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What Irked You Today?


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7 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

I am surprised you were able to put that many miles on before they needed replaced. Old Ed from work had one that his wife drove. it was in every 30 to 40 thousand miles for those. That was the only problem they had with it so he lived with it for a few replacements. 

Lucky I guess? I don't know why, but you would simply think that a piece of rubber bonded to metal sitting between two pieces of metal would last a lot longer. It just sits there in my view so I guess there is something going on that rips them apart.

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Trying to remove chrome from a Revell funny car model. Used to be bleach would do it in a matter of minutes but lately I have to use Bleche White. This chrome is not coming off with either of them. Guess I'll have to break down and buy some oven cleaner. Hate using that because it's messy and nasty.

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20 hours ago, chasracer said:

...How about a Chrysler PT Cruiser with just 66000 miles on it and the lower a-arm bushings are completely shot already? I mean maybe I could see it at 100,000 but 66k sure does seem like a short life to me. Checked the dealer cost at around $800 for both sides (left is a bit worse than right side).  Car overall is in good condition so guess I have to bite the bullet as the car is a pain to drive on any road with minor roughness to it.

 

9 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

I am surprised you were able to put that many miles on before they needed replaced. Old Ed from work had one that his wife drove. it was in every 30 to 40 thousand miles for those. That was the only problem they had with it so he lived with it for a few replacements. 

I believe there's either some confusion as to terminology, or somebody's just getting dishonestly hosed.

While it is certainly possible for control arm bushings to fail at 66k, in my experience, it's highly unlikely unless the car is abused, hitting every chuckhole and speed bump going stupid fast.

I have a client with a 2001 PT Cruiser I've maintained from new. 200,000 miles on the clock.

What is notorious for failing early on those is the SWAY BAR bushings, NOT the control arm bushings.

The sway bar bushings literally fall out, allowing the sway bar to rattle and clunk against the frame so bad you'd swear the thing was falling apart under you.

A pair of bushings is about $40, and take an hour to put in.

Zip, zap, fixed, feels like a new car again...still at 200,000 miles.

Sway bar end links, also cheap and easy to replace, are also often mis-diagnosed as control arm bushings.

Inner tie-rod ends on PTs are another early source of front end rattles and shakes over rough roads, and tipsy steering. 

In the rear, there is a Watts-link that locates the rear axle side-to-side. The center bushing in those fails early too, again making you think the car is disintegrating on anything but a glass-smooth road. The entire link is about $50, a little harder to do than the front sway-bar bushings.

This is another one of those areas where being able to do your own work can save you lotsa money, especially considering how many dishonest and just flat incompetent "mechanics" are out there now.

When the control-arm bushings do finally go, complete control arms are available with bushings included. Most shops and DIYers are simply not technically competent to replace just the bushings, which requires using a press, so the high cost is for replacing the complete arms.

NOS MOPAR parts are still available for these cars, and in most cases, they are FAR superior to cheap Chinese-made knockoffs.

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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1 hour ago, TonyK said:

Trying to remove chrome from a Revell funny car model. Used to be bleach would do it in a matter of minutes but lately I have to use Bleche White. This chrome is not coming off with either of them. Guess I'll have to break down and buy some oven cleaner. Hate using that because it's messy and nasty.

Have you tried household ammonia? 

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3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

I believe there's either some confusion as to terminology, or somebody's just getting dishonestly hosed.

While it is certainly possible for control arm bushings to fail at 66k, in my experience, it's highly unlikely unless the car is abused, hitting every chuckhole and speed bump going stupid fast.

I have a client with a 2001 PT Cruiser I've maintained from new. 200,000 miles on the clock.

What is notorious for failing early on those is the SWAY BAR bushings, NOT the control arm bushings.

I was actually shown the ripped bushings on the rear portion of each lower control arm. Sway bar stuff looked okay but it will be included in the replacement as it has to be removed or moved to replace the control arms.

 

Inner tie-rod ends on PTs are another early source of front end rattles and shakes over rough roads, and tipsy steering. 

Steering is nice and tight, doesn't shake - what I hear is a "thumping" coming from the front.

In the rear, there is a Watts-link that locates the rear axle side-to-side. The center bushing in those fails early too, again making you think the car is disintegrating on anything but a glass-smooth road. The entire link is about $50, a little harder to do than the front sway-bar bushings.

Rear of car is quiet so doubt if that is a problem - yet.

When the control-arm bushings do finally go, complete control arms are available with bushings included. Most shops and DIYers are simply not technically competent to replace just the bushings, which requires using a press, so the high cost is for replacing the complete arms.

The estimate included the complete new control arms with attending bushings, etc.

NOS MOPAR parts are still available for these cars, and in most cases, they are FAR superior to cheap Chinese-made knockoffs.

This is a Chrysler dealer so I would certainly assume that OEM parts are going to be used.

thanks for the info - Charles

 

 

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34 minutes ago, chasracer said:

I was actually shown the ripped bushings on the rear portion of each lower control arm. Sway bar stuff looked okay but it will be included in the replacement as it has to be removed or moved to replace the control arms.

 

It's entirely possible for those rear bushings to appear "ripped" and be perfectly serviceable...which means functionally fine.

And the sway bar bushings can look fine to the uninitiated, and rattle and bang to beat all hell when the car's going down the road.

Plus, never assume any dealer will use OEM parts.

I've been in the business now for over 5 decades, know all the scams, and was trying to maybe save you some money.

Buyer beware...because contrary to what people want to believe, the majority of car-repair shops are crooked, incompetent, or both.

https://www.simple-car-answers.com/Dealership-Parts-Scam.html

PS: My long-time PT client would have spent at least five thousand bucks on "necessary" repairs that were either mis-diagnosed or fraudulently recommended if she'd not always brought the thing to me for a second opinion. Control arm bushings, an engine management computer, power steering pump and rack, catalytic converter, wheel bearings, and most recently a complete transmission some thieves tried to sell her when she only needed one sensor.

 

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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On 2/5/2020 at 1:05 AM, Roadrunner said:

2003 Chevy Cavalier, with a very badly rusted rear chassis. I'm hoping one of the local body shops can repair that rust damage for a not too steep price, but I'm certainly not holding my breath on that.

The odds of a general-service collision-repair shop even knowing what to do are staggeringly small. The car is a unibody, so structural rust issues need to be addressed by completely removing the affected elements on the factory spot-welds, and new panels and members built up as the factory intended. Doing this right can run into really serious money.

And scabbing in slabs of steel plate and angle-iron, as is the common "repair" in situations like this, is patently unsafe if the damage is close to any suspension attachment points.

HOWEVER...if the rust is just, say, some holes in the trunk floor from water ingress, and not in the primary load-bearing structure, then somebody ought to be able to do something for reasonable money.

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1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

The odds of a general-service collision-repair shop even knowing what to do are staggeringly small. The car is a unibody, so structural rust issues need to be addressed by completely removing the affected elements on the factory spot-welds, and new panels and members built up as the factory intended. Doing this right can run into really serious money.

And scabbing in slabs of steel plate and angle-iron, as is the common "repair" in situations like this, is patently unsafe if the damage is close to any suspension attachment points.

HOWEVER...if the rust is just, say, some holes in the trunk floor from water ingress, and not in the primary load-bearing structure, then somebody ought to be able to do something for reasonable money.

All things considered, I think the car is toast, and will probably soon be hauled off to the bone yard. Badly rusted frame, now transmission shifting issues, broken sway bar link (supposedly), and squirrels chewing through some under-hood wiring.

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Got a shipment from my very reputable by-mail pharmacy.  They show a balance of $99, the current shipment of $10 and an overdue of $89 ( a $29 order and a $60 order).  My checkbook shows I mailed one check on 1/13 and the other on 1/24.  When I called the company they said they had not received those checks.  I asked how long it takes for a check to get from the mail room to where it is processed, they said approximately 3-4 hours.  I called the local USPS and asked about time for a letter to get to Chicago (where this company is located), normally 2-3 days.  This is the third and fourth checks in the past 7 months which were lost somewhere.  A stop payment at the bank costs $35 (blahblahblah outrageous charge), so it is not really worth the hassle.  Now what really irks me is the pharmaceutical company has been notifying me they want me to switch to direct-pay.  They are sort of implying they will begin no longer accepting check payments.  I know the on-line pay system is supposedly easier, simpler, safer, etc.  However I am beginning to get cynical in my old age and am wondering when the really big bank hack is going to take place and everyone's plastic money will be gone.

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3 hours ago, TarheelRick said:

Got a shipment from my very reputable by-mail pharmacy.  They show a balance of $99, the current shipment of $10 and an overdue of $89 ( a $29 order and a $60 order).  My checkbook shows I mailed one check on 1/13 and the other on 1/24.  When I called the company they said they had not received those checks.  I asked how long it takes for a check to get from the mail room to where it is processed, they said approximately 3-4 hours.  I called the local USPS and asked about time for a letter to get to Chicago (where this company is located), normally 2-3 days.  This is the third and fourth checks in the past 7 months which were lost somewhere.  A stop payment at the bank costs $35 (blahblahblah outrageous charge), so it is not really worth the hassle.  Now what really irks me is the pharmaceutical company has been notifying me they want me to switch to direct-pay.  They are sort of implying they will begin no longer accepting check payments.  I know the on-line pay system is supposedly easier, simpler, safer, etc.  However I am beginning to get cynical in my old age and am wondering when the really big bank hack is going to take place and everyone's plastic money will be gone.

We don't do scrips through the mail but have cpap supplies and such. We use a one time debit or e-check through our bank for those kinds of payments, same with utilities.

The only thing we use paper checks for is rent and the dreaded Girl Scout Cookies and school fund raising our grandkids do every year!

 

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9 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

NOS MOPAR parts are still available for these cars, and in most cases, they are FAR superior to cheap Chinese-made knockoffs.

 

Don't assume that dealers' service departments automatically use OEM parts.  The dealer where I bought my second Dodge Dakota pickup is part of a large dealership group.  They also own a NAPA store, and when it comes to things like shock absorbers and brakes they do offer a choice.

Having just under 30 years' experience (about 310,000 miles) with two Dakotas, both bought new, I'll say that when it comes to brakes, Genuine Mopar is genuine krap.  The original brakes on the second truck started pulsing like mad at just under 20,000 miles.  Front and rear, discs all around.  Replaced with Genuine Mopar, replacements got me to about 50,000.  Again pulsing like crazy.  The third set (NAPA) were still on the truck at 133,000 when I got rid of it.  I chalked the OEM parts' "quality" up to the "merger of equals" that left Chrysler a gutted hulk abandoned by the roadside after M-B looted it.

 

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1 hour ago, Mark said:

Don't assume that dealers' service departments automatically use OEM parts.  The dealer where I bought my second Dodge Dakota pickup is part of a large dealership group.  They also own a NAPA store, and when it comes to things like shock absorbers and brakes they do offer a choice.

Having just under 30 years' experience (about 310,000 miles) with two Dakotas, both bought new, I'll say that when it comes to brakes, Genuine Mopar is genuine krap.  The original brakes on the second truck started pulsing like mad at just under 20,000 miles.  Front and rear, discs all around.  Replaced with Genuine Mopar, replacements got me to about 50,000.  Again pulsing like crazy.  The third set (NAPA) were still on the truck at 133,000 when I got rid of it.  I chalked the OEM parts' "quality" up to the "merger of equals" that left Chrysler a gutted hulk abandoned by the roadside after M-B looted it.

 

There's definitely some truth to all of this, and I mentioned that dealers don't always use OEM parts.

But I made my assertion about relative quality of OEM as opposed to aftermarket based on hundreds of different items over many years in the business, not on one or two isolated instances.

Here's some more truth: many "OEM" parts are not even made by the vehicle manufacturer. If a Chrysler bean counter can source cast iron brake rotors that may be porous and warp early, crapp like that can easily get in the OEM-boxed supply chain.

And when OEMs run out of stock on some parts for older cars, they'll often substitute decent quality aftermarket. For instance, the power steering reservoirs for PTs now come from Dorman. And they're the functional and fit equivalent of OEM-design, but they look different.

An aftermarket supplier, like NAPA, may elect to source better quality brake rotor castings that are initially more expensive, as parts stores don't need the insane markups dealers require to cover their huge overhead. A reasonable markup on a more expensive part can result in a selling price that's still significantly lower than what a dealer gets for garbage. So a higher quality part can sometimes be available from the aftermarket...but that is hardly the norm. The situation IS improving, however, as some parts chains are looking at the long-term business sense of selling crapp as opposed to quality.

Here's one of dozens of real-world horror stories I can tell: a client wanted me to do lower control arm bushings on his 160,000 mile Ram truck, as even though he does some of his own work, he has no access to a press. I was going out of town, and couldn't get to it, so he decided to do the job himself.

Complete arms are available both OEM and aftermarket. They're expensive, as they're aluminum FORGINGS. And there are "just as good" aftermarket parts for a fraction of the price.

My guy bought the cheapos, did it himself, and saved a lot of money.

When one of the cheapo CASTINGS failed, he was doing about 80 on the interstate. Could have easily killed him if the traffic had been heavier that morning, and it totalled the truck.

The litigation is proceeding.

Here's the bottom line: the more you know about how your vehicle works, and the more you know about the industry that keeps it running, the less likelihood that you'll get screwed.

 

 

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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13 hours ago, TarheelRick said:

Got a shipment from my very reputable by-mail pharmacy.  They show a balance of $99, the current shipment of $10 and an overdue of $89 ( a $29 order and a $60 order).  My checkbook shows I mailed one check on 1/13 and the other on 1/24.  When I called the company they said they had not received those checks.  I asked how long it takes for a check to get from the mail room to where it is processed, they said approximately 3-4 hours.  I called the local USPS and asked about time for a letter to get to Chicago (where this company is located), normally 2-3 days.  This is the third and fourth checks in the past 7 months which were lost somewhere.  A stop payment at the bank costs $35 (blahblahblah outrageous charge), so it is not really worth the hassle.  Now what really irks me is the pharmaceutical company has been notifying me they want me to switch to direct-pay.  They are sort of implying they will begin no longer accepting check payments.  I know the on-line pay system is supposedly easier, simpler, safer, etc.  However I am beginning to get cynical in my old age and am wondering when the really big bank hack is going to take place and everyone's plastic money will be gone.

Everyone wants e payment so they can get ride of more help. They get to send all that out to who knows where to process everything for the outside of there place. As far as the next Hack, I bet within 2 years. 

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22 hours ago, TarheelRick said:

Got a shipment from my very reputable by-mail pharmacy.  They show a balance of $99, the current shipment of $10 and an overdue of $89 ( a $29 order and a $60 order).  My checkbook shows I mailed one check on 1/13 and the other on 1/24.  When I called the company they said they had not received those checks.  I asked how long it takes for a check to get from the mail room to where it is processed, they said approximately 3-4 hours.  I called the local USPS and asked about time for a letter to get to Chicago (where this company is located), normally 2-3 days.  This is the third and fourth checks in the past 7 months which were lost somewhere.  A stop payment at the bank costs $35 (blahblahblah outrageous charge), so it is not really worth the hassle.  Now what really irks me is the pharmaceutical company has been notifying me they want me to switch to direct-pay.  They are sort of implying they will begin no longer accepting check payments.  I know the on-line pay system is supposedly easier, simpler, safer, etc.  However I am beginning to get cynical in my old age and am wondering when the really big bank hack is going to take place and everyone's plastic money will be gone.

Rick, If they force you to the EFT route, I suggest that you go to your bank and set up an account just for these transactions.  Keep the minimum amount in the account and then transfer when the companies are going to request their payments.  My employer forced everybody to direct deposit and I set up an account at my credit union where the money is sent.  This is the only thing this account is for.  If my employer gets hacked, and the hackers get the bank account information, there will be very little money for them to take. 

There is another possibility and that is the company you are dealing with is losing your check on purpose.  I have heard of companies doing this to ratchet up the frustration of the customer and he or she finally relents and goes the EFT route.  The only way to know for sure is to send a payment by certified mail with a return receipt.  Very expensive, but you may find out where the problem lies.

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1 hour ago, Jim N said:

There is another possibility and that is the company you are dealing with is losing your check on purpose.  I have heard of companies doing this to ratchet up the frustration of the customer and he or she finally relents and goes the EFT route.

This is exactly what I am thinking.  I talked with my bank and they suggested I give them my credit card number rather than debit number.  The visa card is not directly connected to my bank account and if there is some nefarious activity I have the recourse of the credit card company recoup any overpayments..

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My wife on her work days, will turn on GMA (Good Morning America).

Last year as most of you can remember I am sure, they were roasting any guy that so much as asked a woman out for a date and swearing that every one of them was a sexual predator.

So what's on GMA this morning? Oh just tips for women that will be wearing a open front gown or dress without a bra and how to apply makeup so that it gives the appearance of a deeper cleavage.

How the hell do you have it both ways? Complete and total hypocrites.

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9 hours ago, NYLIBUD said:

Heavy heavy fast winds, knocking everything down, and over on LI NY.There were chairs and A tables in my pool.

Took out 3 trees in the front of my property - one that was about an 80 foot white pine and went across the main road entering the subdivision. Lucky that I had some neighbors to help - three chainsaws going and we got it off the road in about an hour but my old back is killing me.

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POWER OUTAGES !!!! Just got kicked off line again by power outage. One of those 1 -2 second type outages. Just enough to have to reset every clock in the house, starting to wonder why we really need this many clocks. The problem stems from the buried cables that are being installed everywhere. I'm not talking about the installation where they dig a trench and put the lines in and cover them. The last few years, mostly Fiber Optic cables, they just have someone siting on a machine and drilling and forcing the cable  along parallel to the grounds surface.   There are already a lot of things under ground like old phone lines, electric lines, gas lines. The companies doing this work keep drilling holes thru the existing  infrastructure causing power outages and gas leaks. There should be a law against this type of indiscriminate drilling. A couple of years ago here in KCMO they drilled a gas line that then filled a locally famous restaurant with natural gas that exploded killing one of the employees and injuring several other people and caused extensive damage to office buildings next to it and leaving a smoldering hole where the restaurant once stood. The Gas Company had sent someone out to check on the smell of gas before the explosion and they told the manager to just air out the restaurant and they would be fine. So you have the people that are charged with monitoring this activity and they're just as bad as the people drilling every where willy nelly or as they please. What could go wrong ?? I'm just thankful that it just bumped me off line. This all still makes me wait to here what they've blown up next.   

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Set out this morning on "grand tour" of a couple hobby shops and a Rite-Aid about an hour south of me. Ten miles out, the highway was a parking lot with no end of the backup in sight, so I got off and decided, just since I was out anyway, to switch directions and visit a flea market, a hardware store, and a Rite-Aid on the other end of my county. The flea market is now closed. The Rite-Aid is in the process of becoming a Walgreens (which probably means no more $10 Welly diecasts) and would only let you in to pick up a prescription. The hardware store didn't have the Krylon paints I was looking for, just Rustoleums--but I did discover some new cheap flat white and flat black paints, so just so the whole morning/trip wouldn't be wasted, I picked up two cans of each. Read my report on them up in the General forum. 

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On 2/6/2020 at 8:38 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

There's definitely some truth to all of this, and I mentioned that dealers don't always use OEM parts.

But I made my assertion about relative quality of OEM as opposed to aftermarket based on hundreds of different items over many years in the business, not on one or two isolated instances.

Here's some more truth: many "OEM" parts are not even made by the vehicle manufacturer. 

The truth is, they should be called vehicle assemblers as that is what they are. They might own or have a small percentage of ownership in a supplier, but the vehicle manufacturer as we think pretty much take parts supplied by vendors from around the world and put them together, much like what we do with model kits. I know because I work for such a supplier who makes parts for many of the cars on the roads here in the US and around the world.

 

If a Chrysler bean counter can source cast iron brake rotors that may be porous and warp early, crapp like that can easily get in the OEM-boxed supply chain.

The nature of the business of supplying the OEM comes down to price. They will switch suppliers if they can save money. Quality plays a role as they want to make sure warranty claims do not go up, but bottom line is PROFIT!

And when OEMs run out of stock on some parts for older cars, they'll often substitute decent quality aftermarket. For instance, the power steering reservoirs for PTs now come from Dorman. And they're the functional and fit equivalent of OEM-design, but they look different.

OEM look to keep parts around for the warranty period and not much longer. Sometimes the supplier can continue to offer that part in an aftermarket capacity (which explains why sometimes you see an OEM part in a NAPA box) or an aftermarket company comes up with a suitable replacement (like the Dorman reference). Dorman has created a whole line of replacement parts based on "OE Solutions" and in some cases, fixes a design flaw that OE has chosen not to.

An aftermarket supplier, like NAPA, may elect to source better quality brake rotor castings that are initially more expensive, as parts stores don't need the insane markups dealers require to cover their huge overhead. A reasonable markup on a more expensive part can result in a selling price that's still significantly lower than what a dealer gets for garbage. So a higher quality part can sometimes be available from the aftermarket...but that is hardly the norm.

NAPA and others like them want to offer a program pointed at different price levels to appeal to different tastes. NAPA has no less than 4 grades of brake pads available ranging in price from $30 and up. You want cheap? They got em! You want quality? They got them too! Most made in China, as so much today is. Why? Car owners are just like modelers- CHEAP! Add in the chain repair shops that want to drag you in with the notion they can do a high quality brake job for $99 AND advertise the heck out of it. The sad reality is that as consumers, we can justify spending $100 or more on the latest gym shoes, but not on a brake job. Many of the car manufacturers are now competing with the parts stores by offering their version of an aftermarket parts program, trying to capture as much business as they can. If you have been to a dealer for service lately, you may have received a quote for service and they likely offered you several options- OEM or aftermarket- in an effort to keep you from going elsewhere. 

The situation IS improving, however, as some parts chains are looking at the long-term business sense of selling crapp as opposed to quality.

There is still a race to the bottom by some as they feel if they have the lowest price, it removes a sales hurdle. As someone who has been in the automotive repair and parts business in various capacities since 1980, it has been an interesting ride. Knowing what I know, seeing what I have seen, has made me jaded, much like Ace has stated and feels. The number of shops out to make a buck at whatever cost hasn't changed, the complexity of today's cars and the increased costs of the parts to fix them has only made it worse.The chains who offer the better quality will survive and we can only hope those that sell cheap stuff fade away.

Here's one of dozens of real-world horror stories I can tell: a client wanted me to do lower control arm bushings on his 160,000 mile Ram truck, as even though he does some of his own work, he has no access to a press. I was going out of town, and couldn't get to it, so he decided to do the job himself.

Complete arms are available both OEM and aftermarket. They're expensive, as they're aluminum FORGINGS. And there are "just as good" aftermarket parts for a fraction of the price.

My guy bought the cheapos, did it himself, and saved a lot of money.

When one of the cheapo CASTINGS failed, he was doing about 80 on the interstate. Could have easily killed him if the traffic had been heavier that morning, and it totalled the truck.

The litigation is proceeding.

Here's the bottom line: the more you know about how your vehicle works, and the more you know about the industry that keeps it running, the less likelihood that you'll get screwed.

Hope your friend gets fairly compensated. No one should have to go thru what he did and I am sure he would have rather not gone thru it even if he is made whole and then some.

 

 

 

 

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We used to joke that the auto parts warehouse's lifetime guarantee just means you will be replacing it for a lifetime!

Have been that route, 3 alternators all bad for one car, 2 starters on another! Third time in 5 months on a front hub and I took my money back and bought one for a little more at Napa and it is still working fine 3 years later!

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Myself.

I am working on a '55 Chevy 210, building the car for drag racing. I am slowly getting rid of bits and pieces that I do not want anymore in an attempt to keep my garage space somewhat under control. (That might be me just dreaming though.) So on the a-arms, I had tried to sell them through various channels with no luck and while I could purchase a new set of mounting arms, I decided that if I could not get rid of them, I would just remove the mounting arms and junk the rest of it. Instead of trying to beat out 65 year old bushings, I broke out my plasma cutter. I got things hooked up, found an old piece of wood panel to do the cutting on and proceeded to try and cut the ends off of the a-arms. I have only used this plasma cutter twice before and it worked just fine. Today, no such luck. I could get an arc, but it would just stick to the work and I had to keep breaking it loose. I tried several times, but all I did was ruin the tip. So I replaced the tip with a spare. I then start checking voltages as this is a 220v cutter. Everything looked good. Then I pulled the plasma cutter out of the welding cart and started messing with the setup dials, trying different amperage, and varying the rate of cut - nothing worked. 

I was sitting there trying to figure out what could be wrong with a brand new piece of equipment when I noticed that I had not connected the air line to the cutter!

Sometimes, I am my own worst enemy.

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