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3D Modelling anyone?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Just wondering if anyone is into 3D modelling using engineering software. I'm currently working on one and I will probably scratchbuild it in 1/24th scale after I get around to generating detail drawings. I used PTC Creo 2.0 and washed the model through Keyshot:

EngineProject75_zps5406e64f.jpg

Cut-away of engine:

cut_awayenginecomplete77_zps5b0010d7.jpg

Roller:

Super7Roller170_zps1244fa09.jpg

Super7Project163_zps51f22fd6.jpg

Edited by mikevillena

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Posted · Report post

Very nicely done. I think you may find this sight interesting, if you don't already know about it. https://grabcad.com/home I have to create stl files in order to print out model car parts. Here is a frame I drew up, printed out and mostly assembled.

post-3408-0-62066600-1399901813_thumb.pn

post-3408-0-73783400-1399901863_thumb.pn

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Posted · Report post

Great job!

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I use Unigraphics NX at work for stuff that pays the bills and at home for personal projects.

Here are a few screen shots of an Astro van I am building and a '31 model A I am getting started on. These are 1:1 "models". The Astro is almost a roller with a full frame and the Model A is just a body with all of it's outside parts stored inside the body.

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I used my '31 to get overall dimensions and pulled some of the unimportant details from a 1/16th kit. The frame will be rolled from 2" DOM and I am planning a 331 Caddy for power.

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Mark

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Posted · Report post

That's some beautiful work! I use 3DS Max and know what a job that is!

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I use Unigraphics NX at work for stuff that pays the bills and at home for personal projects.

Here are a few screen shots of an Astro van I am building and a '31 model A I am getting started on. These are 1:1 "models". The Astro is almost a roller with a full frame and the Model A is just a body with all of it's outside parts stored inside the body.

attachicon.gifASM, SWAY BAR-REAR-6.jpg

attachicon.gifASM, SWAY BAR-REAR-1.jpg

I used my '31 to get overall dimensions and pulled some of the unimportant details from a 1/16th kit. The frame will be rolled from 2" DOM and I am planning a 331 Caddy for power.

attachicon.gif28ja14_TOTAL VEHICLE-1.jpg

attachicon.gif28ja14_TOTAL VEHICLE-2.jpg

Mark

That looks great Mark!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Very nicely done. I think you may find this sight interesting, if you don't already know about it. https://grabcad.com/home I have to create stl files in order to print out model car parts. Here is a frame I drew up, printed out and mostly assembled.

Those parts look superb Doug. What's the resolution like on the printed parts? I've been eyeing a home printer that's around 2 grand although I don't have the money for it :lol: I uploaded the engine files to Grabcad about 6 months ago and it took ages as the engine is comrpised of around 900 individual parts. I didn't have any dimensions or drawings to work from and I've never designed an engine before so I had to learn. The chassis is a loosely based on Colin Chapman's Lotus 7

Creo snapshot:

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frontsuspension78_zpsc2370530.jpg

RadiatorAssembly2_zps966ded10.jpg

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untitled21_zps08d1e01e.jpg

Cylinder head cutaway:

untitled67_zpscd7b6d73.jpg

Edited by mikevillena

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Posted · Report post

Just some quick notes regarding 3d modelling and 3d printing:

There has been much discussion, pro and con, regarding 3d modelling and subsequently printing out parts to create scale models. Since CAD tools are used to design the real 1:1 subjects, it only seems natural that scale models can also be rendered/created the same way. Printing out the parts using suitable materials that can withstand temperature changes, and maintain structural integrity over time, accept glue and paint, and printed with reasonable quality and cost, is another matter; at least for the time being. If cost is not a consideration, then most of the cons mentioned above are no longer an issue, if you outsource the print job to a vender having an SLA industrial-quality printer. If you have been following the development of personal 3d printers (Makerbot, Up, etc..) you will quickly see that many owners of these printers rely on others' .stl files to create frogs, owls, whistles, and similar gigitry. In other words; the printer is a toy. The ability to create 3d models worthy of printing seems to be the greatest obstacle for most people who own printers. Obviously this thread showcases outstanding talent that is not as typical or commonplace as you might think. As a designer working in the automotive field, I can tell you that the greatest challenge for people wanting to create 3d models of cars, will be in aquiring the skills to create class-a surfaces for the bodies. Class-a is a term used to describe automotive surfaces that reflect highlights correctly, and balanced proportions that imitate the 1:1 subject. This is not an easy thing to do for the 1:1 cars, and I suspect it's the same for scale models. Check out the scale cars on any download site, take a look at a car you are familiar with, and you will see what I mean.

Here's the good news: Hi-end CAD is getting more affordable. 3d scanners are still pricey, but steadily coming down. The modelling skills shown here in this thread clearly illustrate the talent needed to learn advanced modeling used to create exterior surfaces.

In my humble opinion, 3d modeling and printing is coming; it's only a matter of time; probably sooner than later. The technology will not be the constraint in creating and printing 3d scale models; it's the CAD/design skills. If you want to consider this as an extension of your hobby, start learning CAD now, and let the hardware affordability and quality catch up with you.

Ken

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Posted · Report post

wow...this stuff is just amazing!!

and to think when I started in '61 with my tube glue and bottle paint...

maybe in the next 10 years or so i'll be able to 3D model at home like makin decals on the Alps printer... lol

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Yes Sir, Ken nailed it! As I have been saying in the MANY threads on this board about 3D printing, having a printer is useless unless you can create the 3D CAD models to print.

The stuff Mike is doing is beautiful work. He is doing a lot of photo-realistic stuff that I have never done. Working for GM I have never had the programs to convert the files to a photo-realistic format. NX has some "canned" visibility options but nothing like what Mike is doing. I basically design the 3D models, make whatever drawings I need and then take those to the shop to build the parts.

Having had a few parts printed I can also relate to the quality of an STL printed part. They not as perfect as most people think they are. There are a couple of other threads where this was discussed in depth so I won't get into here but a printed part really needs to be prepped and resin cast to be strong and usable part.

Mark

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Posted · Report post

Gasp! Sheesh! more stuff to learn. This stuff and the people that can do it amaze me.

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I fully agree with both Ken and Mark. I have an extensive background in mechanical drafting (got my drafting certificate back in 1980) and I have worked as a designer (contract) so it is relatively easy for me. The core of 3D modelling is done in Creo 2.0 and I simply export the Creo configured files to Keyshot where I can add textures and colours as I see fit. One doesn't have to have a degree in engineering but it does require training and practice with whatever software not to mention a good and functional understanding of basic mechanical drafting and the principles of orthographic projection. So it takes more than simply having a 3D printer. Thank you for the compliments guys. And brilliant work from both of you as well. :D

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Posted · Report post

Beautifully detailed models.

I'm into 3D modeling too I use Blender 3D.

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In my humble opinion, 3d modeling and printing is coming; it's only a matter of time; probably sooner than later. The technology will not be the constraint in creating and printing 3d scale models; it's the CAD/design skills.

Amen! Many folks think they'll just point a scanner at a 1:1 car and a model kit will pop out their 3D printer. Nope. 3D modeling in CAD is a profession and the charge into this technology is being done by guys who do this professionally, using their skills in the hobby. And as far as 'everyone' having a 3D printer, I think it will be more in the realm of the percentage of modelers who own a lathe today, another professional tool that has a long learning curve. I know people who bought lathes but didn't realize, nor want to invest the time, in the discipline. They pretty much spent their time making metal shavings and gave up. You can buy some low mile lathes today!

I am an old CAD guy, starting out with Intergraph Interact and Auto-Trol GS100 back in the early 1980s. Back then we were doing 2D drafting in the petrochemical industry. I never did move forward into the 3D disciplines so I couldn't do the work here today, nor do I have a desire to invest the time in learning it for the hobby today, just as I avoided the lathe. If I had wanted to be a machinist, I would have gone into that trade. But that doesn't keep me from understand and admiring the level of skill demonstrated in this thread!

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@ Tom - I am an ancient draftsman as I was trained to generate 2D drawings using a straight edge, mechanical pencils, Steadler triangles and french curves. I used to drive my drafting professor crazy because I would add shading to my isometric drawings. I learned CAD using AutoCAD version 2 (I think) with a mouse and tablet. Nowadays, I have AutoCAD 2013, Inventor PRO, PTC Creo 2.0 and Keyshot installed on my laptop. AutoDesk (AutoCAD 2D & 3D) and PTC (Creo) can be downloaded and used for free IF you are a student and have a valid school I.D. and/or e-mail account. I am an adjunct faculty member at my locl community college so I have easy access. 3D solid modelling isn't really difficult if you've had 2D experience. Essentially you are either extruding or revolving shapes. In truth even the most complex shapes can be broken down into simple shapes such as a cylinder, cube, pyramid, cone, etc. The same holds true for scratchbuilding whatever the scale. I think you ought to give it a shot. :)

As to 3D printing, my budget is rather limited so I'll have to make do with what I have. My arthritic and clumsy 3D printer:

IMG_1180_zps0a7276e8.jpg

The software sometimes goes bonkers though..... :lol:

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I spent a good part of today preparing for this post. Mike, I checked out you engine on Grabcad on I am in complete awe. It is truely amazing. Youasked about resolution so I am going to post up pictures of some of my work. Ken, I am in agreement with most of what you said except having an acceptable material to print with. I started using hips this January and thus have a print that accepts paint, prints nicely, sands easily, etc. Mark, you crack me up. Your posts tell it like it is. The last post in Jordon's thread left me in stitches. Jonathon, I use Blender too. Tom, 3d printer are alot different than lathes. There is and tutorials everywhere. Remember, they are an open source product.

So who am I to make all these statments? I am a 69 year young man with. A degree in business, major in accounting. In otherwords, I'm an accountant. I have no education or training in anything reguarding 3d drawing or printing. I say this because I want people to understand that anyone with the mindset can accomplish what I have in the last 1 1/2 years. I taught myself to use Blender. I build my own printer. I taught myself to use the printer and fix it when it messes up. Be aware that they all mess up. Even the 2k ones and you better be able to correct the problem. I'm trying to keep this simple and not get side tracked. Onward to the examples.

The frame in my stl posted above. You have to learn orientation for the best print. I tried printing the frame rails and rear cross members as one print. Disaster. Support in all the hard to remove places and the print was plain garbage.

Back to the drawing board. Printed the rails seperate layin on their side. The result is the frame on my desk.

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The frame and front suspension pieces. Still some work to be done. There is built up build primer on some of the suspension pieces. The prints are cleaner that they appear. Notice how everything is semetical. 9 separete pieces for the frame itself, not counting suspension pieces. The front suspension will be functional and ant glued together.

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Parts I just printed today. The streight 8 engine block block for the 1934-36 LaSalle. These are exactly as they came from the printer. Notice that the one side had to be made into three prints as the orientation for the best print was not the same for all three. Notice the detail. I suppose I should tell you that these are all 1:18 and anything smaller would result in some peices being unprintable. I had to change the thickness on some of the arms of the suspension pieces as they were too thin and broke easily.

post-3408-0-36239400-1400129481_thumb.jp

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Here are more prints in process. The rear body section was made from 5 prints, the front and rear fenders and grill from 2 pieces in each. Then you have to sand and grind out the support with a motor tool. Again, notice how both sides of the grill frame and the body are semetrical.

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And lastly, the interior side panels and front seat pieces for my 59 Plymouth Sport Fury vert. These are 1:24. I have to do some cleanup and repainting on them yet, but you get the idea. Semetrical. The key word for me is semetrical.

All in all, the prints need some kind of finish work to them. Some alot, some little. The big thing for me is that I can produce a model, or models or parts that I would have a tough time scratch building. None of this can be done without being able to create a printable 3d file. The key word here is printable. Not all 3d files are printable. That's learning curve 1. Learning curve 2 is learning how to operate your printer. Learning curve 3 is learning how to print the best part. This, many times, involves going back to the 3d file and modifying it. So again, It all starts with being able to create the printable 3d file.

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Are your parts printed from ABS or PLA? I print with PLA, then use superglue for assembly. I use oil-based kilz primer (several coats) to fill in the layer grooves, then sand the parts. Works great. I can tell by the way you explain splitting your parts and using a dremel to remove support, and your points about fiddling with the printer, and printing larger scales, tells me that you have been experimenting with this for awhile.

One of these days I'll post some of my printed models. I specialize in Brass-Era cars, and I have several; all done in 1:12 scale. I have hesitated to show them on this forum, since most members are polystyrene builders. I should also add that I am in complete AWE of the scratchbuilding and detailing that goes on here! Stunning! If some of these scratchbuilders ever get a handle on CAD and 3d printing, no telling to what heights they may take us. Mike is what I would call an electronic scratchbuilder. Amazing stuff!!

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Are your parts printed from ABS or PLA? I print with PLA, then use superglue for assembly. I use oil-based kilz primer (several coats) to fill in the layer grooves, then sand the parts. Works great. I can tell by the way you explain splitting your parts and using a dremel to remove support, and your points about fiddling with the printer, and printing larger scales, tells me that you have been experimenting with this for awhile.

One of these days I'll post some of my printed models. I specialize in Brass-Era cars, and I have several; all done in 1:12 scale. I have hesitated to show them on this forum, since most members are polystyrene builders. I should also add that I am in complete AWE of the scratchbuilding and detailing that goes on here! Stunning! If some of these scratchbuilders ever get a handle on CAD and 3d printing, no telling to what heights they may take us. Mike is what I would call an electronic scratchbuilder. Amazing stuff!!

Ken, I print with high impact polystyrene aka hips. Same thing used for scratch building. Prints nicer than pla, sands better and easily glues with ca glue or even welds with mec. I use 1.75 filimant as I bought an E3D solid mental hot end at the begining of the year and thats what it uses. This one change plus switching to hipps improved my prints about 50 %. My heated bed is 220mm on the x axis and 320mm on the y. That's about 8.25 x 12.5 inches. Printing with hips is similar to printing with abs. Hot end needs to be 225 to 230 degrees C and the heated bed a steady 110 degrees C. I have found that using Bondo spot and glazing putty works great for filling low spots and grooves. Than I finish off using build primer and then a black guide coat before wet sanding with 400 wet or dry paper. Just like preparing a real car for paint. I don't get deep groove as I print with a .2 layer height for larger pieces and .1 for smaller.

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Doug, those are superb parts! Contrary to what the uninitiated might think there is a lot of thought, planning and engineering involved in designing parts for 3D printing. This technology is certainly impressive but ultimately it still comes down to the builder's skills to pull everything together into a finished and convincing scale model. You have certainly showed the way! :D

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Here are a few things that I have drawn and printed here at IRC 3D Imaging and in the last 6 months we have been able to get the machine work a lot better with some new programing and made a big brake though to do scrip lettering in .1x.3 mm high resolution for detail that other company's are still trying to figure out with out doing them in SLA machine.

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