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mk11

AMT's Ford F350 pickups

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You're right Don. I wonder why they made the switch? I remember hating them when I was a kid! You would get the model built and in no time, the tires would split apart! Revell had the same type of tires around that era.

Cost cutting measure, in this case tooling costs

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Cost cutting measure, in this case tooling costs

I don't see how when they already had the tooling for the hollow vinyl tires with the '73 kit.

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I don't see how when they already had the tooling for the hollow vinyl tires with the '73 kit.

Pretty elementary. Styrene tires are part of the kit pressing, add no labor and the amount of plastic pushed through the mold is at a minimal cost. Vinyl / Rubber tires are a separate tool, and add an extra process to producing that kit. There is labor in producing those pieces, then integrating them into the box for the finished product. Same reason some early kits didn't include glass, and why red lenses were eliminated on some kits that originally had them.

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Mike Schnur shows exactly how to move the fenderwells correctly in this thread. The process is the same whether it's a short (like he's building) or a long bed. http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92819&page=1

Awesome! That's a great thread. Someone else mentioned using the 92 era Ford bed, too, for the inside. I have a couple of those laying around. There may be a way to match the bed interior to Mike's fender well work. The weird fender well on the 78 was always the holdup for me. Now there's some options.

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I don't see how when they already had the tooling for the hollow vinyl tires with the '73 kit.

I was doing some work for AMT back when this change took place.

The revised two-piece tires required all-new tooling; as I recall the decision was made due to costs of raw materials used for the kits which had gone up stratospheric-ally as a result of the first Arab Oil Embargo, and AMT was looking for every opportunity to reduce their kit piece cost.

Again, my 40 year old memory on this is pretty vague, but apparently the cost of vinyl for their old solid-core tires of many sizes was quite high - more than enough to offset the added cost of tooling up all-new tire molds.

As I also recall, the AMT Engineering Dept. personnel weren't too happy with this move, as the new two-piece tires had a very obvious seam when assembled, they didn't glue together well with styrene glue, and the tires tended to be distorted coming out of the mold making it a poor match when the two halves were assembled together.

This was just one of a number of changes made at AMT that seriously compromised the quality reputation of their kits back then, and was in my view one of several factors leading to a long term sales decline and the eventual sale of the company to Lesney circa late '78/'79.

TB

Edited by tim boyd

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I was doing some work for AMT back when this change took place.

The revised two-piece tires required all-new tooling; as I recall the decision was made due to costs of raw materials used for the kits which had gone up stratospheric-ally as a result of the first Arab Oil Embargo, and AMT was looking for every opportunity to reduce their kit piece cost.

Again, my 40 year old memory on this is pretty vague, but apparently the cost of vinyl for their old solid-core tires of many sizes was quite high - more than enough to offset the added cost of tooling up all-new tire molds.

As I also recall, the AMT Engineering Dept. personnel weren't too happy with this move, as the new two-piece tires had a very obvious seam when assembled, they didn't glue together well with styrene glue, and the tires tended to be distorted coming out of the mold making it a poor match when the two halves were assembled together.

This was just one of a number of changes made at AMT that seriously compromised the quality reputation of their kits back then, and was in my view one of several factors leading to a long term sales decline and the eventual sale of the company to Lesney circa late '78/'79.

TB

Tim, thanks for the insight. Figured it had to do with saving on material cost, but that was only an assumption on my part.

I remember AMT's two-piece tires well, because some of my earliest kits were '76 and '77 annuals and those impossible-to-glue-with-Testors tires were way beyond the skills of the 8-year-old me. Very frustrating, and I remember a conversation with the kid across the street about which '77 Pinto kit he should get. We decided MPC because of the tires! :) A lot of decals were lousy in those days too and would explode into a zillion little slivers as soon as they hit the water.

Looking at them now, some of the two-piece tires were unique and not a copy of an earlier AMT one-piece tire. I think some of them have pretty nice shapes and sidewall details. The tread is a different story but I actually want use some on a build, almost just to finally beat the darn things. A few weeks ago, tried to glue a set of the big 'n little Rally GTs together and it's still hard to as an adult using super glue! Too bad they weren't just molded in black styrene. At least that would have eliminated the glue problems.

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For my current build I test fit all the possible combinations of tire-halves that I have. Glued them together with super-glue and sanded the tread. I think the result looks convincing. As the two-piece tires have a bigger outer diameter I like them better on the truck than the older one piece hollow tires.

The 1975 Star Truk that I have (identifiable by the older grill) lacks several details that later versions of the same molds have. I found missing on the 75 issue, but present on my later Matchbox/Lesney issues:

-side chrome at the "dent" is of simple rectangular sectional area, the newer ones are more "sophisticated"

-oil pan and other engine parts lack bolt heads

-tailgate doesn't have the trim piece in the upper cove, that might be a model year issue, didn't check that

-the stock wheel covers lack the center emblem

I found a pic of a 76 model on the net that also has this old side trim, so maybe they corrected it for the 77 model?

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The beltline trim looks correct for a '76 or earlier truck, but I've seen quite a few 1:1 '76 and earlier models with the thicker beltline trim... (this one was retrofitted with a '78/9 grille). It may have had something to do with trim level in the early years.

0911clt_03_z%2B1977%2Bford_f100.jpg

The rocker trim changed for '77- a thin strip that ran above the fluted rockers and wheel openings-

1977-Ford-F-100-34111335919302.jpg

The AMT beltline trim is closer to this-

F100sm.jpg

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I remember AMT's two-piece tires well, because some of my earliest kits were '76 and '77 annuals and those impossible-to-glue-with-Testors tires were way beyond the skills of the 8-year-old me.

I've been working with old MPC Volare built ups lately and since this question came up, I examined the styrene tires. The ones I have assembled glued well and are intact. The sidewall detail and lettering is nice and could easily be painted white. The tread is almost non-existent, except for the very visible seam between the two halfs. The tough part with the kit is that the wheel back is molded as part of the inner tire, making it tougher to replace the tires with modern vinyl / rubber ones. Still, I did that on the one I built.

I recently opened up one of my Rat Packers and was surprised that it had styrene tires on the modern release.

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Gluing styrene tire halves together and achieving a long-lasting bond is no problem, if you're using a solvent-type liquid glue like Tenax or MEK.

The tendency of the "old" plastic tires to fall apart over the years was due to the old tube glues, which really did nothing to meld plastic parts together. Super glue is an improvement on tube glue, but it still works much the same way. Solvent types actually melt the styrene and intermix the molecules from both parts.

Edited by Danno

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On ‎2015‎-‎01‎-‎22 at 5:25 AM, Chuck Most said:

The beltline trim looks correct for a '76 or earlier truck, but I've seen quite a few 1:1 '76 and earlier models with the thicker beltline trim... (this one was retrofitted with a '78/9 grille). It may have had something to do with trim level in the early years.

0911clt_03_z%2B1977%2Bford_f100.jpg

The rocker trim changed for '77- a thin strip that ran above the fluted rockers and wheel openings-

 

wow, that extra bottom chrome on that blk/wht shortbox doesn't do much for it... :unsure:

mike

Edited by mk11

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wow, that extra bottom chrome on that blk/wht shortbox doesn't do much for it... :unsure:

mike

I'll give it credit for looking better than it should, but, yeah.... :wacko:

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The talk about Old Model Glue Not gluing the 2pc tires together

was about the "Delryn" or 'Slippery Engineering Plastic' tires

AMT & Revell offered in the 70's. Nothing short of Super Glue or epoxy would hold

the together. And even that was Not a guarantee!!

The material alone was design to Prevent ANYTHING from adhering to it

Note the Generic Name SLIPPERY ENGINEERING Plastic.

It was, and Still Is used mainly in Model Railroading.

ie Wheel sets & trucks, Couplers, etc!!!

The Best way to keep them together is to have the inner & outer rims to be firm enough

fit that them being glued together holds the tire halves together!!

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A tad off topic, but about that...

 

Would the Dana be correct for a 2-wheel-drive 1/2 ton Bumpside? Every such '67-72 I've ever seen has a Ford 9". 3/4 and 1 tons are another ballgame, and I know those did have them.

Through the 60s and 70s Ford offered both the 9" and the 44/60 Danas in the F100s...

P1019164

This shows that you can use the amt pickup dana diff and metal axles on your moeb F100 build to get the benefit of an expanded choice of wheels and tires and still have an accurate chassis.

 

mike

Edited by mk11

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Don't know if anyone has pointed this out but the amt firestone ford 4x4 is a f150 due to the coil spring front suspension like on the broncos and f150 the f250-f350 had leaf spring front suspetion and the firestone kit has 5 bolt patern that was only on the f150 and broncos and f250-f350 has 8 bolt. Ford f250-f350 had leaf springs up until 2004 then they changed to coil springs. 

Edited by 426 pack

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19 hours ago, 426 pack said:

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out but the amt firestone ford 4x4 is a f150 due to the coil spring front suspension... 

Right there on the first page  ;)

 

mike

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I acquired an old built-up with the plastic Tires. It only had three tires and wheels, so I was able to get another set up from Scenes Unlimited Resin, as I liked the slot mags with 8-lugs. Well, I am going in a different direction, as this truck is perfect for what I plan to do. It is in the queue for next year, as it has been planned out, and I have everything I need to get it done.

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On 11/25/2017 at 12:05 AM, mk11 said:

Through the 60s and 70s Ford offered both the 9" and the 44/60 Danas in the F100s...

This shows that you can use the amt pickup dana diff and metal axles on your moeb F100 build to get the benefit of an expanded choice of wheels and tires and still have an accurate chassis.

 

mike

Thanks for the info :)

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  I usually build the F 350  Super Camper Special pickup  the way you would typically see them back in the day, with oversize wide base camper  wheels and massive 12-16.5" tires on the rear only.. The  MPC Dodge 4x4  wheels work the best to replicate the  9.75" wide rim in 1:1.

IMG_5378.JPG

Edited by leafsprings

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16 hours ago, leafsprings said:

 The  MPC Dodge 4x4  wheels work the best to replicate the  9.75" wide rim in 1:1.

Those wheels are actually 1/20 scale, and scale out to just over 19" in 1/25 scale.

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One would think that because of the success Moebius is having with their Ford pickup truck lineup, that Round-2 would get into gear and start tooling up some siblings, like a standard long and short bed configuration.

Better still a period correct tow truck, cuz we don't have any of those.

Anyway, it's a pitty all hose babyboomer's, only want rehashes, of kits they had as a kid. :(

 

Hey guys...put off those blinkers ;)

 

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1 hour ago, Casey said:

Those wheels are actually 1/20 scale, and scale out to just over 19" in 1/25 scale.

Yes,  you are correct,  not  an exact match, but  looks similar to the real thing  . I believe I nailed the stance though.  Anybody else have anything that comes closer  to the photo? 

IMG_5384.JPG

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