes, population density...similar situation in AZ...outside of the Phoenix and Tucson metro areas, the rest of state is rural empty w/ a few small towns.. Maricopa County (most of the Phoenix metro area) and Pima County (Tucson) are the only two countys I believe that require emissions in the state Its $27 dollars for testing, and we only have state operated testing sites, but the state contracts out to a private company for employees to work at the testing centers And our registration fees are based off the year of the car, so newer car, higher the fee For my 2001, for two years, it was $120 Edited March 31, 2013 by martinfan5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 And our registration fees are based off the year of the car, so newer car, higher the fee For my 2001, for two years, it was $120 Yes, Colorado does the same thing. Here in AZ my 2000 was about $120 for two years but my 2011 was about $650 for the first year, less the 2nd year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Yes, Colorado does the same thing. Here in AZ my 2000 was about $120 for two years but my 2011 was about $650 for the first year, less the 2nd year... I am not surprised that it cost $650 for a 2011, I dont remember what our 2007 cost, I think it was close to $300 for two years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my80malibu Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 In Arizona we have an answer for that the tags are different for that and if you get caught you can get ticketed Find a piece of property to buy outside the 6 county area and register your car at that address and you solved your problems! I know many people in the 6 county area who do just that and smile at the people in line at the emissions testing stations as they drive by! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooterville75 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I myself find nothing wrong with a third party place like mentioned. I always renew my stuff early so I have time to spare and dont have to worry about having it by a certain date. Convenience to me. Probably for the fact Ive lived here most my life and its what Im accustomed too. Speaking of New Jersey I do LOVE the fact a civilian cant touch a gas pump in NJ its a state law they pump your gas for ya ha ha ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwildpunk Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 They dropped emissions testing quite a few years ago here, I think the air quility is better now than it was then. what I heard is that MN realized 60% of it's pullution omes from other states and canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin T Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I almost had a cool 81' El Camino, would have been my first car. Good paint, bed, chassis, no rust, and in budget. But it wouldn't pass emissions. Sometimes life just isn't fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Sikora II Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I think going in at the end of the month was the big reason you had a long line. Of Course, Chicago is a big place and contains millions of automobiles. Here in Wisconsin, we have the same dilemma, the Milwaukee Metro area, which includes Milwaukee County Waukesha County, racine County and Kenosha County. Another nice thing they threw at us this year is they no longer have dedicated places to have your car tested. Now it's done at the dealer or mechanic shop. Tell me that isn't going to be fraught with fraudulent test data. The failure rate has already increased. Me thinks these places are selling expensive work and parts to a captive audience. Has anybody in Wisconsin had experience with the new system yet? The idea sounds stupid beyond belief; the garage/mechanic/car dealer gets paid something like $2 to test the car and they are paid by a state contractor and not the state itself. The local paper had a story about great all the new testing places thought this new program would be and they were excited about all the business it would generate for them. Then a couple months later the same shops were complaining that the $2 they get paid doesn't cover all their costs. The old program seemed to run smoothly, so of course it had to be changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Speaking of New Jersey I do LOVE the fact a civilian cant touch a gas pump in NJ its a state law they pump your gas for ya ha ha ha. I still grumble every time I pump gas in PA! It took my wife like 2 years to learn how. The first year she refused and made me fill the car for her. Only now is she competent and confident that she does it without griping or proudly telling me she did it herself! Both of my daughters calculate how to get to my house in PA and back to NJ without getting gas. Gotta admit, I do enjoy sitting in the nice warm car and watching someone else out in the cold rain pumping the gas! And note that the gas prices in NJ are among the cheapest in the nation. It is a big political issue. The two opposing sides are big oil companies (who want self service) and the Independent NJ Gasoline Dealers Association (who don't want self service). In every state that they've turned over to self service, the big oil companies have refused to renew leases and took back the stations from the independent dealers. They turn the bays into a convenience store and can run the whole operation with one person inside the store. They always would spread propaganda that gas will be cheaper with self service, but the price dips momentary and then is back up again. So who wins? Big oil! I know a lot about this topic because my family owned a service station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Oregon has the no self service thing also...I remember the first vacation I took there being surprised when someone came out to put gas in my rental car, very strange after being used to self-serve for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Oregon has the no self service thing also...I remember the first vacation I took there being surprised when someone came out to put gas in my rental car, very strange after being used to self-serve for many years. Yes, Oregon and New Jersey are the only states that have full service. With the economy in the toilet, it might be a good time to rethink it. If the entire country went full service think about how many jobs would be created. Edited April 1, 2013 by Tom Geiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrux Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Yes, Colorado does the same thing. Here in AZ my 2000 was about $120 for two years but my 2011 was about $650 for the first year, less the 2nd year... I'm trying to wrestle my mind around having to pay $650 to register a vehicle for a year... I just can't do it. What is the logic behind this registration system? It obviously is not based on GVWR like most sane registration systems. Thankfully NB does not have any sort of emissions testing whatsoever. Given that the entire provincial population is <1 million, I don't think it's something we'll ever have to worry about. Every vehicle no matter the age has to have an annual vehicle inspection, checking for safety and mechanical compliance. Specifications are more strict for heavy vehicles and buses and taxis have to be inspected every six months. License plates stay with the vehicle however if you purchase a used vehicle that has a current registration but do not have an MVI within the last 30 days you have to give up the plates. MVIs can be performed by any auto mechanic licensed with the province. The fellow that I get to do mine has a shop up the road from my parents's place; just a one-guy operation and he's not an advertised shop or anything. All auto-related services such as registration renewal, new plates, driver's license renewal is all done at a provincial service center that also handles all kinds of services. Oh, and, ALL alcohol is sold through provincial stores. There are two types: mainline stores staffed entirely by provincial employees and agency stores in a local convenience store staffed by store employees. Agency stores have to be a minimum distance from a mainline store to get a license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Suburban Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I live in Az also and have had my wagon since 92. It's been in the family since 82. Since it is older than the OBDII cars it has to go on the rollers and has the dyno test. I hat going because the test opperators never do the proper test. Since it is a 71 they do not have to do any equipment inspections. They are not even supposed to test the gas cap (that applies to 74 and newer in AZ). I do have to have a cap thou. So may times I have had ispectors fail me for the cap and I have even had an ispector try to fail me for not having an (evaporitive emmisions system) He was looking for the charcole canister but it was not factory for Plymouth in 71. I have a fuel vapor line that goes to the breather on the valve cover. Once I pointed that out to him and even showed him the vapor line. I usually wait till the end of the day and go through then. One of the stations is open till 7pm and I go in at 6:30-6:45. There is usually no line and by then they are tired and just want to go home. Since they are usually dead and have to open up the Dyno lane for me I get the experienced operator, sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Smith Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Yes, Oregon and New Jersey are the only states that have full service. With the economy in the toilet, it might be a good time to rethink it. If the entire country went full service think about how many jobs would be created. Not sure those are the jobs that mean a whole lot to the economy It's kind of annoying in Oregon and I have been reprimanded for pumping my own fuel. Why not give people a job pushing my shopping cart? What about mowing my lawn - no more on your own, you must hire somebody to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Smith Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Oh, and, ALL alcohol is sold through provincial stores. There are two types: mainline stores staffed entirely by provincial employees and agency stores in a local convenience store staffed by store employees. Agency stores have to be a minimum distance from a mainline store to get a license. Hey, I'm up in BC this week - no beer in the store??? In WA we passed legislation ALL alcohol available at retail stores! You can get beer, wine, whiskey at grocery store. Also, vehicle license fees used to based on vehicle value, so fees were $500-600. Voters reversed that and now it's about $60. It was a huge it to a lot of state funded services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 It's kind of annoying in Oregon and I have been reprimanded for pumping my own fuel. Back when this issue came up on another board, guys jumped in to defend their 'right' to pump their own gas. It's a Tom Sawyer painting the fence thing to me! And that's how the big oil lobby got self service approved in states. They put out propaganda telling folks that their state was infringing on their 'rights to pump their own fuel'. Then the dumb as rocks contingent said, "OMG, the state is taking away my rights!" and voted for it. That's like voting to do away with waitresses in restaurants. Wouldn't you rather go in the kitchen to fetch your own food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I know this is an old thread, but I took my 200 in for it's first test before going to get it's plates renewed for the year. I was surprised to find that of the 4 test points in the facility, there were 3 whole cars when I pulled up to an empty testing station! I spent a little bit more time getting tested than I did entering the property, pulling into the stall, and shutting the car off. It was more of an ordeal getting to and from there......actually, finding a parking spot once I got to the Wheaton DMV office took more time than the emissions test and going in to get the plate sticker at this office! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SfanGoch Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I'm trying to wrestle my mind around having to pay $650 to register a vehicle for a year Somebody's gotta pay for all those "free" social programs in the Great White North. Here in NYC, one goes to state licensed service stations/repair shops for inspections and emission tests. In the past, it was never a problem passing even if your car blows smoke like a steel mill. There was always a properly tuned vehicle in the shop that the mechanic, after getting his already greased palm regreased , would use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshue76 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) I realize it's an old thread but a few points on the way PA does titles, only the motoring public pays for the service. No tax money required to run all the DMV storefronts. I once needed to title a race car trailer in Ohio, they needed an unladen weight and gross weight. Apparently you can make up a number for gross but they need an exact unladen weight. The DMV worker said I had to go to a certified scale. I ask where do I find one? Her response was "I don't know". so I went to a feed mill right down the street and got it weighed on their state certified scale for the unladen, took the slip back to the DMV and was told "no good". I ask why and she says it's not certified!(all pertinent scale info was on the slip) This went on 5 times at different types of scales. Even asked a Highway Patrol Officer, he thought any state certified scale would be sufficient, but not to the Hubbard Truck World Plaza DMV. Then I saw A BIG SIGN OVER THE CAT SCALES AT A TRUCK STOP THAT SAID "CERTIFIED" bingo, there's my sign......... I'm glad not to have that breed of ineptitude in PA. The same process in Pa only requires a state certified inspection mechanic to sign off on the weights. Also there is no need for a courier fee in PA if you aren't in a hurry. The notary can mail it in and it will be mailed back to your address. You can also take the notarized paper work to your state representative and he or she will deliver and return the item from Harrisburg. Avoid notaries that give you no choice. Liquor stores, well they are like the OH and New Jerkey DMV, useless and a tax burden. As far as emissions testing on OBD II vehicles many scan tools have an emissions test function, even cheap scanners. it's a good way to avoid being ripped off. As long as these vehicles are functioning within their operating parameters they will pass. The evaporative system is a very important part of clean emissions, your fuel is evaporating constantly even when the engine isn't running. It is the easiest part of the emissions system to maintain. I completely agree with the original post, they can't realize the benefit of the testing program if it causes excess idling time. When these systems are introduced the infrastructure needs to be in place. Some legislators in PA want to eliminate emissions testing because the vast majority of cars on the road pass. Edited April 16, 2016 by dshue76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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