Why not these things

[Ben]

Just a lil bulldozer trivia thrown in to make your day! The world's largest production bulldozer is the Komatsu 575 (of Which Kibri makes a kit in 1/87 scale) but the biggest dozer ever built was the ACCO.

[Ben]

I agree, a huge D11R kit would not sell very well. He asked what I would like to see made into a kit. From a business standpoint, I would say a Cat D9R would sell much better. It's smaller and can be hauled on a large lowboy without being broken down and it looks very similar to the D11R. I would like to see a full detailed 1/24 kit of a D11R but I know there would be a much better chance of a D9R being attempted.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Ben

[Bennyg]

Talking of new kits, how well are the moebius truck kits (lonestar & prostar) selling? I guess the lonestar sold well other wise they would not have bothered with the prostar.

Ben

[Richard Bartrop]

i'm not asking why Revell or Revell AG, as it may be, produced these kits, I'm saying how did ANY kit manufacturer make the decision to produce a kit of this size and expense? Yes, the power plant was from many, many years ago but even back then, how did Revell know it was a wise investment to produce a huge model of such an obsure subject? Were there any, model power plant builders or groups back then???? Seems very unlikely.

Seeing as how AMT used to be in the promotional business, things like the Gremlin and Pinto probably got kitted not because they thought there was a burning demand for kits of either, but because AMC and Ford wanted something to promote their new cars in the dealers, and once they had the moulds, AMT figured they might as well sell some kits. It's entirely possible the power plant and excavator had a similar genesis. So it would seem the your best bet for a bulldozer model would be to somehow convince someone like Caterpillar that they want to get into the toy business.

[Bill J]

Doesn't Gunze Sangyo already offer a Daytona coupe? I thought someone else mentioned a new one coming out as well, I'm pretty sure it Accurate Miniatures. Or did they go out of business?

Gunze-Sangyo did make a Daytona coupe at one time. It was curbside had a rubber interior/seats and you had to make most of the understructure from raw materials in the kit. The body was quite nice. Several aftermarket kits around, all very well done and very expensive, up to $300+. It'd be nice to see a kit with some detail at a normal price range. I have not seen one of the Gunze-Sangyo kits for at least 20 years. I have one but had to recently buy some aftermarket parts to make it more realistic. Almost as pricey as some of the resin & multimedia kits.

[Modelbuilder Mark]

Styrene/resin tires are easier to detail. Does a plastic model car really have a need for rubber tires?

Well yes, if you want to hear the scale squeel of rubber across the work bench! vroom vroom

[martinfan5]

Well yes, if you want to hear the scale squeel of rubber across the work bench! vroom vroom

:lol:

[Modelbuilder Mark]

Not sure of the kit sources, but you can find construction stuff from time to time, hereon the forums there are some builders. Here is a cool Payloader someone did.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78939&hl=

[MachinistMark]

And you make up the vast sum of .......one.

Yes, the numbers do back up those kits being manufactured but they had to be initially produced at one time and I'm sure nobody back then, knew they would always be good sellers. I even hear car guys complaining about many certain car kits being produced so often, they're sick of seeing them and asking for something new.

Thinking he makes up the sum of...the vast majority of modelers.

[raildogg]

Ben said this, "I do have blueprints to build one from scratch though." O.K. Ben, would you consent to sending me copies of those prints and I'll try to build one for myself. If you agree PM me and we'll talk. Thank you

[sjordan2]

Ben, from another angle, what new construction equipment kit do you think would be a big enough seller to justify the kit company's investment?

Edited September 1, 2013 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

Ben, from another angle, what new construction equipment kit do you think would be a big enough seller to justify the kit company's investment?

Ultimately it's not the kits that Ben thinks would sell well enough to make a profit (no offense, Ben)... but the kits that the manufacturers think would sell well enough to make a profit. And on that point the manufacturers have spoken.

[Ben]

Thinking he makes up the sum of...the vast majority of modelers.

[Ben]

Ben said this, "I do have blueprints to build one from scratch though." O.K. Ben, would you consent to sending me copies of those prints and I'll try to build one for myself. If you agree PM me and we'll talk. Thank you

Hi Richard, I would but I have no way to scan them.

[Ben]

Ben, from another angle, what new construction equipment kit do you think would be a big enough seller to justify the kit company's investment?

I would say either a Cat D9R or similar type modern dozer or maybe a front end loader.

[Ben]

Ultimately it's not the kits that Ben thinks would sell well enough to make a profit (no offense, Ben)... but the kits that the manufacturers think would sell well enough to make a profit. And on that point the manufacturers have spoken.

Nope....no fair Harry, you said you were done after the last post you made!!!!

[Ben]

[LDO]

iI

Thinking he makes up the sum of...the vast majority of modelers.

Nope. That's not what he said. He said he thinks I speak for the vast majority of modelers.

AMT made a model of a big dump truck. How many other companies have made a model of that same dump truck, or any dump truck? Now, how many different models have been released, any body style/variant, any scale, any manufacturer of, the 1932 Ford, Bf-109, FW-190, P-51, Tiger tank, King Tiger tank, Sherman tank, 1957 Chevy, 1969 Camaro?

[Ben]

iI

Nope. That's not what he said. He said he thinks I speak for the vast majority of modelers.

AMT made a model of a big dump truck. How many other companies have made a model of that same dump truck, or any dump truck? Now, how many different models have been released, any body style/variant, any scale, any manufacturer of, the 1932 Ford, Bf-109, FW-190, P-51, Tiger tank, King Tiger tank, Sherman tank, 1957 Chevy, 1969 Camaro?

Ummmm, AMT made two dump truck kits and added parts to one to turn it into a snowplow. ERTL made two dump kits, the S Series and the Paystar, Italeri made a Freightliner dump truck, Revell made a Kenworth dump truck.......try again.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Ben

[Ben]

iI

Nope. That's not what he said. He said he thinks I speak for the vast majority of modelers.

AMT made a model of a big dump truck. How many other companies have made a model of that same dump truck, or any dump truck? Now, how many different models have been released, any body style/variant, any scale, any manufacturer of, the 1932 Ford, Bf-109, FW-190, P-51, Tiger tank, King Tiger tank, Sherman tank, 1957 Chevy, 1969 Camaro?

Also, the "vast majority" of modelers are military modelers. Gee.........they just had a new dozer kit made in their primary scale. How sad is it that not a single one will be sold?? It's just terrible!

[LDO]

Ummmm, AMT made two dump truck kits and added parts to one to turn it into a snowplow. ERTL made two dump kits, the Series and the Paystar, Italeri made a Freightliner dump truck, Revell made a Kenworth dump truck.......try again.

Wow. I had no idea. I'd be willing to bet that most modelers also had no idea. Wanna know why? It's because dump trucks are boring.

WRT to the Meng bulldozer; we don't know yet how well it will do. I'd say it's a safe bet that people who want to see a 1/24 bulldozer aren't jumping for joy over an armored version, in the wrong scale, with an MSRP of $90.

[Art Anderson]

Ultimately it's not the kits that Ben thinks would sell well enough to make a profit (no offense, Ben)... but the kits that the manufacturers think would sell well enough to make a profit. And on that point the manufacturers have spoken.

Harry, and all here:

I should have mentioned this days ago in this discussion:

To understand what I'm laying out here, keep one thing in mind, and that is that producing injection-molded plastic model kits is a mass production enterprise. As such, as with any mass production company or industry, the rapid movement of products (plastic model kits in this case) to the end consumer simply has to happen, otherwise, why bother to deal in anything that is to be mass-produced. This means that "The Law of Large Numbers" simply does drive manufacturing decisions, as well as marketing decisions all along the way.

To "blame" model kit manufacturers for somehow "ignoring" a product area, or even potential customers for same, exclusively is to forget two other steps in the process (the link if you will) between manufacturers and us as modelers; and those are (1) the wholesalers and (2) the retailers (your LHS, or wherever you buy your model kits).

A LHS most generally gets model kits through one or more wholesale distributors. This is a well-established process, going back well over a century. Local merchants (not the Big Box outfits, but the smaller, locally owned specialized retailers) rely on wholesalers to provide the warehousing function, allowing them to buy in bulk, and distribute to them and their colleagues as their needs for merchandise dictate. That's been the most cost-efficient way of stocking a retail store ever since the late 19th Century--a local merchant, such as your LHS doesn't have to have a huge upstairs stockroom, buy everything in case lots--stock it back and hope that they can sell it all before it becomes "dead stock" (unsalable). So, model kit manufacturers simply have to convince (sell) the wholesaler first. Next, model kit manufacturers have to "sell" the local hobby shops, along with the relative handful of mail/phone/internet dealers that the products they have produced and plan to produce will sell for them as well, which leads to the third step--convincing US as modelers that such-and-such is so cool, so neat, that we simply must have at least one.

But, the first line of acceptance of a new product (and by definition, the first line of resistance to any new product) remains the wholesaler. Virtually all of them (and this step also includes the corporate "buyers" for the huge chain stores as well!) are very well versed in their product lines, their market--they have access to not days, but literally years (even decades) of sales data on which they at least partly base whatever decisions they have to make. And, those buyers, either in wholesaling or mass-merchandising had better be on top of their game lest they find themselves being escorted out of the building to walk the unemployment lines (after all, they are charged with the responsibility of investing their employers' money in merchandise that will sell in whatever time frame is expected, profitably!).

Second, your local hobby dealer has to make the same decisions: "Do I lay in this new item because I know it will sell (based on past experience) and if yes, then how many should I order up front in order to miss out on as few sales as possible (again in what to that dealer seems to be a reasonable time frame!)?" A relatively new hobby shop owner might be overly cautious, or he/she might make buying decisions on a "gut feeling", perhaps almost flying blind--but with capital always being more scarce than any business person would like, caution almost always is a watch-word. Key here is profitability in a reasonable time frame. A mass merchant, such as any of the "-Marts" generally expects merchandise delivered to any of their stores to go through the cash register in 30-45 days, while a local hobby shop might say, within perhaps 3 months or so. Because their available capital is always much less than what they potentially might sell of any item in a year, all merchants deal with "inventory turnover", meaning how many times can they sell that say $100 worth of merchandise in a given year.

These are pretty much the basic factors with which any wholesaler or retailer simply must work. A wholesaler (and the mass merchants simply do their own wholesaling--that's why, for example, Walmart has huge warehouses positioned strategically all around the World and their own truck line to move stock from warehouse to individual stores) deals in quantities of case lots (generally a dozen per case with a 1/25 scale model car, usually 6 per case of larger kits, such as trucks). They also want to see those case lots move out quickly, even though they may break down cases (and generally do!) for hobby shops buying kits in 1's, 2's or 3's. Larger hobby shops, well established, and with a good amount of experience, may well order in new kits by the case--but only "onesie-twosie" with existing kits ordered for replacement stock.

So, with all this middlemen, etc., why don't model kit manufacturers just bypass the distribution channel, and just sell to us direct? Simple: They need to sell a production run of perhaps 30-50 thousand of a kit quickly, to put money back in the bank to pay their bills, and hopefully fund the next new model kit.

So, a lot of resistance out there to some of the types of model kits some as almost insisting on as sure winners, comes from links in this distribution chain other than the local hobby shop owner, and indeed perhaps even his or her customers. Almost always, with a new, almost "off the wall" type of model kit, for which there is either no previous sales experience on which to gauge possible sales of it OR historical data which shows that previous model kits of the same or similar TYPES of kit subjects did not sell either adequately or quickly enough to meet the needs of the manufacturer, the wholesaler, or the end retailer meet with resistance up to and including outright rejection.

Art

[Ben]

Wow. I had no idea. I'd be willing to bet that most modelers also had no idea. Wanna know why? It's because dump trucks are boring.

WRT to the Meng bulldozer; we don't know yet how well it will do. I'd say it's a safe bet that people who want to see a 1/24 bulldozer aren't jumping for joy over an armored version, in the wrong scale, with an MSRP of $90.

Yea, you had no idea because all you care about is your subject matter. You don't have a clue of what model builders as whole want. And yes, your right, we don't know, just yet how well the Meng dozer will do but hey........guess what........the kit is already been made!

[Deano]

Ben. Seriously, why do you keep haranguing us with these "you don't KNOW what will sell" and "how can you be certain it won't sell" posts? This forum is, by and large, car modelers with some heavy truck modelers thrown in for variety. WE are not the people who make the production decisions and you overestimate the importance of internet forums in the decision making process. Contact the manufacturers; make your case with them. I can't speak for anyone else but for me, this thread has ceased to be entertaining.

I can tell you this for fact, and this is a data point of exactly "one", the only construction machinery kit I would buy is a skid loader (and I think there is a 1/24 or 1/25 die cast available). Farm equipment, I'm a vintage fan; give me an old Farm-all, Ford 8N or 9N or Oliver series 66 Orchard tractor (they have the hugest, coolest skirts). But, alas, NOBODY is making them that I am aware of. Beyond that, there's not a lot in the construction/farm category that I'd be willing to spend money on

[LDO]

Art-

This discussion is not about facts and rationality. It's about how we need to buy bulldozers as cargo for big rigs that we have no interest in.