caine440 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I have only seen the cross ram used in rare photos of early 1970. I have a couple DVDs from the 70 season and none show the cross ram on the Pro Stock cars, but with all the classs they ran with the different combos who knows. There is a great scene where they are testing intakes and the one they were testing was a single 4bbl. No idea what class that would have been for. Landy also started with the cross ram and soon replaced it. I used a 6 pack type scoop on my 70 build as I saw the same thing you did in all the old photos I have. I have seen one photo where the car was sporting a front and rear spoiler which I had never seen before. Everytime I think I have seen it all someone finds a rare photo from back then that teaches me even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Understand that I haven't actually seen the kit, just box art. I'm also basing my comments on what I read in this thread. There were actually two 70 P/S S&M Cuda's (as well as Dusters) One Cuda had chrome bumpers and the other had an Endura front bumper. I have a picture around here with S&M posing in front of two transporters loaded with both Cuda's and Dusters. I also have an S&M catalog which shows a background picture of a Body-in White 70 Cuda next to a brand new Hemi Cuda street car. They stated that it was easier to start with a stripped shell and transfer all of the required stock components to the shell than to strip a street car to build the race car. This is very common practice today, but fairly uncommon then, especially on what was primarily an SS car built for heads up competition. No onto the kit based on what I know of it. The real cars (at least in legal NHRA P/S trim) used cross ram manifolds in 70. I read in the first post in this thread that the kit had a tunnel ram. Is that true? S&M may have used a TR later in the year or for match racing, but all of my references show a cross ram in 70. Second, the box art shows a hood scoop with an open front. The 70 car in all of my pics shows a standard Six Pack scoop. FYI the fiberglass parts for the S&M cars came from A&A Fiberglass here in Atlanta. I can confirm that the hoods that came from A&A had standard Six Pack scoops. again, for match racing anything goes, so the pictured scoop may have been used. If the above inaccuracies are true, then the aftermarket needs to come to our aid with a correct intake and hood at least. EDIT- I just Googled the Cuda and I see pictures of the car restored and it indeed looks like it had a TR and opeen front scoop. Revell must have looked at the restored car and included parts that weren't on the car in it's most raced configuration . Like several other modelers, writers, kit builders et al, I had been campaigning for years for Revell to do a correct '70 'cuda. As part of that effort, I sent them an entire copy of the Popular Hot Rodding Feature of this car called "Chariots of the God" by respected author Paul Zazarine that appeared in October 2008 issue. (pp. 54-58). I pointed out to Revell how little it would take to do a 1970 spec S&M 'cuda as a second version of the kit idea. I would presume that they tracked down the owner of that car, in that condition, and based the kit on that car, as it appears to be (based on a quick inspection) a duplicate of the car in that condition. BTW the article text also states "A six-barrel, lift -off fiberglass hood was fabricated by Sox and Martin for the Hemi 'cuda." The article also reports that the car was restored by the then-owner, musclecar collector Todd Werner of St. Petersburg, FL, to "as raced" condition. The article generically mentions the quality and accuracy of his restorations. The article also shows the resto as being signed by Ronnie Sox, Herb McCandlees (sp?), and others; presumably they would not have done that if the resto was way off base. Now we all know that "as raced" varies from race to race during the year, but in this case what we should be referring to in reviewing the kit is, it would appear to be, this specific car and build condition. By the way, there are many images from that specific article on the web with a quick Goggle image search, including good shots of the engine compartment as mentioned in the above post. Hope this helps...TB Edited June 23, 2014 by tim boyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Anyone have pics of the new parts in this release? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) It looks like the kit is based on the car that was restored around 2005-2006 that I beleive currently resides in the W.P. Chrysler Museum, and it seems to be a pretty accurate representation of that. I'm guessing that's the same car mentioned by Tim in his post above. Whether or not that restored car is an NHRA, ARHA, match race or whatever car I'm not sure. Here's a period photo of it in action, judging by the lack of numbers I'd guess that it's a match race car, but that appears to be an AHRA shield on the C pillar. - Edited June 23, 2014 by Brett Barrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Anyone have pics of the new parts in this release? Rob...I'll try to post some pix later today or tomorrow...TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Anyone have pics of the new parts in this release? Rob...I'll try to post some pix later today or tomorrow...TIM Me too, I should have mine this afternoon or the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutaFocus Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Judging by the picture above, it looks like the original six pack scoop was cut open. So it was probably a modification done later in the season. I lived in SE Pa as a kid and made many trips to Englishtown. I saw the 70 run, and I do remember the crossram, but I also realize they were race cars and they changed throughout the season. I can admit when I'm wrong, it looks like it did run during the 70 season in the configuration shown on the box art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pol Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Looks good how about the oil pan does it have the tie rod going threw it like the real deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 You guys got me thinking more about this one...checked my references and there's an article on the gorgeous Bill Bagshaw "Red Light Bandit" '70 Pro Stock Challenger in the April, 2013 issue of Mopar Collectors Guide. It's not the same car, but a similar Mopar and run during the same time period. Quoting from that article...."One thing that was gone [prior to the resto] was the special hood scoop, which reportedly had been fabricated with some leftover Shelby stuff Butler had on hand in 1970. Bill recalls, 'in those days, there were no tunnel rams yet; we had an IR (individual runner) setup, but there was still no room for the carbs under the Six Pack scoop E Boyd hood we'd gotten from Chrysler. One thing we did about six weeks after that first race was change the hood to accommodate that. Ron pointed the clearance problem out to me, said we need to fix that, and we had an extra acid dipped hood there, so he rigged up something that was higher and the car picked up 2mph! I said '"I guess you're right.'" This would seem to confirm a couple points above, including the possibility that the S&M hood scoop was altered at some point during the season to likewise create clearance for the IR manifold and carbs. BTW, the Revell 'cuda kit includes that individual runner manifold setup. TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Looks good how about the oil pan does it have the tie rod going threw it like the real deal? The deep sump oil pan has a notch/cutout for the tie rod. Exact builders will want to augment/improve that feature with a through-the-oil-pan clearance tube. TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMPALASS89 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Tim I have this kit bought it friday and like you said the oil pan has a cut on both sides for the tie rods and center link to go through. and for some reason the only two parts I didn't find in the kit is the stock hood and th shaker scoop and I think only two stock tires for the front. On the Mustang drag car it has all the stock parts to do a stock version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 The deep sump oil pan has a notch/cutout for the tie rod. Exact builders will want to augment/improve that feature with a through-the-oil-pan clearance tube. TB When I first saw that in the kit I thought it was for an old-school metal axle. Took me a minute to remember the real cars had the tie rod running through the pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutaFocus Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Here is a scan of a magazine article on the 70 Cuda. It shows the original Six Pack scoop, but also an IR manifold with 4500's: I also ran across this picture of a 71 Cuda in what looks like 70 trim. It might be the converted 70 Cuda: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 If the Ronnie Sox site caine440 linked to is correct they ran a model year "71" at the calendar-year 1970 season-ending NHRA Supernationals. Could very likely be that they just stuck 71 parts on the existing 70 car to finish out the season, then built new 71 cars for the 71 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Tim I have this kit bought it friday and like you said the oil pan has a cut on both sides for the tie rods and center link to go through. and for some reason the only two parts I didn't find in the kit is the stock hood and th shaker scoop and I think only two stock tires for the front. On the Mustang drag car it has all the stock parts to do a stock version. There's no stock height rear springs since they're on the tree with the shaker hood and scoop. You've got the makings of a pretty mean Street Machine with this kit, though. I didn't get a chance to look at the Mustang drag car since all 3 from our RPP shipment sold out on Friday the day they came in, and I wasn't there until Saturday morning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 There's no stock height rear springs since they're on the tree with the shaker hood and scoop. You've got the makings of a pretty mean Street Machine with this kit, though. I have something like that in mind, maybe using the wide rear tires and Centerline mags from the MPC '74 (I have a bunch of the '80s blue street machine issue).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtx6970 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) I also ran across this picture of a 71 Cuda in what looks like 70 trim. It might be the converted 70 Cuda: I have the add that this picture is in,( no idea where right now ) and IMO, the grille and ft valance are airbrushed on. In print something just doesn't look right . And this is the only picture I have ever seen of the 1971 car with the sixpack style scoop. So in my gut I think it is the 1970 car just airbrushed to show the all new 1971 ft end Edited June 23, 2014 by gtx6970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caine440 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I always thought the same thing about that photo. Looks altered. Great thread guys and thanks for all the info. Very near and dear to my heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 It definitely has been airbrushed, but it might just be that the front was in shadow and they airbrushed it to pop it out a little. Might be something they threw together for the photo shoot. Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 OK guys, as requested, here are 25 images and commentary on the new kit. Thanks for all your input (some of which is included in my review). Best regards...TIM http://public.fotki.com/funman1712/first-look-at-all-n/new-revell-70-sox-a/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 No photos of even the new parts???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsipes Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Awesome. Much anticipated kit for me. Didn't know it was to be out just yet. I just ordered mine. Can't wait for it to hit my workbench, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 No photos of even the new parts???? It's all at the link....25 photos and text....TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Barrow Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Great job, Tim. I just walked in the door with mine about 5 minutes ago. One thing I noticed was the slicks are almost EXACTLY like the new AMT Parts Pack M&H Racemaster 10.50-15" slicks except they're made from a stiffer, shinier material and the "step" in the bead has been removed since the Revell wheels are a tick bigger than AMT's typical size. Same thing applies to the stock front tires and the AMT Pack Pack Goodyear Polyglas GTs. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if these came out of the same molds. Can't say that I blame them if they did, they're nice tires. I don't have any of the larger size "Jumbo" AMT Racemasters on hand, but I imagine they'd work if someone would like a little bigger slick. But these look fine to me at first glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbwelda Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 that was a great review and pictorial, Tim. One thing I really don't fathom is that deep sump oil pan...but with the proverbial axle hole in it (ok in this case I guess its for the tie rod but come on son!). maybe that gets hidden somehow? even though this car is pretty far from my interests, its still nice to be able to get a good look and historical perspective on these new releases. jb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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