Tom Geiger Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Don't forget competition, as that also determines price, In this case since there is no competition, they can make the price whatever they want! Now if there was 2-3 companies offering it, the competitions would drive the price down.. Not really. This truck is being done by a Chinese company who is not offering it here in the USA. A distributor is bringing it here, so you are paying a markup for the service. If the situation was that 2-3 American kit manufacturers decided to produce the same kit, it wouldn't result in them lowering the price to compete because the margins are already slim in the kit market. It would just result in none of them having enough sales to make their product viable, which wouldn't be good for us at all. This is a very small market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 When we talk trucks the last time a new Ford truck was released I think all three manufactures from the US made a version of the truck. So this does make a difference when we talk money to be made. It would be hard to make a different version of your kit when it is already out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I want kits of modern pickups. If I want something, I buy it. Period.The only thing higher prices means to me is that I won't be buying five at a time. And for me, that's a good thing. In other words... me buying one more costly kit means I won't be buying two or three lower priced kits I probably shouldn't have bought in the first place. Back when you could get a kit for ten or twelve bucks, I did that all the time. And I noticed something... the stack of "no way am I ever going to get around to building that" kits in my stash kept growing and growing. These days I wont buy ten of those 1977 Woonsocket Sport Roadster kits unless I have ten specific ideas in mind on how to build it. I won't even buy ten of them for a buck apiece if all they're going to do is take up space in the workshop. The only thing the MSRP on the Meng kit means is that I'll be accumulating mine one-at-a-time, and not by the case load. I don't "need" one, I WANT one. I don't need to spend any money on my hobby, but I do, because I enjoy it. And if I need to spend a little money to send the message I want to send to the kit manufacturers regarding what I want to see in terms of subject matter, I'll do it. If it's a high-quality product, I'll gladly pay a premium for it if it's something I want. I've paid good money for complete junk, but the Meng kit looks to be several cuts above that level, so I think I'll sleep just fine even after having shelled out that much for a model kit. At any rate, even if I pay full retail for the Meng F-350, that's still way less of a hit on my bank account than buying the same truck in 1:1, never mind insurance, fuel, maintenance, etc. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemodeler Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Don't forget competition, as that also determines price, In this case since there is no competition, they can make the price whatever they want! Now if there was 2-3 companies offering it, the competitions would drive the price down.. The prices are set by the cost of production and bringing the item to market, not whether or not there is competition in the segment. As an example, Revell and Round2 both offer a late model Camaro model, and there isn't a price war going on because they both have a kit on the shelf! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilrathy10 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I find it a little amusing that trucks aren't a hot item....Seeing as I live in Texas, none of that makes any sense.....We got trucks EVERYWHERE.....I know I got one....My brother and my daddy, too!!! I see where the model companies a coming from on all this, as, after all, they do have to get permission to model whatever truck they consider to, before they can even, actually do it....That costs money.....Then they have to produce a prototype....That costs money......Then they have to tool it up.....That costs money......Then they have to produce it in vast numbers....TCM.......Then they have to market it......TCM.....etc.etc.etc.....I can't say I'm as discerning as others are about accuracy, but it does need to be, at least, CLOSE to the real deal......So, I'd imagine we're all as much to blame as the model companies..... And, to be honest, If the 1:1 companies would relax a little about licensing, which they ain't gonna do, by the way, they probably would produce more models......Just saying.... Edited March 12, 2014 by kilrathy10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlotDaddy1963 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 on a side note, the Meng F350 seems to me to be an excellent opportunity for the aftermarket... 1: resin single-cab 2: resin extended-cab 3:resin long bed 4:resin dually conversion 5:resin dually long bed 6: resin gas burner v8 7:resin gas burner Triton V10 8: resin 2WD conversion list could be alot longer... pardon my ramblings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGlueblob Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 ..As cost goes, Meng Is Merciless.. ..Sorry 'bout that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergey Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 When I was building models there were a few snap tite kits of the Dodge ram 2500 SRW, 3500 dually....Сan you link or show one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlotDaddy1963 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Model Round-Up has both... $39 and $42 respectively, Knda pricey Much like the AMT "Snap-Fast Plus" F150, C1500 and C3500, nice but simplified Edited March 12, 2014 by SlotDaddy1963 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Back when you could get a kit for ten or twelve bucks, I did that all the time When I got back into the hobby in the early 1990s, my local kit pusher was selling kits at my club meetings for $6 each. He'd give you a $1 a kit discount if you bought a dozen mixed kits. So each meeting I'd just grab an empty kit case of his and fill it up for $60. I'd buy anything I didn't already have, and I usually bought two of any new kit for starters. Then when I needed 2-3 more to fill the case, I'd just grab another '55 Chevy pickup or other favorite kit that I already had way too many of. Ah the good ole days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Probably the most basic market-study of all, Bill. Last time they whipped one up, they put it out there, and it didn't sell well. So, they're not so quick to do it again. That seems to be the way the Little Three function and it's certainly the methodology they consistently quote. And who's to say they're wrong? Only Moebius is flying a different flightplan, IMC tried and failed, and maybe Meng is on that path as well. Time will tell. Yes, but for builders like me and many others that have commented here, we DON'T WANT A RUN OF THE MILL WIMPY TRUCK, WE WANT TRUCKS WITH KAHUNAS!! I think, regardless of price, the Meng F350 will be (hopefully) the first to fit that bill with many of us. I'm not bashing those of us who like slammed 1/2 ton or mini trucks, but there are many that want 4x4 lifted rigs, and rigs with something under the hood to pull a loaded trailer. The last modern offering I remember is the late 90s Ford F150, and all of the offerings were girly 2WD versions, with the exception of Lingberg, who was at least smart enough to offer theirs as a 4x4. I have seen numerous times in the pages of this forum that serious truck builders want 4x4 diesel powered towing rigs and Meng is the only one that seems to be listening. Maybe if AMT and Revellogram would get out of Reissueland and get with the times, maybe we would see more modern offerings from domestic sources instead of 70s era kits, some of which are older than I am! Maybe even if Revellogram or AMT would offer some new parts in the reissues (such as they did with the snow plow) and give us a choice of 2WD or 4x4, maybe some would buy the kit just because they could have the long awaited 4x4 version they've wanted but never felt (or have the skills) like modifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) The last modern offering I remember is the late 90s Ford F150, and all of the offerings were girly 2WD versions, with the exception of Lingberg, who was at least smart enough to offer theirs as a 4x4. Those trucks all started as promotional models. The version of truck offered was determined by the 1:1 truck manufacturer who placed the order. It had nothing with being 'smart enough'. And those trucks didn't sell well enough to justify investing they're own money in tooling up new trucks once the promo orders dried up. Believe it, if models of brand new trucks sold like hotcakes, the manufacturers would be there to take the money. Maybe if AMT and Revellogram would get out of Reissueland and get with the times, Round 2, the current owners of AMT and Lindberg, bought both companies not that long ago, so they have a huge debt tied up in the current tooling that they acquired. It makes absolute business sense that they are concentrating on using that tooling for reissues. It would be dumb to have paid money for it, to let it sit. Edited March 13, 2014 by Tom Geiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Those trucks all started as promotional models. The version of truck offered was determined by the 1:1 truck manufacturer who placed the order. It had nothing with being 'smart enough'. And those trucks didn't sell well enough to justify investing they're own money in tooling up new trucks once the promo orders dried up. Believe it, if models of brand new trucks sold like hotcakes, the manufacturers would be there to take the money. Round 2, the current owners of AMT and Lindberg, bought both companies not that long ago, so they have a huge debt tied up in the current tooling that they acquired. It makes absolute business sense that they are concentrating on using that tooling for reissues. It would be dumb to have paid money for it, to let it sit. On point #1, and if they were to offer some new trucks that would be worth my money, such as Meng is doing with the newer F350 and Moebius is doing with heavy commercial trucks, I would more than happily hand my money over for them to take! Even Aoshima is smarter than the American companies offering what at least interests me, I have not one but two of there US versions of the mid 90s Toyota trucks. Why did I buy them?? THEY ARE 4X4S!! Aoshima at least also gives the builder a choice in how to build the truck too, because on I have I traded for here, knowing full well that the super nicely done Super Swamper tires were already taken from the kit, but since I wanted to build a stock 4x4 truck, that was no issue, and Aoshima makes that an option that requires no extra effort on my part. They were smart enough to keep the stock suspension pieces in the lifted kit version, all I have to supply is a suitable wheel and tire for a stock truck. I may be in my own little world, but to me a 2WD truck is just worthless unless it's a 1 ton that can pull a gooseneck trailer, and even then, I'd rather have a 4x4. It is also the same way in the heavy trucks, why would I want an old, outdated 70s era 40' reefer trailer when I pull a 53' Great Dane just like Moebius' new reefer trailer every day that I'm at work?? Now on to point #2, in no way, shape, or form, did I ever say reissues are bad nor will I ever say that. I'm just saying that it would also be nice to see some new tooling along with the reissues, and AMT (sorry, round2 ) and Revellogram just seem to be happy being stuck in Reissueland when they could also be following Meng and Moebius' leads and giving truck modelers (big and small) more of what they want! Sure, there are reissues from both (AMT's vans and Revellogram's 1/16 scale rigs and the Peterbilt wrecker) that are high on my "Must Buy" list just because the kit may have not been around since before I was born or something I built as a younger builder that I would like to build again. That is illustrated perfectly by the reissue of the 1/16 scale General Lee reissued a few years ago. That was the first model I ever had at age 8, and I had to wait almost 30 years to replace the original I lost in a fire in 1997 and to build it again not only to bring back some childhood memories, but to build it again with the years of experience I have developed. Is it simply too much to ask to get a new issue of something I might pass on the road or be in the fuel island next to me at the truck stop or maybe a truck I'm driving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronw Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Tom, are you sure about the promotional nature of those truck kits? The snap Dodges and Chevy Dually I can see as promos, but most of the others are full detail kits and not very promo like. I am positive that the Revell 37 Ford, 41 Chevy, 50 Ford, AMT 50 and 60 Chevy were not promos, well anyway pretty sure, because of they were promos they were very late on delivery. Edited March 13, 2014 by Aaronw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatswhatshesaid Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 . And I do realize that I am comparing a kit from over 35 years ago to something more modern, but the discussion is on price. If we want our kits to be more detailed and accurate, we have to be willing to pay for them! . BINGO!! Someone gets it! Somewhere is the happy medium between piece count/detail and price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrGlueblob Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Current more-or-less average for Revell, AMT, etc. -Around $20 give or take. Kits are still at swap meets in $10-20 range. Meng needs to make money, of course. Not at $70 ..$35 maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fractalign Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I was not aware there were not many late model pick ups being offered, I actually prefer the early stuff which is even more scarce. Having said that, the fact that the majors are reluctant to release new pickup kits by claiming there is not enough of a market is a bit hypercritical. How do they determine market demand? This topic proves there is market demand for such a kit. The fact that a Chinese company has the nerve to charge 70 dollars for their own version proves there is a market as well. I should also add that it is so typical of a Chinese company to charge top dollar for a product that based on their own costs is minimal. Its impossible for any other nation to compete with these guys. There is no doubt the the majors are completely out of touch with what modellers actually want and given the ruthlessness of the Chinese companies it will only be a matter of time before they either go out of business or sell out to them altogether. Edited March 13, 2014 by fractalign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I am positive that the Revell 37 Ford, 41 Chevy, 50 Ford, AMT 50 and 60 Chevy were not promos, well anyway pretty sure, because of they were promos they were very late on delivery. Gotcha! The 1950 Chevy was actually done as a promo for an anniversary... possibly the 50th? That's why there is a snap version. The rest of the pickups were done as kits in the modern era along with the Revell 1964-5 Chevy pickups. They're all nice kits that I love to death and I believe were pretty well received by the hobby. The other 'modern' trucks of that era did indeed have promo roots. Just go through the promo category on eBay and you'll find the Ford Expedition and assorted Chevy Blazers, S10 pickups etc as promos. They still sell in the $10-20 range at shows so they're a great bargain if you want to blow them apart to paint and detail out as kits. While Round 2 has not gotten to creating new tools for the automotive / truck markets, Revell's current new kit strategy is to create timeless classics that they feel will sell in their catalog forever. Things like the '32 Fords, '49 Mercs, '70 Nova, '57 Fords and yes, the Fox Mustang. With the kit market being very small compared to back when we were kids, new tools need to be amortized over several issues and reissues. Back when we were kids, the market absorbed enough product that they could risk putting out a kit like an annual, that would have a limited shelf life. In fact back in the day, at year's end the annuals were put on clearance since they didn't expect anyone to ever want them again. And that tool was then modified into the next year's vehicle, most of the time financed by a promo order. The US manufacturers don't have that luxury any more! Edited March 13, 2014 by Tom Geiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Gotcha! The 1950 Chevy was actually done as a promo for an anniversary... possibly the 50th? That's why there is a snap version. The rest of the pickups were done as kits in the modern era along with the Revell 1964-5 Chevy pickups. They're all nice kits that I love to death and I believe were pretty well received by the hobby. The other 'modern' trucks of that era did indeed have promo roots. Just go through the promo category on eBay and you'll find the Ford Expedition and assorted Chevy Blazers, S10 pickups etc as promos. They still sell in the $10-20 range at shows so they're a great bargain if you want to blow them apart to paint and detail out as kits. The AMT '90s trucks did have promo versions, but I don't recall any of the Revell ones (other than the Expedition snap kit) having promos (the '97-00 Fords, the '99 Silverado). It will be nice to see the Meng F350 truck kit....but definitely would like to see more, like the current Ram, Silverado, Sierra, Raptor, etc. With the most recent kits being nearly 15 years old or more, there really isn't anything late model available... Edited March 13, 2014 by Rob Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronw Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Gotcha! The 1950 Chevy was actually done as a promo for an anniversary... possibly the 50th? That's why there is a snap version. The rest of the pickups were done as kits in the modern era along with the Revell 1964-5 Chevy pickups. They're all nice kits that I love to death and I believe were pretty well received by the hobby. The other 'modern' trucks of that era did indeed have promo roots. Just go through the promo category on eBay and you'll find the Ford Expedition and assorted Chevy Blazers, S10 pickups etc as promos. They still sell in the $10-20 range at shows so they're a great bargain if you want to blow them apart to paint and detail out as kits. While Round 2 has not gotten to creating new tools for the automotive / truck markets, Revell's current new kit strategy is to create timeless classics that they feel will sell in their catalog forever. Things like the '32 Fords, '49 Mercs, '70 Nova, '57 Fords and yes, the Fox Mustang. With the kit market being very small compared to back when we were kids, new tools need to be amortized over several issues and reissues. Back when we were kids, the market absorbed enough product that they could risk putting out a kit like an annual, that would have a limited shelf life. In fact back in the day, at year's end the annuals were put on clearance since they didn't expect anyone to ever want them again. And that tool was then modified into the next year's vehicle, most of the time financed by a promo order. The US manufacturers don't have that luxury any more! Did not know that, that does explain the 1950 snap kit, found it odd that AMT had both a snap and full glue kit of the same truck (actually 3 separate kits when you include the custom version they did). I was referring to your comment that all truck kits were promos. Yes many are snap kits that are easy to believe started off as a promo, but there are quite a few that show no obvious promo lineage. Revell late 80's Ford F250/350, AMT early 90's Ford F150, Revell 1999 Chevy Silvarado are three that immediately come to mind. Obviously many of the older trucks kitted in the 90s and 2000s were not promos, so they must have felt there was some money in older trucks at least. Honestly I'd be just as happy with a 1964 Dodge truck as a 2014 Dodge truck of that is their comfort zone. Plenty of holes left to fill with older trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I was referring to your comment that all truck kits were promos. Yes many are snap kits that are easy to believe started off as a promo, but there are quite a few that show no obvious promo lineage. Revell late 80's Ford F250/350, AMT early 90's Ford F150, Revell 1999 Chevy Silvarado are three that immediately come to mi The AMT '92-93 F-150s had promo versions. The Revell kits did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I'm not the expert, and although I love pickups, they're the kits of earlier ones. I haven't paid much attention to the 1990s on up ones much. A quick walk through the eBay promo section finds 1995 S10 Blazers, 1996 GMC Jimmy, 1995 Tahoe, 1993 Chevy C-1500 extended cab pickup, 1991 & 1992 & 1993 Ford F150 pickups, 1988 &1991 & 1992 Chevy Silverado Sportside & regular side, 1994 Dodge Ram, 1998 Dodge Dakota, 1994 S-10 4x4 pickup, 1993 Ranger STX 4x4. And there's a ton available in 1/24 and 1/25 scale diecast. Some of it is OOP, but that never stopped us. If you want the truck, a diecast taken apart and rebuilt is indeed a model. This is just scratching the surface, I compiled the list below without ever getting past auctions expiring within one day: 1995 Chevy c-1500 Pace Truck (I think these were Brookfield) 1996 Chevy Express Van, 1993 Suburban pace truck (diecast - Ertl) 1997 Suburban Brookfield, New Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo (Maisto), Range Rover (Bburago), Land Rover Discovery, Land Rover Defender, 2010 Ford F-150STX (Maisto), Land Rover (Bburago), Mercedes G (Welly), BMW X5, Late Model Chevy Tahoe (Jada), Hummer H2 Wagon (Jada), Range Rover Evoque (Welly), 2000 Suburban (Jada), 2002 GMC Yukon Denali (Jada) 1995 Chevy CK Dually (Sunnyside), Ford F-650 Super Duty (Motor Max), GMC Bucket Truck (DG Productions), VW Touareg (Bburago), 2003 Ford Expedition (Jada), Porsche Cayenne, and there are many large trucks in diecast simply marked as "From China" in the diecast category. There's a full size Toyota bus, large straight trucks, forklifts, a couple of different large truck tractor / trailer cabs, a cement mixer all in 1/24, and priced around $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelbuilder Mark Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I wonder what the chances are that one of the domestic companies could actually "contract" to have MENG produce some for the US in US boxes? Aren't most of the kits made now molded in China anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) The problem w/ the promos, like the kits, is that they are old--'80s-90s vintage. Not late model....and a problem w/ many of diecast in 1/24 and 1/25 (esp. Maisto and Welly) is they often are underscale (wierd box scales like 1/27th) and have toy like features (esp. the Jada, which often have strange proportions and oversized cartoon wheels and tires). Edited March 14, 2014 by Rob Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgrgbldr Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I agree with most that the new Meng F-350 will be very expensive at the projected $75 price but let's get real. I was at the local hobby shop yesterday and the shelves are fill with kits that were tooled 30 or more years ago and every one of those kits is selling for $26 to $31 dollars so lets get real. Most of those kits were made back in the days before corporate America decided it need a piece of every item sold with their name on it. Mack and Caterpillar along with the Union Pacific railroad were some of the earliest companies to jump on this band wagon. There was a time when the car companies commissioned promo models which is paid for most of the research and tooling costs. Now the model company does all the research, pays tooling cost and licensing cost. If you want to know the other reason that new models cost so much go look in a mirror. Modelers today are spoiled, we want every part to fit without effort, be the perfect shape size and thickness and we want every possible option available that was available on the real vehicle. We demand perfection but we are not willing to accept the cost for perfection and when a new kit comes out every one wants to immediately blast the model company for any small error or compromise they made to give us the kit. Will I buy the new Meng kit, absolutely I bought their new D9 kit and it was worth every nickle I paid for it. Will I ever see this as a 1/24 or 1/25 scale kit, no, why, because modelers will not pay the price. If anyone out there thinks they can do a better job I challenge you to invest $75,000 to $100,000 of your own money to research develop and produce a kit and pray that people buy it. That is my two cents worth I will now get off my soap box and go back to model building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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