MCM Forum - expert work expected?

[DPNM]

Being we are referencing dictionary terms I would suggest this one when you wish to comment on another members build.

tact

[takt]

noun

1.

a keen sense of what to say or do to avoid giving offense; skill in dealing with difficult or delicate situations.

If you want to offer helpful advice by all means do. An explanation of how to do it would/could be useful. If you just want to criticize without trying to help the builder improve it seems to me it would be best not to comment. I have seen plenty of builds here where the builder is praised even though, in my opinion, it doesn't deserve it (bad/orange-peel paint etc). I have also seen builders raked over the coals for small details of omission or addition. When I find a build I like I comment on it positively. I do not think that I've ever posted a negative comment on a build but that is by choice, because I choose not to. Usually any negative comments I would make have already been posted by someone else so I do not need to pile on.

Criticism can be a good thing, depending on how it's given.

Just my 2 cents.

[chunkypeanutbutter]

Jim is absolutely right on. I was going to use the word "tact" as well but decided to see if somebody else would get it first

[KevinMoparFord]

Tact and maybe asking directly with a PM? I have sent someone a PM first asking if they want some pointers or tips, especially if it is a model I have built and have some knowledge of. Am I a pro builder no. This is a tough line with a forum or even a contest. I run into this with the real 1:1 cars, people ask to have a car judged, or what is wrong with their car, and then are all bent out of shape when they are told something is not right.

With a lesser quality build, tact is key. People need to offer suggestions on what would make it better without criticizing the person themselves. I still run into new builders at shows that will ask about BMF, or where did some of the detail items come from. It amazes me if you talk to people at show, not the ones you know already, but the people looking at particular details on kits, that they may have never been to an NNL or large show where they find out what is out there. You can get great conversations going and sometimes get someone to another event and that gets them excited and trying to build better. Telling anyone their work is bad or junk never helps anyone.

[dustym]

I dont post on here for 2 reasons.

1 I think I finshed 1 model in the last year.

2 too lazy to take pictures and post them.

lol.

tim

[highway]

I'm not sure why some of you think that I'm advising that only "attaboys" be posted. How many times have I referred to "constructive criticism" in my previous posts?

From Businessdictionary.com:

A recommended set of instructions that aims to collaboratively improve the overall quality of a product or service. Often containing helpful and specific suggestions for positive change,

From dictionary.com: Constructive criticism:

noun

criticism or advice that is useful and intended to help or improve something, often with an offer of possible solutions

From Collins English dictionary:

constructive (kənˈstrʌktɪv ) Definitions

adjective

1. serving to build or improve; positive ⇒ constructive criticism

And, I referred to being "courteous" to other modelers.

"Attaboys"? No, not hardly. Respect and dignity for others (including one's self; re, the politician to whom I referred) : Yes.

I'm well aware of the definition of "Constructive Criticism" and have gotten my head bitten off in the past even trying to help because the poster just wants the "attaboys" and obviously hasn't cared about improving their skills. That is why I don't bother with even looking in the "On the workbench" or "Under Glass" sections of this forum anymore.

Perhaps, you should check out the post to which I refer. And, if you "don't care", why are you reading these posts in the first place?

"Outstanding? Seriously? You don't see a problem with how the disc-brakes are sitting outside of the wheels instead of within them? & the exhaust pipes just floating underneath the chassis?": In one member's post, to another, about a third person's model.

As I just stated above, I don't care about the workbench or under glass sections and trying to offer help anymore, and I stated that before also. Also, seeing as how I avoid those sections, I'm not going to search around just to find what has your panties all in a bunch. If the quote above about the disc brakes is what has you in an uproar, from just that quote, I don't see your issue with the "constructive criticism" rule you keep bringing up, I see it as an opinion to someone else's post, not directed to the builder. Oh, that's right, opinions don't go over well with some here either!

[blunc]

carbunkle

Edited November 7, 2014 by blunc

[blunc]

I dont post on here for 2 reasons.

1 I think I finshed 1 model in the last year.

2 too lazy to take pictures and post them.

lol.

tim

gee... how did you work up the gumption to post about how you don't post?

[johnbuzzed]

Highway- well, I guess you don't get it either. Your loss, not mine. Maybe one day, you will. Have a good weekend.

Edited November 7, 2014 by johnbuzzed

[Ace-Garageguy]

[blunc]

...but it keeps moving every time I hit it...

[highway]

Highway- well, I guess you don't get it either. Your loss, not mine. Maybe one day, you will. Have a good weekend.

Oh I get it just fine, I guess I'm just a little more thick skinned than many here and can see things past the end of my nose and more objectively than most.

[Jantrix]

So from this I think we can all agree on this.

1. If you post up pics, you need to be prepared for criticism.

2. If you are going to offer criticism, please do so tactfully, without degrading the builder or his work.

3. Constructive criticism, is the way to go. Offer an alternative that will yield better results.

4. If the poster still gets his panties in a wad. Oh well.

Nuff said.

[bobthehobbyguy]

Well looks like the poor poster that got a rude awakening has stopped posting. But I guess the contingent that holds the belief that brutal honesty should be acceptable is happy because we don't want those thin skinned people cluttering up the forum.

Unfortunately we have all lost. We have been deprived of another perspective and interesting ideas from another member.

Edited November 8, 2014 by bobthehobbyguy

[Harry P.]

So from this I think we can all agree on this.

1. If you post up pics, you need to be prepared for criticism.

2. If you are going to offer criticism, please do so tactfully, without degrading the builder or his work.

3. Constructive criticism, is the way to go. Offer an alternative that will yield better results.

4. If the poster still gets his panties in a wad. Oh well.

Nuff said.

That sums it up just about perfectly, except one small point. In your point #1, it should say "If you post up pics, you need to be prepared for comments, both positive and negative (not necessarily criticism, but criticism if criticism is valid).

Otherwise... you got it.

[bobthehobbyguy]

If you are going with go with the agreed upon list above then the header above the workbench about making comments since it isn't true anymore.

[Harry P.]

If you are going with go with the agreed upon list above then the header above the workbench about making comments since it isn't true anymore.

That needs to be updated, and I will update it. Gregg put that language there some time ago to address a specific instance, trying to stop certain troublemakers who were making trouble on purpose. It was sort of a "spur of the moment" reaction from Gregg in an effort to address a specific problem at a specific time, but it needs to be revised.

[gtx6970]

Offering criticism when not asked for will drive potential members/posters away,,,mark my word.

I follow this board because I like to build model cars. Not because I care what one person thinks about anyone elses work,,, good or bad .

I may not agree with the style or theme of every build on here but I darn well will not tell another person what they 'should' or shouldn't like .

If the builder is happy with how said model turned out,,so be it. Who am I to tell him is paint job sucks or his tires are out of scale etc etc etc

[nitro norman]

I am relatively new here and I like the forum very much. I like seeing how others work and I like finding out about new products and where to get them. However , I am not new to the hobby. I have been building off and on since the sixties. I remember how I looked forward to the new issues of Car Model and Model Car Science each month. Jim Keeler, Hank Borger, Don Emmons and others were my teachers. I read Jim Keelers series of how to articles on building Dodge Fever 2 so many times that the magazines came apart. New modelers come on this forum and lookto the experienced modelers on this forum the same way I looked to those guys. I think we should all remember this.

New modelers must realize that learning to build good models takes time and patience. Don't be intimidated buy the super detailed expertly painted models on here. You'll get there. You must also realize that model car parts don't always fit the way they are suppose to. This is especially true of a lot of the older kits that are being reissued. Sometimes you have to fiddle with it. Always test fit before you glue anything.

We all get nostalgic about the old days, but truthfully, there has never been a better time to be a modeler than today. We have allthese great kits ( old and new ) to choose from. We have all these aftermarket parts, decals, paint, etc. And we have this forum where modelers new and old can come to see and learn. We should try to make it a pleasant experience. Those who post models should expect helpful criticism and everyone should leave their egos out of it.

[stitchdup]

Ok I'm new to the forum. I haven't had a bad experience here unlike one of the other model forums where I have been made to feel like I have no right to be there(shall remain nameless). I am also a member of other forums where I have been made to feel more welcome but thats just how life is. I think a beginners section for their builds could be the way to go in the future where criticism should only take place if it is asked for, and even then it should be tips on improving builds rather than just criticism for the sake of it. I know i get things wrong on my builds but thats why I ask for constructive criticism, as I think it would help my future builds. If you've evr been on a 1/1 forum you'll know how much worse it could be. On the whole I would say there are some who are a little snobbish but they are in the minority, but at the same time they are the ones who's comments will stand out, as a bad comment will take the shine of a compliment. I like it here so I'll be staying and I would like to thank you all for having me. Cheers folks, happy building

[southpier]

gtx6970, on 07 Nov 2014 - 8:50 PM, said:

....If the builder is happy with how said model turned out,,so be it. ....

but I think oft-times we don't know what we don't know. so if better information becomes available it could be embraced. if everyone were happy with their first efforts there would be no need for improvement. or photo etch, bare metal foil, resin, airbrushes ad infinitum ....

and if you want to be thrashed about, join Pirate 4x4 and ask something like "how do I do this ...." or BikeForums and have the Freds pig-pile all over you for asking if Shimano ABC is compatible with a Suntour XYZ.

makes this joint seem like pre-school.

Edited November 8, 2014 by southpier

[Ace-Garageguy]

I don't know how it is over there these days, but on the HAMB, they used to drill you a new one if you were obviously a newb /dweeb/ idiot. Kinda stupidly arrogant and cliquish, insecure mob macho, and I'm sure more than a few guys left to go crying to mommy. This place is all pink ponies and mermaids by comparison.

[bobthehobbyguy]

Offering criticism when not asked for will drive potential members/posters away,,,mark my word.

I follow this board because I like to build model cars. Not because I care what one person thinks about anyone elses work,,, good or bad .

I may not agree with the style or theme of every build on here but I darn well will not tell another person what they 'should' or shouldn't like .

If the builder is happy with how said model turned out,,so be it. Who am I to tell him is paint job sucks or his tires are out of scale etc etc etc

I agree 100 percent. Help those who want to be helped.

If some hang around long enough they may start asking questions and learn, and we may also learn something from them.

What we do is art and art involves ego. When attack their work you are attacking them.

However its unfortunate that there are some that refuse to listen to rational arguments when they are wrong.

Edited November 8, 2014 by bobthehobbyguy

[06daytona]

WOW - this has gone on far farther that I would have thought (although, having seen some of the posts, guess it is a pretty sore spot for A LOT of people..!!).

Maybe a little perspective is in order:

1 - it IS a HOBBY

2 - nobody will DIE/SUFFER LIFE-THREATENING DISEASES if the 57 Chevy has the wrong engine

3 - who REALLY cares about MY model? Do I REALLY care about YOUR model?

4- You build to please yourself, I build to please myself. Yes, perhaps the factory '64 Impala was never painted Purple/Green interior, but, THAT'S THE WAY I WANT MINE TO LOOK. Should you give a rat's __s? Leave it alone and move on if you don't like it. That's what I do.

Seriously, keep it real.

PS -being a very newby, I joined to pick up tips, since I am just getting back into this HOBBY. I have found some awesome builds and excellent tips, and want to keep seeing the excellent builds/how-to tips, and in-progress pics so I can incorporate them into my builds. That's why I joined. Not for the drama.

[martinfan5]

WOW - this has gone on far farther that I would have thought (although, having seen some of the posts, guess it is a pretty sore spot for A LOT of people..!!).

Maybe a little perspective is in order:

1 - it IS a HOBBY

2 - nobody will DIE/SUFFER LIFE-THREATENING DISEASES if the 57 Chevy has the wrong engine

3 - who REALLY cares about MY model? Do I REALLY care about YOUR model?

4- You build to please yourself, I build to please myself. Yes, perhaps the factory '64 Impala was never painted Purple/Green interior, but, THAT'S THE WAY I WANT MINE TO LOOK. Should you give a rat's __s? Leave it alone and move on if you don't like it. That's what I do.

Seriously, keep it real.

PS -being a very newby, I joined to pick up tips, since I am just getting back into this HOBBY. I have found some awesome builds and excellent tips, and want to keep seeing the excellent builds/how-to tips, and in-progress pics so I can incorporate them into my builds. That's why I joined. Not for the drama.

You said, its hobby, and should be about enjoyment, and at the end of day, if you are happy with your time spent on it, that is all that matter, and everything is just BS, life is to short for all the drama in a hobby.

Edited November 8, 2014 by martinfan5

[Pete J.]

It is a hobby! Well, yes and no. First thing wrong with that assertion is that everyone on this forum is an amateur. This is very wrong. There are a lot of builders on this forum who get paid for their work. Like any situation where money is involved, some produce masterpieces for high end customers. Other build for solid product for a more middle of the road customer and there are those that throw things together for a few bucks. There are also those who build to write about it for pay. All of these people are building to one degree or the other to satisfy another person. Don't assume that everyone is like you. Everyone builds for their own reasons. Those reasons may, but more than likely, will not be the same as your reasons.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Pete J.