Where to post ?

[Greg Myers]

At some point the good of the board (members) should prevail. Tom Geiger recently tried to present some information that would benefit many but was shunted to the hinter lands.

So just what the heck is the "General" section for ? Why does it have it's own box / section at the top of the board?

I think Tom Geiger's presentation pointed out quite clearly his intent and the way the human psyche works in regards to the layout of this board. It's general, it's on top, people will look at it first.

Then again, human nature, we get all kinds of sophomoric responses to a serious matter, I.E. "i scroll down the board all the time." "Help me, I've scrolled down and I can't get up". Funny but not helpful. Then of all people a moderator chimes in with more humor (?).

OK, time to lock the thread, don't want any intelligent discussion.

[Guest G Holding]

I Read the whole thing....thats the way it is here now. i agree with BOTH sides....I would of posted it in both places, ....As the non paid mods have a mission....

FOLLOW THE RULES.......or LEAVE...

"If you have a problem with the format of this forum, or a problem with posting in the correct place, or a problem with me and how I moderate this forum, contact Gregg directly with your complaint. Unless I'm told otherwise, I will continue to run this forum the way it's supposed to be run.

Harry Pristovnik"

Edited April 15, 2013 by G Holding

[Harry P.]

So just what the heck is the "General" section for ?

For things that don't have a specific section. Birthdays. New member intros. Comments about real cars. Whatever. General topics that don't fit into any specific area.

A topic regarding info on an upcoming contest, like Tom posted, belongs in... wait for it... the section called Contests and Shows.

And I quote: For posting information regarding model contests and shows, and for show coverage.

If this isn't clear enough, PM me and I'll explain further.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I sincerely hope this isn't too sophomoric a question, but why IS it perceived as being somehow difficult to go to the "CONTESTS AND SHOWS" forum for information relating to CONTESTS AND SHOWS ?? An inquiring sophomoric mind wants to know.

Being apparently rather stupid, if I personally wanted the latest information on CONTESTS AND SHOWS, I'd look in the "CONTESTS AND SHOWS" forum. What am I missing here ?? Will enlightenment come with graduate level education?

Or maybe I should look in the "everything else" forum. Or in the "drag racing" forum, 'cause drag racing models might be in the show I'm looking for. Or maybe "Questions and Answers", to answer the question of "where and when is the show?"

No, somehow, to my pathetic little sophomoric mind, it seems reasonable to look in the "CONTESTS AND SHOWS" forum. Gee, I wish I wasn't so dumb.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

I sincerely hope this isn't too sophomoric a question, but why IS it perceived as being somehow difficult to go to the "CONTESTS AND SHOWS" forum for information relating to CONTESTS AND SHOWS ?? An inquiring sophomoric mind wants to know.

Being apparently rather stupid, if I personally wanted the latest information on CONTESTS AND SHOWS, I'd look in the "CONTESTS AND SHOWS" forum. What am I missing here ?? Will enlightenment come with graduate level education?

Or maybe i should look in the "everything else" forum. Or in the "drag racing" forum, 'cause drag racing models might be in the show I'm looking for. Or maybe "Questions and Answers", to answer the question of "where and when is the show?"

No, somehow, to my pathetic little sophomoric mind, it seems reasonable to look in the "CONTESTS AND SHOWS" forum. Gee, I wish I wasn't so dumb.

Don't give up, Bill. If you really apply yourself, you'll get it someday!

(and of course I'm kidding. Bill's post is spot on!)

[Casey]

Tom Geiger recently tried to present some information that would benefit many but was shunted to the hinter lands.

He posted information about the NNL East, which is a contest and a show. That info would only benefit people planning to attend NNL East, not everyone on the forum.

We have a Contests and Shows section so that contest and show specific discussion topics and information can be found in one place. There already two NNL East topic in that section, and Tom could've easily added his post to one of those topics, but he chose to post it in General Discussion, when it wasn't and isn't a topic for general discussion. It was specific, and was about one show, so it should've been posted in the Contests and Shows section of the forum.

Same went for another member who posted some additional information in Gen. Disc. about a Southwest U.S. show, when it should've been posted in the Contests and Shows. He even started the original topic about this exact show in the Contests and Shows section, but chose not to post the new info in that section. Posts about topics having their own existing specific forum sub-section belong in those sections, period. Posting something in Gen. Disc, when the O.P. knows it should be posted elsewhere will get it moved every time. If the O.P. has started or already replied to a topic in the correct section covering the exact same topic, s/he knows where to properly post, so there are no excuses.

[Tom Geiger]

I think Tom Geiger's presentation pointed out quite clearly his intent and the way the human psyche works in regards to the layout of this board. It's general, it's on top, people will look at it first.

Bingo! We're talking human nature. Exactly my point.

Being apparently rather stupid, if I personally wanted the latest information on CONTESTS AND SHOWS, I'd look in the "CONTESTS AND SHOWS" forum. What am I missing here ?? Will enlightenment come with graduate level education?

Ah, Bill but suppose you didn't know there was going to be a last minute change? You wouldn't know to check the buried Contest and Shows section. You show up for NNL East, you go eat dinner by yourself on Friday night, only to find out there was a party you didn't know about? When we post the original notice for the show and the after show review, we will post it under Contests and Shows. What I posted was an FYI that we need to get to as many people as possible quickly. Thus my frustration.

The Friday night event was put together at the last minute. The hotel restaurant shut down and we originally thought we'd just skip it for a year and let people be on their own. But the emails of disappointment we got, and the number of people we knew were attending for the first time, we needed to give them the full experience. So the last few weeks were spent interviewing caterers, putting together budgets, visiting the hotel to figure out the how and where, and dealing with the town on whether or not we needed to buy permits. I only felt comfortable announcing it after my visit up there on Friday. In fact, we had some bumps in the road regarding codes and such today.

So imagine my frustration that Birthday announcements and cat pictures get priority treatment over something that's important to people and the hobby!

[Guest G Holding]

As I said Tom....Post in BOTH...if lucky, lock only in general!

[Harry P.]

So imagine my frustration that Birthday announcements and cat pictures get priority treatment over something that's important to people and the hobby!

What "priority" treatment?

Different topics belong in different places, there's no "priority" treatment. My god, you make it sound as if scrolling down a web page involves hard physical labor or something. Just hit the "page down" key and you're there! For crying out loud, it's not that hard! Really!

[Tom Geiger]

We have a Contests and Shows section so that contest and show specific discussion topics and information can be found in one place. There already two NNL East topic in that section, and Tom could've easily added his post to one of those topics, but he chose to post it in General Discussion, when it wasn't and isn't a topic for general discussion. It was specific, and was about one show, so it should've been posted in the Contests and Shows section of the forum.

Again Casey, flawed logic that works in a library, but not in real life. Now you are suggesting that I ADD a post to an already buried thread down in the hinterland of non-read posts? That would have even seen less readership than IF I had started the thread down below.

Which brings me to another topic. It frustrates me (and probably others) that when someone starts a thread about a topic, that you drag up some five year old 10 page thread on the same topic and add it to it. The five year old thread is obsolete and a good number of the photos are missing because they're no longer at that web address. So now the new post author and those who started to follow that one can't find the thread, AND people are intimidated to read through 10 pages of old muck and dead jokes to get to the recent information.

The one thing that the board moderators don't understand at all is that this board is here for one reason. To sell magazines and serve the hobby. And we are the customers. There is no profit in belittling and ticking off the customers.

[Ace-Garageguy]

...Ah, Bill but suppose you didn't know there was going to be a last minute change? You wouldn't know to check the buried Contest and Shows section. You show up for NNL East, you go eat dinner by yourself on Friday night, only to find out there was a party you didn't know about? When we post the original notice for the show and the after show review, we will post it under Contests and Shows. What I posted was an FYI that we need to get to as many people as possible quickly. Thus my frustration.

I see your point, really. How about a header in the general section that simply says "NNL East Last Minute Update...details in Shows section". Then everyone's happy. Maybe.

[Casey]

Then again, human nature, we get all kinds of sophomoric responses to a serious matter, I.E. "i scroll down the board all the time." "Help me, I've scrolled down and I can't get up". Funny but not helpful. Then of all people a moderator chimes in with more humor (?).

Grilling out at the host hotel is a serious matter? Sometimes people use humor to lighten up a situation which was tense from the get-go, and sometimes that humor may be a bit pointed. This situation was easily avoided by posting in the correct place.

At some point the good of the board (members) should prevail.

The reason we have sub-section is for the good of the forum. The reason we move post is for the good of the forum. The reason we try to stress posting in the proper place is for the good of the forum. I can't stress this enough, and I can't say it any clearer. I won't speak for Harry, but everything I do as a moderator here is what I feel is in the best interest of the forum as a whole, not for what's best for individual members. Some members are not going to like that train of thought, and some members are going to resist it, some very strongly.

The sense of community Gregg has stressed since starting this forum and which he has tried to develop here is more important that what one member wants, or how one members thinks things should be done. If that sense of community and sacrificing what you want at times doesn't appeal to you, I understand, but please also understand that your personal opinions and thoughts may not fit in with what's best for the forum's membership as a whole. Every one of us has to sacrifice a little bit for the benefit of everyone, and not all of us are good at doing that. There is no perfect solution, no Hollywood ending where every member is 100% happy and satisfied, so we try to do what's best for the forum as a community, and that means some members aren't going to be happy here. Sorry to be blunt, but I think we're all capable of handling honesty and deciding of we each want to be a positive member of this forum and community.

[Guest G Holding]

Every one of us has to sacrifice a little bit for the benefit of everyone, and not all of us are good at doing that

Sorry to be blunt, but I think we're all capable of handling honesty and deciding of we each want to be a positive member of this forum and community.

I guess you missed the point Tom made, wasn't self serving at all....just a TIMELY note he wanted seen NOW

That would of HELPED everyone....AND I think this is NOT the Island way of life...Mahalo !

[Casey]

Again Casey, flawed logic that works in a library, but not in real life. Now you are suggesting that I ADD a post to an already buried thread down in the hinterland of non-read posts? That would have even seen less readership than IF I had started the thread down below.

Tom, not everyone thinks and uses the forum the same way you do. If they use the "red only new posts" feature, guess which new post they are going to read? YOURS.

This whole idea of the further down the page a topic is, the less reads it gets is simply not true. The proof is in the post counts in the Community Builds sections, which is the fifth-to-last section on the forum. The numbers don't lie and they counter exactly what you're citing as proof of "nobody goes down there." We discussed this the last time you brought this up a few months ago, so no need to repeat it. You don't like it? Fine, I understand and respect your opinion, but the forum isn't going to change to suit your individual opinion. You have to either accept that at some point or move on.

[Quick GMC]

Again Casey, flawed logic that works in a library, but not in real life. Now you are suggesting that I ADD a post to an already buried thread down in the hinterland of non-read posts? That would have even seen less readership than IF I had started the thread down below.

Which brings me to another topic. It frustrates me (and probably others) that when someone starts a thread about a topic, that you drag up some five year old 10 page thread on the same topic and add it to it. The five year old thread is obsolete and a good number of the photos are missing because they're no longer at that web address. So now the new post author and those who started to follow that one can't find the thread, AND people are intimidated to read through 10 pages of old muck and dead jokes to get to the recent information.

The one thing that the board moderators don't understand at all is that this board is here for one reason. To sell magazines and serve the hobby. And we are the customers. There is no profit in belittling and ticking off the customers.

I know I'm new here, but I frequent a lot of other forums on a lot of other subjects. Posting in any thread, or starting a new one, will bring it to the top, depending on how you have your preferences set. Start a new thread? it's at the top. Post in a 10 year old thread? It's at the top. Even if the photos are gone, the thread goes up. People will see that there is a new response and generally click on it.

Yes, you will get more views and more responses in a thread at the top of the general section than the top of a specific show-oriented section. How many of those people do you think actually NEEDED that info? Probably less than 1% if any at all. Someone that NEEDS the info will go to the appropriate place. More attention to your post doesn't mean anyone benefited from it, it just means you got more attention.

Your comment about being for profit and whining that you are the customer is ludicrous. I don't subscribe, I don't plan to. I came here to learn how to build better models and hopefully someday help people build better models. I want to learn more about nostalgic racing etc. People that constantly whine and even mention "being the customer" and complain about not getting their way is just childish. It's not your forum. Go start your own forum with your own money and have nothing BUT a general forum and post everything in there if that's what you really want.

[Casey]

I guess you missed the point Tom made, wasn't self serving at all....just a TIMELY note he wanted seen NOW

That would of HELPED everyone....AND I think this is NOT the Island way of life...Mahalo !

I guess you missed my reply:

He posted information about the NNL East, which is a contest and a show. That info would only benefit people planning to attend NNL East, not everyone on the forum.

Tom has a personal interest in the NNL East, if you've seen the flyer. Yes, it's his job to promote the event, and this forum provides the opportunity for promotion, and even provides a dedicated section for Contests and Shows, so use it to promote your contest or show.

[Casey]

A member has requested this topic be locked, and I think we've answered Greg's question and clarified our stance on the matter. My PM box is ALWAYS open, and I guarantee I will read whatever you have to say, though I may not agree with what is said.