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Auto ID #129 FINISHED!

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Posted · Report post

Remember, don't post any hints or answers here. PM me with year, make, and model.

autoid129_zps0b7314b4.jpg

The answer: 1940-41 KIM 10-50

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Posted · Report post

Awwww! Isn't that a cute little bugger? Woulda made a cool gasser. No idea what it is but it's cute…. :P

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Posted · Report post

I'm stumped no idea ^ he's right it's kinda cute :0

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Posted · Report post

Nope....., no idea....

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Posted · Report post

Good grief, it was rotter to find!

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Posted · Report post

This week's car is a 1940-41 KIM 10-50 (Russia).

http://azlk-avto.ucoz.ru/index/kim_10_50/0-8

Who got it right:

mr chips

MikeMc

DynoMight

GeeBee

Lovefordgalaxie

ChrisR

Johnag4004

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Posted · Report post

You missed me!

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Posted · Report post

You missed me!

Your guess was wrong... ;)

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Posted · Report post

I thought is was an old Opel or something....

Guess the stadium in the background misled me too....

Good one!

NEXT!!!!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Your guess was wrong... ;)

Well, that's embarrassing! It seems I typed in the date of the base model (opel), and not the russian variant. Doh.

Edited by otherunicorn

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Posted · Report post

Well, the car in the picture is a KIM-10. Saying it's a KIM-10-50 is like calling a '48 Ford a '46-'48 Ford. So, I think the correct answer is only saying 1940 KIM-10.

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Posted · Report post

" In 1940 KIM started to produce their first own model, the KIM 10-50 (two-door saloon) based on the Ford Prefect. There was also a convertible named KIM 10-51. Around 500 cars both KIM 10-50 and KIM 10-51 were made before the beginning of the Great Patriotic War. In the early 1941 approximately 2 prototypes of KIM 10-52 were built. It was a four-door saloon which was the major difference between KIM 10-52 and KIM 10-50. There were plans for mass production of this car but they were interrupted by the beginning of the war." 10-50 was the model variant.

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Posted · Report post

I never got close...

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Posted · Report post

Well, the car in the picture is a KIM-10.

According to my source (which I posted a link to), it's a KIM 10-50.

And from wikipedia (which Ken quoted above):

The construction of the plant called Moscow Car Assembly Factory (Russian: Московский автосборочный завод) began in 1929. In 1930 the production of Ford A and Ford AA from parts that were provided by Ford Motor Company began. In December 1930 the plant was named KIM (Zavod imeni Kommunsticheskogo Internatsionala Molodezhy, Russian: КИМ (Завод имени Коммунистического Интернационала Молодежи) - Communist Youth International, literally "Factory named after Communist Youth International"), from 1930 to 1939 its official name was Moscow Car Assembly Factory named after KIM (Московский автосборочный завод имени КИМ) and then from 1939 until the beginning of the Great Patriotic War it was called Moscow Car Factory named after KIM (Московский автомобильный завод имени КИМ). In 1933 the production of Ford A and Ford AA ceased. On August 1, 1933, the factory became a subsidiary of GAZ and produced GAZ AA using parts from GAZ. In 1939 KIM was no longer the subsidiary of GAZ. In 1940 KIM started to produce their first own model, the KIM 10-50 (two-door saloon) based on the Ford Prefect. There was also a convertible named KIM 10-51. Around 500 cars both KIM 10-50 and KIM 10-51 were made before the beginning of the Great Patriotic War.

And Ken... you were so close! Just one year off... ^_^

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Here's another version of the history, this time taken from a model site:

http://www.minicarweb.fr/en/161-kim

The Soviet company KIM was founded in 1929 and first assembled Ford A and AA. But in 1933, Gaz started producing the two models. The KIM 10-50, a copy of the Opel Kadett (but developed on the basis of a Ford Prefect), was launched in 1939. After the Second World War, the very low production of the 10-50 (and the 10-51 convertible) ceased, in favor of the Moskvich 400.

The Wiki entry says that the tooling for the Opel Kadett was carted off to Russia as war reparations... but that must have come several years later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Kadett

"From 1948, the prewar Kadett was manufactured as the Moskvitch 400/420 and continued to be produced, very little changed, on the edge of Moscow until 1956."

So what we appear to have is a 1940 Russian built "1939 Ford Prefect" that is a visual copy of a 1937-1940 Opel Kadett. By 1948, the Kim 10-50 was abandoned in favor of the genuine Opel tooling.

Edited by otherunicorn

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Posted · Report post

According to my source (which I posted a link to), it's a KIM 10-50.

And from wikipedia (which Ken quoted above):

The construction of the plant called Moscow Car Assembly Factory (Russian: Московский автосборочный завод) began in 1929. In 1930 the production of Ford A and Ford AA from parts that were provided by Ford Motor Company began. In December 1930 the plant was named KIM (Zavod imeni Kommunsticheskogo Internatsionala Molodezhy, Russian: КИМ (Завод имени Коммунистического Интернационала Молодежи) - Communist Youth International, literally "Factory named after Communist Youth International"), from 1930 to 1939 its official name was Moscow Car Assembly Factory named after KIM (Московский автосборочный завод имени КИМ) and then from 1939 until the beginning of the Great Patriotic War it was called Moscow Car Factory named after KIM (Московский автомобильный завод имени КИМ). In 1933 the production of Ford A and Ford AA ceased. On August 1, 1933, the factory became a subsidiary of GAZ and produced GAZ AA using parts from GAZ. In 1939 KIM was no longer the subsidiary of GAZ. In 1940 KIM started to produce their first own model, the KIM 10-50 (two-door saloon) based on the Ford Prefect. There was also a convertible named KIM 10-51. Around 500 cars both KIM 10-50 and KIM 10-51 were made before the beginning of the Great Patriotic War.

And Ken... you were so close! Just one year off... ^_^

Wikipedia is wrong... Again.

Want a proof?

The company that produced the Ford cars was called GAZ (Gorky Avto Zavod) and KIM was one of the plants, nothing more, producing the GAZ AA only (the GAZ A was produced in Gorky). Parts were NEVER provided from Ford, as importing parts was ILEGAL in Soviet Union, and almost all of them suffered some kind of redesign to better adapt to the Soviet conditions.

The car production started in 1932 and not in 1930.

In 1938 Kim was separated from GAZ to produce a new small car, to be priced in the low field. It was called the KIM-10

The car was originally planned for export too, and would be named KIM-50 on foreign markets, and in four door version only. A more plush version would also be produced for export, called KIM-52, and only 6 cars ever left the assembly plant. There were also a convertible version called KIM-51 (not practical for use in the CCCP). A car was pictured for a propaganda brochure with a plate saying "KIM-10-50" and that caused all the confusion about the car's name on western publications, specially taking in account that less than 450 cars were produced before the Great Patriotic War.

My source?

Automobile digest from CPSU (Communist Party of Soviet Union)

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Posted · Report post

Another cause for confusion was the final relatory of production, that included the "for export" models:

KIM-10 AND 50 plus KIM-10 AND 51 = 450 cars

KIM-10 AND 52 = 6 cars.

On western countries the cars became known as 10-50, 10-51 and 10-52, because of the plates on the brochures that included the Soviet nomenclature.

The KIM plant was bombed, and nothing survived from the machinery. That included almost all the paperwork.

The original industrial designs for the car were bought from Ford Motor Company. Again, most parts suffered some degree of redesign, mostly the suspension and electrical system.

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Posted · Report post

According to my source (which I posted a link to), it's a KIM 10-50.

And from wikipedia (which Ken quoted above):

The construction of the plant called Moscow Car Assembly Factory (Russian: Московский автосборочный завод) began in 1929. In 1930 the production of Ford A and Ford AA from parts that were provided by Ford Motor Company began. In December 1930 the plant was named KIM (Zavod imeni Kommunsticheskogo Internatsionala Molodezhy, Russian: КИМ (Завод имени Коммунистического Интернационала Молодежи) - Communist Youth International, literally "Factory named after Communist Youth International"), from 1930 to 1939 its official name was Moscow Car Assembly Factory named after KIM (Московский автосборочный завод имени КИМ) and then from 1939 until the beginning of the Great Patriotic War it was called Moscow Car Factory named after KIM (Московский автомобильный завод имени КИМ). In 1933 the production of Ford A and Ford AA ceased. On August 1, 1933, the factory became a subsidiary of GAZ and produced GAZ AA using parts from GAZ. In 1939 KIM was no longer the subsidiary of GAZ. In 1940 KIM started to produce their first own model, the KIM 10-50 (two-door saloon) based on the Ford Prefect. There was also a convertible named KIM 10-51. Around 500 cars both KIM 10-50 and KIM 10-51 were made before the beginning of the Great Patriotic War.

And Ken... you were so close! Just one year off... ^_^

Harry, take a look at the text from your source.

The author calls the car several times by KIM-10 only, using the original nomenclature. It's kind of obvious that even him is a bit confused with this detail.

For a person without access to printed material sent to members of the former CPSU, it wouldn't be possible to ID the car with 100% of accuracy. I just tried to find the correct info online and I couldn't. All sources had some kind of distortion. So, I agree with you on considering KIM-10-50 as correct.

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Posted · Report post

I agree that the story is pretty complicated, and it depends on which source you want to believe. My sources all said this was a KIM 10-50. Everyone who guessed 1940 or 1941 KIM got credit, whether they said KIM 10 or KIM 10-50. All except for Ken, who got the year wrong! ^_^

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Posted · Report post

And the best explanation I have found so far (a Czech website):

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cs&u=http://www.moskvichklub.cz/M-Kim.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKIM%2B10-50%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1580%26bih%3D1009

Translated from that website:

In April 1940, during a military tour, was first publicly presented three prototypes of the KIM 10. This show was also attended by representatives of the Soviet government, who watched the incident from the balcony of the government palace. Among them was Stalin and it was he who allegedly sent engineers the message that he did not like the KIM 10 because it had an outdated look. Design changes were made, and after this adjustment, the car got a new type designation KIM 10-50.

Adjustments related mainly to the front of the car. It got a completely new front opening bonnet (the original prototype KIM 10 version was opening from both sides up). The headlights are now part of the front face, in which they are embedded (the original version had the headlights on the upper part of the front fenders).

A total of 517 cars of brand KIM were manufactured from 1940-1945. Just for clarification:

1940: Three KIM 10 prototypes

1940-1941: 500 pieces of cars KIM 10-50 (two-door saloon) and 10-51 (convertible). How much is produced for each version separately is not specified.

1941: Two KIM 10-52 prototypes (four-door saloon). War stopped production.

After the war, in 1945: 10 pieces of the car KIM 10-50 and 2 pieces of KIM 10-52

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Posted · Report post

And the best explanation I have found so far (a Czech website):

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cs&u=http://www.moskvichklub.cz/M-Kim.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKIM%2B10-50%26safe%3Doff%26biw%3D1580%26bih%3D1009

Translated from that website:

In April 1940, during a military tour, was first publicly presented three prototypes of the KIM 10. This show was also attended by representatives of the Soviet government, who watched the incident from the balcony of the government palace. Among them was Stalin and it was he who allegedly sent engineers the message that he did not like the KIM 10 because it had an outdated look. Design changes were made, and after this adjustment, the car got a new type designation KIM 10-50.

Adjustments related mainly to the front of the car. It got a completely new front opening bonnet (the original prototype KIM 10 version was opening from both sides up). The headlights are now part of the front face, in which they are embedded (the original version had the headlights on the upper part of the front fenders).

A total of 517 cars of brand KIM were manufactured from 1940-1945. Just for clarification:

1940: Three KIM 10 prototypes

1940-1941: 500 pieces of cars KIM 10-50 (two-door saloon) and 10-51 (convertible). How much is produced for each version separately is not specified.

1941: Two KIM 10-52 prototypes (four-door saloon). War stopped production.

After the war, in 1945: 10 pieces of the car KIM 10-50 and 2 pieces of KIM 10-52

See what I told you about versions?

After the war, there was no plant or parts to make cars from. KIM was basically a hole in the ground. The installation was rebuilt using the material confiscated from the Opel plant as war reparation, and the only cars produced after the war were Moskvitch, not KIM anymore.

I think those internet journalists make things up as they write.

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