Lacquer VS. Enamel OR Zero VS. Scale Finishes

[Quick GMC]

First of all, I'm not looking for a debate about which is "better". It all comes down to user preference and technique, IMO.

What I am looking for is a little help from the more experienced painters. This is long and boring so bear with me.

1. I suck at painting bodies. Partly because I suck (ok, mostly), but I think partly because I'm not using the right stuff.

2. My issue: grainy, sandy paint, or thick, orange peeled paint.

I started out with a Dual Action Paasche siphon feed and a Badger compressor (the cheap $50 one without a power switch). Over the years I have ALMOST completed a bunch of models, but always put them away because I destroy the bodies. I almost quit and sold everything because of this, but I am determined to get this figured out.

Over the last couple of years, the airbrush has been getting worse. I actually have two of the same. Both were getting worse. Lumpier paint, more inconsistent atomizing etc. I was convinced it was the compressor not being able to keep up. I replaced the compressor with a GREX compressor. Identical problems.

I asked around on the internet for a while and everyone had a theory, but no solid help. Finally, the RC helicopter guy at the hobby shop overheard me and said Paasche has seals that will deteriorate with lacquer thinner, which is what I use to clean and thin. This makes total sense. Slow deterioration and increasingly poor performance over the years.

I replaced with it with a GREX, which my wife was totally not okay with.

So now I have a brand new Grex airbrush and matching compressor. MUCH better, but at the same time I have the same problem. The first was just adjustment. Going from a horrible siphon feed, under powered setup to a nice gravity feed, efficient system was a bit to get used to. After I played with it a bit, I got better. I was able to get a fairly nice coat of Zero down, however it still had to be sanded. I cannot find that sweet spot. It's either too thick and wet and I get orange peel, or too dry and I get a grainy, hard texture.

It is hot where i live. Winter is in the 60's, summer is 105-115 (and up). I have a homemade paint booth with t a vent fan for the fumes, but it is next to a window, on the side of the house that the sun hits during the day. This is not likely to change anytime soon.

I hate enamel with a passion. I hate waiting for things to dry, however I am more than happy to use it if it will help.

after all that, my question is will an enamel work better for me than a lacquer? When I use Zero, I can touch it within 30 seconds and it's dry. I sand it within 40 minutes. I know enamels will take at least a week or so before I can touch it, but EVERY paint job I am doing right now is getting sanded from 3200, 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000 and 12000 before polishing, not to mention the same deal with the clear. I don't mind sanding and polishing, but it's taking the fun out of it and I am jealous of all these nice, wet paint jobs I am seeing on here.

Thanks for your time.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I'm NOT an airbrush guru, but I'm a pretty decent 1:1 painter with 40 years off and on, and from this ONE SENTENCE:

" It's either too thick and wet and I get orange peel, or too dry and I get a grainy, hard texture."

...I'd first think your viscosity is too high. Too thick, add more thinner. If it's wet and you're getting orange peel, it's not flowing out enough to self-level, MAYBE because it's just too viscous. A grainy, hard texture can be symptomatic of the same thing, just that in that case, you MAY be shooting from a little farther away, and the solvents are flashing BEFORE the paint hits the body...again preventing the paint from flowing out, but in this case partly-dried droplets of paint make the surface grainy.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[kurth]

Ace-Garageguy summed it up pretty well. When I learned to paint bodies with enamel in the 90s (before I discovered lacquer) I found I had to thin the paint more than I though and move closer to the body. I can not really explain, it is just sort of muscle memory for me. If you start with a slightly thicker mix for the first few coats, it does not draw away from the body lines, then to build up the gloss, I use a thinner mix and move a little closer and get a very smooth finish with MM enamels. Like I said I do this mostly by "feel" and I "eyball" the thinning of the paint. If I get it right, it requires only a minimum of polishing.

If you can adjust the pressure with your compressor, you can manipulate it until the paint flows just right. Again I do this by feel. Remember to use light coats, do not be tempted to go to thick too fast.

I have had the same batch of needles for my H for 20+ years and never had to replace a seal, and I Use lacquer thinner and sometimes even acetone to clean up. The H with a 3 or a 5 tip can produce beautiful finishes. I find a double action to be a little bit fiddly for painting bodies, but I love the double action for painting little parts where varying the trigger helps to get just the right amount of paint on irregular parts.

Like any thing else PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE . Then, before you know it you will be a pro at painting bodies.

[Bluemiles22]

Try using a dehydrator for enamels. If you cut the paint with lacquer thinner, you can color coat, wet sand, and then clear coat within a 24 hour period, maybe even less with the dehydrator. Also stick to whatever system your comfortable with that gives you the best results. I personally prefer the enamels for color and testors gloss laquer in the bottle for clear coat. I've tried tamiya spray cans and a couple of projects with hok but didn't get the results I wanted because I wasn't familiar with the product. There's a learning curve for everything so stay with whatever gives you the most consistent results.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Bluemiles22

[426hemiman]

I also use a Grex and love it. I use about 28 lb. of pressure and the number 3 tip. Your primer has to be smooth. I use 3600 polishing cloth . Paint should be the consistency of 2 percent milk. i only use lacquer paints. A trick i use is to spray 876 lacquer thinner as the last coat. If you have a problem email or pm me. You have to have patience and practice. If you can join a club do it. Go to shows - ask questions that is how i started .

Hope this helps. Castrol Super Clean can be your best friend when you are starting out.

Bob

Bob's Paint, etc.

[Quick GMC]

I also use a Grex and love it. I use about 28 lb. of pressure and the number 3 tip. Your primer has to be smooth. I use 3600 polishing cloth . Paint should be the consistency of 2 percent milk. i only use lacquer paints. A trick i use is to spray 876 lacquer thinner as the last coat. If you have a problem email or pm me. You have to have patience and practice. If you can join a club do it. Go to shows - ask questions that is how i started .

Hope this helps. Castrol Super Clean can be your best friend when you are starting out.

Bob

Bob's Paint, etc.

This is why it's so frustrating. I sand my primer. I sand my paint. Clear is still textured. I tried 12 psi, 30 psi, .3mm, .5mm no thinner, little thinner, a lot of thinner.

I'm going to order some Scale finishes soon. I'm hoping the enamel will be better as it will have more time to settle out into a flat finish before hardening, like the lacquer.

[Bluemiles22]

If you want to get a perfect finish your gonna have to wet sand a little. I hate wet sanding but I find that it's unavoidable (at least for me). The best I hope for when painting is that it's kept to a minimum.

[Quick GMC]

If you want to get a perfect finish your gonna have to wet sand a little. I hate wet sanding but I find that it's unavoidable (at least for me). The best I hope for when painting is that it's kept to a minimum.

I don't mind sanding, but I always have to start with 3200 grit, sometimes 1500 Tamiya. It's just too much. If I could go 4000 lightly and up from there, I'd be perfectly content with that.

[Guest G Holding]

Donn Yost

No more to say. Spend the 25.00, and sit back learn and enjoy. I'm a lacquer guy, I loved the technique so much....I did 2 enamel jobs, Donns way. I used my trusty badger 155, BUT otherwise Donns way. NO Orange Peel, just a smooth glassy finish....BEFORE the clear was mixed. 3 days later the gloss was unreal and the pearl ex made the color explode.

Stick with one paint, one pressure, one viscosity.....2% milk will show you how thin. then move in and out....until you find your sweet spot. You will know by the way it lays down...

DO not keep changing the dishwater......you need soap....or the WHOLE process together is the key. Change one thing and see what you get.STOP and SEE what it did...adjust from there, by ONE change...you will get it, BUT buy the old mans DVD.

[Bluemiles22]

Yup what he said lol. Donns DVD is the way to go. My paint jobs improved drastically after watching it.