How to Remove "Ghost Trim"

[mustang1989]

 Everything was going to plan. I sanded off all of the molded in badges and emblems to where the body was as smooth as a baby's bottom. I then primed this Monogram Camaro one day prior to applying the basecoat and it turned out perfect. Then something weird happened when I applied the color base coat. The sanded off SMOOTH emblems came back ???!!! What tha heck man?

Here's what it did:

In short ............what happened? I've stripped  the paint because I got it too thick but want to go back with the same color. I've never encountered this before and know that this can be fixed but right now I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how. I primed with the Tamiya gray primer and shot this automotive lacquer based coat over it. From what I understand I'm supposed to use a sealer between the primer and the lacquer. Is it that or the style of paint I used? Can somebody shed some light on this one for me? Thanks, Joe 

Using this Automotive paint that I got on ebay:

Edited March 5, 2017 by mustang1989

[StevenGuthmiller]

This is a very common problem.

The answer is proper sealing.

This can be achieved in a number of different ways.

Personally, I never have this problem, just making sure that there is plenty of primer laid down, & the first couple of color coats go on very light with ample time to cure between coats.

There are a number of different sealers that you could try as well, but I'm not all that familiar with them.

Plenty of primer & a light hand with the color coats will do the same thing.

 

Steve

[drsnapper55]

I've read that you can apply some liquid glue, like Tamiya's cement or Tenax, sand after drying, and then proceed with primer and paint as you normally would.  I always try to use a good bit of quality primer, but sounds like you have that covered with Tamiya brand which I like too.  I like Duplicolor as well.  I've also heard fellow modelers in our club suggest putting some Mr. Surfacer over areas where you removed emblems.  With the problem area you have there, you might get away with masking that area off and doing some reworking instead of redoing the whole body.  Nice color btw.

Edited March 6, 2017 by drsnapper55

[Muncie]

The thinner in automotive lacquer color coats will soften a lacquer primer - once it gets thru to the plastic, it starts affecting the body work or single stage lacquer base putties under the primer.

I prefer a sealer after the primer and then start with light coats of primer so they dry before the thinner gets to the plastic - but it's still possible to see some read thru if I start applying too much paint too quickly.  Your paint supplier may have some advice or a good sealer for their paint.

Plenty of information here information here in Bill Geary's tutorial  -http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/22834-1949-mercury/

more here ----

[mustang1989]

I appreciate everyone's responses so far. I'll be looking into the links and advice. Thanks fellas..............I'll post back here when I get it ironed out.

[Dodge Driver]

Brushing with Plastruct liquid cement followed by sanding stopped the ghosting for me.

[Greg Myers]

What's the best / easiest way to make sure there will be no ghost lines when side trim is removed?

[crazyjim]

I've used Future and liquid glues.  They work fine with cooler paint like Tru-Color but the ghosting comes back with hotter paint like HOK.

[Dave Ambrose]

Ambroid liquid glue works well for me. Brush is over the removed trim and watch it reappear again. Might take a couple of go-rounds to get it really gone. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, Greg Myers said:

What's the best / easiest way to make sure there will be no ghost lines when side trim is removed?

As with most things in life, the "best" and the "easiest" tend to be mutually exclusive.

Repeatedly priming and sanding is the only really effective way to do it with rattlecans, and eventually, the ghosting will stay down. It is, however, necessary to take precautions to prevent excessive film build in surrounding areas. Backtaping is strongly recommended.

As usual, I speak from experience. This Olds hood was ghosting badly where the ornament had been removed. Multiple primer / sand / primer cycles cured it 100%, enough to be shot with hot Duplicolor color over soft late-model Revell plastic.

If you have access to spray equipment, another sure-fire way is to shoot your work with a two-part catalyzed primer. It WILL kill any tendency for work to bleed through...but because of its extremely high-build characteristic, care must also be taken to avoid getting it on way too thick. This is a Nason urethane primer shot over extensive bodywork. Years later, zero ghosting.

 

 

 

 

 

[crazyjim]

I thought Ambroid went bye-bye along with Tenax?

[Snake45]

Take off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. 

If you have a Dremel, you can grind the offending item off, and a little into the meat, and if you don't, you can accomplish the same thing by scraping/carving/gouging with an Xacto. Then you fill the gouge with superglue or superglue gel, file/sand flush, then prime and paint as normal. 

This might also work: Sand the thing off. Prime. If it ghosts, hit the ghosted area with superglue, sand flush, reprime, repeat as necessary. 

[Casey]

5 hours ago, Greg Myers said:

What's the best / easiest way to make sure there will be no ghost lines when side trim is removed?

Maybe one of the mods can merge all of the previous posts discussing this exact problem?

 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

Lot's of primer & sealer.

I can't remember ever having a ghosting problem.

Most likely due to the fact that I'm not stingy with the primer.

 

Steve

[JohnU]

On 9/19/2018 at 11:30 AM, crazyjim said:

I thought Ambroid went bye-bye along with Tenax?

Weld-on number 3 is pretty much the same thing 

Edited September 23, 2018 by JohnU
Correction for Wrong product

[peteski]

8 hours ago, JohnU said:

Weld-on number 3 is pretty much the same thing 

That, and I seem to recall that Micro-Mark sells their own version of Ambroid.

[Fat Brian]

Since Tenax is gone I've been using brake cleaner decanted into an old Tenax bottle. You've got to get a certain kind with a chemical I can't remember the name of in it, I'll post a link to it once I'm back at my computer, but it works just as good as the old stuff and you get a year or twos worth of it for the price of one bottle of Tenax.

[Snake45]

4 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

Since Tenax is gone I've been using brake cleaner decanted into an old Tenax bottle. You've got to get a certain kind with a chemical I can't remember the name of in it, I'll post a link to it once I'm back at my computer, but it works just as good as the old stuff and you get a year or twos worth of it for the price of one bottle of Tenax.

I believe the main active ingredient in Tenax, Pro Weld, etc, is methylene chloride. 

[Deuces]

You say meth????

[SfanGoch]

39 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I believe the main active ingredient in Tenax, Pro Weld, etc, is methylene chloride. 

[Art Anderson]

23 hours ago, JohnU said:

Weld-on number 3 is pretty much the same thing 

I got my pint can of Weld-On #3 at our local plastics supply house, one pint can cost me all of about $6 or so, perhaps 5 yrs ago.  I just use a "basting" squeeze bulb thingie, that is readily available in the kitchen utensils aisle of any "Big Box" store, even your favorite supermarket, to transfer that from the pint can to my glue bottle!

Art

[Fat Brian]

6 hours ago, Snake45 said:

I believe the main active ingredient in Tenax, Pro Weld, etc, is methylene chloride. 

Yep, the brake cleaner needed for a replacement has Perchloroethylene in it. Not exactly the same stuff but it does the job.

[Can-Con]

Airbrushing on a solid coat of Zinzer "BIN" between a light coat of primer and color coats works for me. 

You can get the BIN in a spray can but it comes out very heavy. 

These two were painted with HOK laquer, no ghosting from removed trim or bodywork , and there was extensive body work.

[Deuces]

Love the Riv.... ??

[Casey]

On 9/19/2018 at 3:58 PM, Casey said:

Maybe one of the mods can merge all of the previous posts discussing this exact problem?

Thank you. Super easy to find the topic discussing ghosting now.