Ace-Garageguy Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Slipshod engineering done by people who don't have the requisite knowledge and experience, and who are out-ranked by bean-counters who don't know anything about anything but beans is an industry-wide problem. These numerous recalls speak for themselves, and verify the truth of my assertion. Chrysler Corp is not without its share of idiots either. I have one of their products in my home shop right now, and the stupidity of some of the engineering and design decisions that were made on the thing boggle the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 With the news about Ford's recall, it doesn't look like this holds true. And it goes to prove you shouldn't listen to the villian. They're never right. There's an old saying. If you point a finger at someone, you'll find three fingers pointing back at you. Scott I don't have a dog in this fight. I bought a '14 Civic 3 weeks ago. The only Ford's I have are 60's vintage Mustangs and I have rebuilt them from the ground up....so recalls on them are my fault!!!! But if I HAD to buy a GM or Ford today....I'd go with the odds.......50 million recalls for GM as of AUG.........could not find a total for Ford.....but the few I found totaled less than 2 million+-........I don't gamble....so Ford it'd be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldawg142 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) ... Edited May 11, 2018 by dieseldawg142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsepower Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I know a lot of people will jump on the GM dog pile and trash GM over these recalls, but they're at the mercy of subcontractors that submit an assembly for approval, and upon receiving this start supplying the parts to GM for assembly catching substandard pieces are found only on the receipt of a complaint, or when a random quality control check finds a problem. Then it is a process of finding out when the supplier started shipping out the substandard parts, and how many have actually been used in production. I applaud GM's decision to halt sales instead of proceeding with the sales of a car that is in high demand, then just notifying the owners of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) I know a lot of people will jump on the GM dog pile and trash GM over these recalls, but they're at the mercy of subcontractors that submit an assembly for approval, and upon receiving this start supplying the parts to GM for assembly catching substandard pieces are found only on the receipt of a complaint, or when a random quality control check finds a problem. Then it is a process of finding out when the supplier started shipping out the substandard parts, and how many have actually been used in production. Being "at the mercy of subcontractors" is rather like saying "the dog ate my homework". Something has a GM badge on it, it's GM's (or Ford's or Chrysler's, etc.) responsibility TO VERIFY PART QUALITY ON A CONTINUING BASIS. Excusing poor quality because of poor quality-control procedures doesn't get it; neither does placing the blame on subs. The BOSS of the job carries the responsibility for the quality of the job. Edited September 28, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Being "at the mercy of subcontractors" is rather like saying "the dog ate my homework". Something has a GM badge on it, it's GM's (or Ford's or Chrysler's, etc.) responsibility TO VERIFY PART QUALITY ON A CONTINUING BASIS. Excusing poor quality because of poor quality-control procedures doesn't get it; neither does placing the blame on subs. The BOSS of the job carries the responsibility for the quality of the job. Amen. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Being "at the mercy of subcontractors" is rather like saying "the dog ate my homework". Something has a GM badge on it, it's GM's (or Ford's or Chrysler's, etc.) responsibility TO VERIFY PART QUALITY ON A CONTINUING BASIS. Excusing poor quality because of poor quality-control procedures doesn't get it; neither does placing the blame on subs. The BOSS of the job carries the responsibility for the quality of the job. BRAVO!! That's the way my job was. Saying 'that's not my fault' got you fired. I saw it happen. When you cross 10 million recalls it becomes a REAL issue and not 'Piling on', Yes....my Honda Fit had a recall. BIG DIFFERENCE?? It was a performance issue. If the VTEC spring had broken the motor would be down on power. Honda issues recall. I take mine to one of the nation biggest Honda dealers. After recall complete I talk to mechanic. Had he found in broken spring in my motor??? NOPE....in fact in the 100+ recalls he had done not a single spring broke. BIG DIFFERENCE in that and death causing recalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I agree with you guys 100 percent. Also if the quality process is flawed it doesn't make a differnce whether it in house or subcontracted. Second when you have the bean counters wanting the subcontractors to make it cheaper quality is going to suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldawg142 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) ...... Edited May 11, 2018 by dieseldawg142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris guthro Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 its pretty bad when your buying a "domestic" vehicle but really getting an import! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 ... i still contend though- haters gonna hate And I still contend that EVERYONE in the design and engineering cycle (and this includes accounting and management personnel) in EVERY car company gets paid enough money, has a good enough working environment (good lighting, heat and AC, comfortable chairs to sit in front of their little computer work-stations in, and plenty of bottled water, coffee and croissants during meetings), and has good enough tools (state-of-the-art computers and design and engineering software) to get the VAST majority of this stuff RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. No, there's no perfect car, but there is plenty of stupid and un-necessary complication, and just plain misguided decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldawg142 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) ... Edited May 11, 2018 by dieseldawg142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 I dunno... I've been looking at cars and came across a 2006 Buick Lacrosse which I think is a good looking and comfortable car. It has 40.000 miles at a good price. But with all this mess I'm afraid to buy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclescott58 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) I dunno... I've been looking at cars and came across a 2006 Buick Lacrosse which I think is a good looking and comfortable car. It has 40.000 miles at a good price. But with all this mess I'm afraid to buy it! I wouldn't worry too much. I have a 2000 Buick LeSabre with about 115,000 miles that's been the greatest car I've own up to this point. It went though one recall when it was fairly new. But, the dealer did a great job of taking care of it, and me. I've owned serval General Motors products over the years. Mostly Buicks. They've all given me pretty good service. I've never regretted buying one of them. Now I've had one Mercury and a Plymouth that were different stories....... Scott Edited September 28, 2014 by unclescott58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) I dunno... I've been looking at cars and came across a 2006 Buick Lacrosse which I think is a good looking and comfortable car. It has 40.000 miles at a good price. But with all this mess I'm afraid to buy it! Here's a complaints list on the car, with additional info on subsequent screens. http://www.carcomplaints.com/Buick/LaCrosse/2006/ At first glance, it looks like a pretty good car. I'm sure there's much more data available online. Here's more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2006/buick/lacrosse/recalls/ Edited September 28, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Thanks. Actually looks good... It is part of the recent ignition switch recall. I don't have a hundred pound key wad so maybe I'd be okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldawg142 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) .... Edited May 11, 2018 by dieseldawg142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) and yet none of them vettes made it to the public, only 2 were defective, diff. is it's gm. their a zero for recalling cars that were'nt sold, honda is a hero for recalling cars already sold-makes no sense. you might want to talk to your mechanic, there's been 9 recalls issued for the Fit, & 4 since your spring issue. http://wemakeitsafer.com/vehicle-recall/Honda-FIT-Recall-9432398 as before, NO ONE builds the perfect vehicle, this is a way of life wether we like it or not, bean counters, outsourcing, who knows, whatever it takes to keep the monster rolling. just shows we the consumer need to do all our homework when purchasing (and leave the color choice to the wife). i still contend though- haters gonna hate Thanks for the heads up on Fit recalls....but 2009 Fit S types only have had the one VTEC recall. I am the original buyer and as such Honda stays in VERY good contact with me. And they have started the same communication with our new 2014 Civic coupe that is 3 weeks old. Quick and efficient communication has been one constant with all my Honda's going back to 1990 Civic....my first Honda. I would never try and convince anyone a company of any kind is perfect 100% of the time. Make a machine...it can break. (had more issues with my Mercedes Benz built Smart than any Honda) HOW they handle it and in a timely manner shows a different corporate culture. Edited September 29, 2014 by Dave Van Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Another day... another GM recall. Yes, another one! From CBS News this morning: General Motors announced Thursday that it is recalling 117,651 vehicles from the 2013 and 2014 model years for a defect that could cause them to stall. The recall involves the Chevrolet Tahoe, Suburban, Traverse, Express and Silverado; the Cadillac CTS, Escalade and Escalade ESV; the GMC Yukon, Yukon XL, Acadia, Savana and Sierra; and the Buick Enclave. GM said metal slivers in the chassis control module could cause an electrical short. If that happens, the vehicle could stall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Maybe they should just report when GM doesn't have a day without recalls. C Brings to mind the saying " always time to do it the right the second time around but never time to do it right the first time ". Edited October 3, 2014 by bobthehobbyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
om617 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Here is another recall from Ford, may12. 594,785 2013-'14 Ford Escape and C-Max vehicles because errors in the programming software may result in a delayed deployment of the side curtain airbag. http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2013-14-ford-escape-c-max-recalled-for-possible-airbag-deployment-delay.html If this is a thread about GM only i apologize. I just find demonizing a brand/corp ignorant when it happens to so many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 What is it with GM and metal slivers??? That was the issue with a few blown motors in new Vettes. But I see no real negative impact for GM......a good family friend I saw in town the other day showed me her new Chevy Equinox....when I asked about GM recalls causing any worries......this intelligent person that owns lots of real estate and businesses gave me a blank look.....'Recalls??'..... Full speed ahead GM.....no worries here!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I wouldn't worry about slivers, didn't a handful of Japanese and Korean cars have airbags with SPIDER related issues in the last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 I just find demonizing a brand/corp ignorant.... Posting news of the latest GM recall isn't "demonizing" GM. It's reporting the facts. If you want to start a Ford recall topic, go right ahead. GM has now recalled more vehicles this year alone than the total number they have sold in the last five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermodel Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 another 500000 recalls announced today.Caddy and saab rear suspension issues.72 different recalls this year alone. Somewhere around 10000000 vehicles .How can they afford this ?The shop hours alone is staggering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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