Joe Handley Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 A couple vehicles I do find interesting in the RR space are the Icon Derelict cars--the Chevy and DeSoto wagon---worn out looking on the outside, but well-engineered underneath and quite driveable from what I've read... Honestly, that's one of those things I just don't get. Why not make it look half way presentable if you're going to be putting that kind of time/money/effort to build something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelbuilder Mark Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Honestly, that's one of those things I just don't get. Why not make it look half way presentable if you're going to be putting that kind of time/money/effort to build something like that. Basically, that is the point tho. The builder LIKES the look, otherwise they would not have done it that way. To them, it is presentable. This question is really an odd one. "What would someone.____?" Well, usually because they like it. I have seen really well done Hot Rods, and thought to myself, "I would never have chosen that color" but the builder liked it. I go to cruise in's, and I am GLAD not everyone likes the same car style, same car color, same wheels etc etc etc.. That would be VERY boring. Motor Trend did a video companion piece to a write up/photo shoot they did comparing living with a RR, actually the Sailor Jerry rum car, and a Lamborghini Aventador. Basically, the visual "hit" when they stopped at various places, and the car most women wanted to check out and ride in, was the RR and not the Lamborghini. Now granted, this video backs up the point of a lot of people saying that these cars do not "function" and it should have had an air suspension. The Jerry Sailor car was designed to be a display piece, and not really driven much, so in this case at least, the "look" was more important than the function, and the preferred look was the Rough and Tough image. Maybe it has more to do with that than anything else. They look tough, and driven. Not like someone dressed up in their Sunday best and trying to look "good". The Rat Rods look aggressive, accessible, like the tough guys etc. Personally, I like all types of car styles, but not all of them. Some are more tasteful to me than others. I do not like the ones with toilet seats for chairs, rope for door handles, spare parts just welded to the bodies. I would be more inclinde to refer to those as Junk Yard Dogs than Rat Rods. Here is a link ti the Motor Trend video, Edited November 17, 2013 by Modelbuilder Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Eh? Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Richard's thoughts are well expressed. To me, they show that he has a lot of common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyLvr Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Does all of this dialogue allow me to refer to my wife as a "rat wife" now???? She is getting old; has quite a natural patina; and trust me, she's pretty hard to handle at times...I'm jus' sayin'................matt Time to trade the old' gal in for a pair of later models??? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddyfink Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I'll just leave this right here. Enjoy http://autoculture.org/?page_id=1015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexMexSu Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Simply put..... .....there is nothing to "get" about a rrat rod, nor any other persons cars. It is theirs and theirs alone. I too at one point did not get the large amount of late model cars entered in car shows. Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers and the like. Nor did I get those big wheeled cars. Then I started talking to the owners and soon after I did indeed 'get it'. They love cars as much as anyone else they just look at them a little differently. Take a look at your wife, and your freinds wife. Are they the same? Chances are they are not. Do you have the same dog as your neighbor? Your house the same color? I get rat rods, and their owners/constructors. Art is truelly in the eye of the beholder. There is nothing to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Art is truelly in the eye of the beholder. There is nothing to get. I like this guy. Welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyrichard Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 hmm, talented AND smart. Richard's thoughts are well expressed. To me, they show that he has a lot of common sense. thnx guys btw i read some more comments and i just want to explain what is "to get" about a rat (hey i'm even rhyming lol ) its simple there are people who really think it looks great / is beautifull , looks stunning .. i'm one of those people who just absolutly loves the whole look / concept and feel ... we could go further on this , because i also love a shiney rod / car etc .. but lets take cars on shows , lets stay with hotrods and customs .. take cars that compete for the riddler award .. such awsome details and perfection ... but in a way its as pointless as a rat / rusted car .. its all just a visual thing .. so even the perfectly shiney cars could be looked at as ... i also get that some people just dont like the look but hey thats taste so what is not to get , one person loves to put mustard on his food and a nother person is disgusted by the idea alone .. again taste and it does not matter if its visial or .... and whell this is me trying to promote the whole rat idea in a very different way > bare with me > buildings .... i love industrial old knackered buildings , old sheds .. and a lot of people love that in fact how often do you see a build of a barn / barnfind ... we could also say then .. hmm a old building with charme and character .. why not make it perfect and shiney ?? same thing .. in the end we (again) come back to the personal taste thing again , so anybody who says he doesnt get it either didnt read this text or does not understand the whole concept that people are different and like difefrent things in life and hey how cool is that ... we are not boring hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shucky Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I haven't read this whole thread, but IMO "rad rods" have always been there from the early days and will continue to be around. Its just that one day someone decided to "label" them "rat rods" when they've just been traditional hot rods all along in one phase of completion or another. Sure some folks have taken the "rat" theme to new levels of grunge (love it or hate it) but its all just "hot rodding" to me with or without the label. Not everyones ride is shiney and pristine regardless of whether its a muscle car, a classic, or a 32 Ford. Could care less about the "label" they were given. Everyone has their own opinion about cars, style, and "hot rodding," so understandable the "unfinished" look is not for everyone nor is $1million dollar trailor queens. One thing is certain, we all love cars in some form or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) The ratty look isn't what puts me off...it's the fact that so many of these rolling piles of trash are built with NO skill or appreciation for how stuff is actually done. Pathetic bubble-gum welds like this all over a car say "ignorance, lack of pride in accomplishment, and just plain laziness". You can build a "rat" and at least have it stuck together with acceptable welds... Edited November 22, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) You can build a "rat" and at least have it stuck together with acceptable welds... Agreed. there is no excuse for shoddy workmanship regardless of the "style". Edited November 22, 2013 by Jantrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordRodnKustom Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Isn't shoddy workmanship part of the "style"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I've been playing with this 'traditional rod'. I started with an old built up that I liked the flat green paint on, but was otherwise a kid built glue bomb. I did a rough cut of getting the fenders off and I'm working with all parts box accessories. Otherwise just trying to be creative and build it pleasing to my eye. And no it's not sitting on the ground and nothing will look like it's ready to fall off either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Isn't shoddy workmanship part of the "style"? Well then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Isn't shoddy workmanship part of the "style"? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shucky Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 It may be "shoddy" but in many cases intentionally done to achieve a certain look the builder / owner was going for. Not sure why someone's "shoddy" craftsmanship (done in many cases intentionally) would bother an on-looker? Its like anything else, everyone has their own style/interest/taste/vision. You dont like it, you dont like it. Move on. I myself do not like "traditional" boring muscle cars with 15 inch wheels. I'm sure the builders/owners of these so called "rat rods" could care less what some on-lookers think about their welding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) It may be "shoddy" but in many cases intentionally done to achieve a certain look the builder / owner was going for. Not sure why someone's "shoddy" craftsmanship (done in many cases intentionally) would bother an on-looker? Its like anything else, everyone has their own style/interest/taste/vision. You dont like it, you dont like it. Move on. I myself do not like "traditional" boring muscle cars with 15 inch wheels. I'm sure the builders/owners of these so called "rat rods" could care less what some on-lookers think about their welding. Oh please. That's what separates good work from ######, and it's why SOME people wipe their backsides after they go, and some don't think it's necessary. Each to his own. But I tell you what...NOBODY who knows how to weld would turn out anything like that by CHOICE. It's embarrassing, and unsafe. And it's not a matter of what someone "thinks about their welding". Either you KNOW HOW to weld, or you don't. The object of welding is to fuse two pieces of metal together, not to make some ridiculous style statement. There's no subjectivity to it. I don't know anyone else's background, but Ive been building REAL cars all my life, around REAL builders who do REAL work, and those garbage welds would get the "welder" laughed at and ridiculed ANYWHERE anyone knew anything about welding. And a vehicle with welds like that would NEVER EVER pass any kind of tech inspection for ANY kind of competition, or any kind of post-repair inspection by an insurance company. I don't get why people who turn this sort of stuff out apparently DON'T want to develop some kind of skill at what they do. Why is trash work acceptable? Welds like that aren't done for "Style"...they're done because the builder doesn't know any better. And would you believe a modeler who presented a model with grainy orange-peel on one side, runs and sags on the other side, gluey fingerprints all over the windows, and plug-wires hooked up the the radiator...who said it was his "style' and he wanted it to look that way? Probably not. POOR CRAFTSMANSHIP ISN'T ART...or "STYLE"...IT'S JUST POOR CRAFTSMANSHIP. Edited November 22, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my80malibu Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) The ratty look isn't what puts me off...it's the fact that so many of these rolling piles of trash are built with NO skill or appreciation for how stuff is actually done. Pathetic bubble-gum welds like this all over a car say "ignorance, lack of pride in accomplishment, and just plain laziness". You can build a "rat" and at least have it stuck together with acceptable welds... Would you want something with that type of weld, 'top picture" rolling down the Highway. Next to, or in front of your Family sedan? Edited November 22, 2013 by my80malibu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Would you want something with that type of weld, 'top picture" rolling down the Highway. Next to, or in front of your Family sedan? Excellent point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Nothing...nothing at all... Edited November 22, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 It may be "shoddy" but in many cases intentionally done to achieve a certain look the builder / owner was going for. Not sure why someone's "shoddy" craftsmanship (done in many cases intentionally) would bother an on-looker? Its like anything else, everyone has their own style/interest/taste/vision. You dont like it, you dont like it. Move on. I myself do not like "traditional" boring muscle cars with 15 inch wheels. I'm sure the builders/owners of these so called "rat rods" could care less what some on-lookers think about their welding. But, welding is NOT decorative, it is NOT style it IS STRUCTURAL! Shoddy welds are shoddy structures and WILL fail (probably at the least convenient moment ie: in front of a car full of kids, going around a tight corner.) Frankly, I don't want to die because of someone's messed up sense of "style" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Would you want something with that type of weld, 'top picture" rolling down the Highway. Next to, or in front of your Family sedan? Last one I saw made me nervous to stand next to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shucky Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 You guys are sorely mistaken and might I add entitled to your own opinion. I never said they were safe, road worthy, would pass "tech inspection," or that I'd enjoy sharing the road with one lol. That's not why cars like this are being built "on purpose" this way. One of these,"shoddy welds" and all is the extreme opposite of cars on the other side of the spectrum (also built on purpose/intentionally) that have full chrome/gold plated everything, hand cut tires, engines so expensive they've never been run, interiors with $50,000 worth of leather, paint so perfect and so expensive that your not allowed to look at it for more than 30 seconds at a time, and a build price north of $1million. This thread was about whether the so called rat rod "fad" was over, not to debate how some of the more extreme examples were constructed ON PURPOSE. Extreme examples of any type of themed or labeled hot rod, muscle car, street rod, low rider, pro touring car, and yes EVEN rat rods, etc are fairly common, especially on the auto show circuit. They are not for everyone and may not appeal to everyones tastes. They are also not always built with safety and function in mind. Is this a new revalation in the automotive world to car enthusiasts? I think not. Hot rodding ANY type or kind of car is an extremely personal endeavor for the owner/builder and dare I say again is done on purpose because they WANTED it that way? It is extremely closed minded to think one can build a safe, "tech inspection worthy" car on purpose but not build a roaring beast of hodge-podged junk death trap with shoddy welds for the same reason. You just may not "like" what the builder did or like how they did it. That's okay lol. Building these things (the so called rat rod), especially the more extreme examples aren't about competing for the best craftsmanship or finest welds lol. It's about being different, making a statement, bucking the trend, causing controversy (clearly lol). They could care less if master mechanics, master welders, and tech inspectors approve. That's the whole point! AND why builders of these things keep pushing the envelope of these often monstrous death machines. If you still think that these things are not built in the way that they are on purpose I'd suggest stepping away from your frame jig, welder, and inspection rule book and talk to an owner / builder of one of them and ask them some questions. You'll find they are just normal hot rodders with a taste for something different. You may not like their creation, or agree how it was constructed but they like it that way. Comparing shoddy model cars to this = fail. Masterful builders like Dr. Cranky make some of their creations look like they can survive or have already been through a bomb blast INTENTIONALLY. Just like guys doing 1:1 examples are doing (lightbulb on here). Shoddy model car building as you describe is simply shoddy model car building = NOT intentional. Oh please. That's what separates good work from ######, and it's why SOME people wipe their backsides after they go, and some don't think it's necessary. Each to his own. But I tell you what...NOBODY who knows how to weld would turn out anything like that by CHOICE. It's embarrassing, and unsafe. And it's not a matter of what someone "thinks about their welding". Either you KNOW HOW to weld, or you don't. The object of welding is to fuse two pieces of metal together, not to make some ridiculous style statement. There's no subjectivity to it. I don't know anyone else's background, but Ive been building REAL cars all my life, around REAL builders who do REAL work, and those garbage welds would get the "welder" laughed at and ridiculed ANYWHERE anyone knew anything about welding. And a vehicle with welds like that would NEVER EVER pass any kind of tech inspection for ANY kind of competition, or any kind of post-repair inspection by an insurance company. I don't get why people who turn this sort of stuff out apparently DON'T want to develop some kind of skill at what they do. Why is trash work acceptable? Welds like that aren't done for "Style"...they're done because the builder doesn't know any better. And would you believe a modeler who presented a model with grainy orange-peel on one side, runs and sags on the other side, gluey fingerprints all over the windows, and plug-wires hooked up the the radiator...who said it was his "style' and he wanted it to look that way? Probably not. POOR CRAFTSMANSHIP ISN'T ART...or "STYLE"...IT'S JUST POOR CRAFTSMANSHIP. But, welding is NOT decorative, it is NOT style it IS STRUCTURAL! Shoddy welds are shoddy structures and WILL fail (probably at the least convenient moment ie: in front of a car full of kids, going around a tight corner.) Frankly, I don't want to die because of someone's messed up sense of "style" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) Machines, as I've stated before, have within the definition of "machine" the implication that they function. Function has within its definition the implication of FITNESS to function. To build ANY "machine" that isn't fit to function is simply missing the entire point of what a machine is. A pile of plodged together ###### isn't a machine. It's a pile of ######. There's NO rationalization for ###### welding, on ANYTHING. Again, it's not a "statement". It's stupidity posing as art. If YOU think that's cool and worthwhile, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But, a weld is a clearly defined thing, and it's not subject to idiot interpretation or subjective comparisons. "Weld" has a clearly defined and accepted meaning, and strings of monkey-snot don't cut it in the real world. When we blatantly disregard critical meanings, and function, in the misguided pretense that somehow self-expression transcends what's right, there's not much left. Edited November 23, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) Building these things (the so called rat rod), especially the more extreme examples aren't about competing for the best craftsmanship or finest welds lol. It's about being different, making a statement, bucking the trend, causing controversy (clearly lol). They could care less if master mechanics, master welders, and tech inspectors approve. That's the whole point! AND why builders of these things keep pushing the envelope of these often monstrous death machines. This is interesting. Apparently YOU think craftsmanship has something to do with "competing" to see whose work is best. Nope. It's highly PERSONAL, something you do for YOURSELF, and it's a much more CHALLENGING method of self-expression than snotting out a string of half-assed "work" and trying to pass it off as something special. A man becomes a craftsman because it matters to himself, the man inside...not a bunch of ignorant bystanders he's trying to impress with how outrageous his poorly conceived and implemented "death machine" is. It takes effort, dedication, hard work and practice to become a good craftsman, and it's a very personal journey to get there. This "making a statement" and taking it to ridiculous extremes where even basic structural elements like welds are unsound, is more accurately a celebration of incompetence, laziness and mechanical and technical ignorance, dressed up and masquerading as self-expression. It's as valid artistically as picking up a guitar and banging on it like a chimp, without ever bothering to learn any chords or fingering, and calling it music. Calling a turd a rose doesn't make it smell any better. Anybody can make a turd, and it doesn't take any talent, skill or effort. But wait...maybe that's the appeal...it's easy. Edited November 23, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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