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MCM Forum - expert work expected?


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Wow!If someone considers me one of those pro/elite/experts they haven't seen my builds.I'm flattered.I can't post on here(dial up at home,no way here at work) so unless someone comes to our local club meetings or shows they can't see my feeble efforts at building good models.

And jerk/stuck up?That's getting personal and I doubt anyone meeting me would think that of me.

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in my opinion, the best way to offer criticism is by private message and keep it polite. if you publicly "pick apart" some builder's work, they might justifiably feel a little sensitive about it. my pet peeves regarding builds are inconsistent or unfinished work; say, half the chrome trim foiled, or unpainted wheelwells, flash not dealt with properly, etc, but i don't harp on these when i see them; maybe i should mention it in a PM but i don't feel that's my duty to do so.

now, PERHAPS the reputation we as a forum have obtained isn't so much for what we post in comments, but the overall level of skill displayed in the COLLECTIVE work of the members.... there are simply OUTSTANDING builders here whose work is amazing and something to aspire to for all of us. perhaps the level of realism THESE examples have presented simply overwhelmed the lurkers passing through and they felt incapable of holding a candle to it.

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For my part, I tend to look at most things and comment when I am genuinely impressed. I see plenty of "getting started" or "This is all I'm putting into it" builds as well. I pass on commenting on them due to the feather ruffle effect it may cause. If I'm silent, I'm either not really into the subject, or it's finished look does not appeal to me. What does that mean? A hill of beans really.

I'm a middle of the road builder. I'm no Clay Kemp, but I'm not a Johnny Q Glueslinger either. And I tend to hold builds till I feel they are worthy for the eyes of this forum. I have built things with the back of my mind wondering if it is in fact good enough to show here. And that's a Good Thing.. That means I'm upping my game every time I put paint to plastic. That means my peers [those who haunt this place] opinions mean quite a bit to me personally. I've shown builds here before that were super clean OOB and got 3 attaboys and little else [search Honda RA272]. That was a clean OOB build but the subject perhaps held little interest to those at the time. I saw another build of the same kit and it went on for 3 pages. Did that bother me? Perhaps on some level we all want some kind of appreciation, so yes, in some ways it did.

Did it stop me from posting or building? yeah right.....

I put the front emblem on the GoMad Nomad on upside down!!!!!! Yes, upside down. I got one comment telling me so and that was it. No ridicule, no butt hurt. I fixed it [but didn't post the fix] and went on about my day.

Public is public. Warts and all you have to take what comes if you put it out there.

Bob

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This has popped up in two threads in the last two days that I'm involved in, and when I try to get my club members involved here, they wrinkle their nose and say things like "No, they are all elite/expert/pro/stuck up jerk builders who have ignored or bashed my work in the past". Or people seem to think that their work is not up to snuff for this forum. We've got a bad rep guys.

Don't get me wrong we have a lot of fantastic builders here, but how has this reputation gotten so bad?

I don't want to turn this into thread #1,462 on the subject of critique, but is it really that bad here?

And how can we fix it? I'd really like to hear from some of the new guys on this.

Or do we even care about the reputation?

I have heard that and other similar opinions and comments about MCM more times than I can count. Another common and repeated observation is how a lot of guys do not care for the drama or the moderation here.

Most with that sentiment agree on this point though, several years ago MCM was the place to go for a better alternative to Hobby Heaven, or pretty much any other model car forum. Many of the guys I've talked to who dislike this forum now made that decision after being MCM members years ago. And in my opinion, many of these are some of the better (dare I say best?) builders in the hobby.

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I rarely show models on the forum because my building frequency is rather slow. Maybe now with the kids moved out, I finally have space to dedicate to actual building. But I digress...On a social media site with several model pages, a person posted a rather simple but nice build of a car with flame decals. His post was it was his first attempt at using decals. There were some areas that had creases and did not snuggle the curves of the fenders. I just told him about Micro Set and Micro Sol, and to use them on the decals when he applies his next decals. He did not know about these setting solutions and was very grateful I mentioned them. It was constructive, informative and done with respect and courtesy. Every one else said nice car nice car but had no response to the original mention of decal application. It can be done without causing stress or disrespect.

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I have to say that this is a pretty even handed forum. Yea, we have a few people who don't really know when to keep their mouth shut. Having said that, I have seen people really get indignant with any comments about how something is done. It can get nasty quickly. There are as many who don't know how to take criticism as there are those who don't know how to give it. Given that state, I take a simple approach. I won't comment on the build unless there are two things involved. Number one is that I know the builder personally. They know me, I know them and we can talk as friends. Number two, the person asked for a critique. If you ask, I will do what I can to make suggestions and solutions. If you don't, unless I like what you did, crickets! Period! Frankly, I have seen too many people put up poor models and fuzzy pictures and get overwhelming praise for many. I see that as misleading people. Praising poor work is encouraging more of the same. Something I feel is a disservice to the builder. If you want to know how your work stacks up, ask. If someone asks, be constructive and be polite. That can be done.

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. Praising poor work is encouraging more of the same.

That is about what a lot of the model car groups on Facebook are like, someone post a turd with some wheels attached too it, and its going to get 20 likes , and a few "well done" comments, and whats worse, someone post a very clean, nicely built model, and gets maybe three likes, and no comments.

But the problem with a large portion of the FaceBook model groups, is they are probably mostly filled with "weekend" builders, so the bar isnt set very hight to start with.

The worst one is the Model Car group, that by far will make you want to pull your eyeballs out.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/14475736119/?fref=ts

But, MCM is not the only forum were only "well done" comments are posted, most other forums are the same way, its just seems to be the norm that you tell the builder they did a good job, even if they didnt I can think of two forums were people will give feedback to builders , but its rare that it happens.

Edited by martinfan5
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The worst one is the Model Car group, that by far will make you want to pull your eyeballs out.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/14475736119/?fref=ts

Had a look and it wasn't as bad as I expected, but like most of farcebook, I just don't get the point. Half-azzed, no depth, why bother?

Coupla nice models there though, actually.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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Had a look and it wasn't as bad as I expected, but like most of farcepuke, I just don't get the point. Half-azzed, no depth, why bother?

Coupla nice models there though, actually.

It does get really bad, there are times that decent stuff does get posted, but its not only the builds, its the questions that get posted, its just bad. Take a look at it over the course of a week.

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I see online forums the same way I see real-life car shows... I'm going to see some hack jobs, I'm going to see some less-than-stellar results, and I'm going to see a lot of stuff I'm just plain not interested in, for whatever reason. If this were "Expert Modeler Magazine's" forum, maybe my expectations would differ, but the simple fact is when you have a general automotive modeling forum of this size, you're going to get all kinds.

I've built my share of turds, for sure. I continue to do so. Every model I've built to date has four or five "what was I thinking" or "why did I do it that way" kind of things going on. But I know my standards may not be the same as yours, or vice versa. If I see something iffy going on with a model, I'll point it out, but I'll also let the modeler know what they're doing right. I think if somebody wants to get better, it's good to let them know where they're on the right track, as well as the areas they might want to focus on improving. I'm always receptive to constructive criticism, I think most people are- but on the internet you sometimes have to be careful as to how you word things so your advice doesn't sound like an outright insult... even though it still might come across as such on occasion.

On the other hand, if the guy who's just sloppily slamming stuff together is having a good time, who am I to judge his work? If the finished model looks like a train wreck, but he accomplished what he set out to to with it, and has made it pretty clear he doesn't care how it looks, I'm fine with that. Hobbies are supposed to be all about killing stress and having a good time. I, for one, have a much higher opinion of people like that than I do of "expert" modelers who somehow think they're better than everybody else because they're good at a freaking recreational activity. The way I see it, no matter how good you may be, there's somebody out there better at it than you are, and so on.

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I for one like this forum over anouther mags forum . I am not the best builder on here my self and build for my self . I build mostly big rigs and was nicely informed one on rig it should have had a butterfly hood with the pit fenders and made a note for the next one I build . But over all this is the best model forum on line have your club friendns post thier builds and see what happens . I also agree there are a few who shoot thier mouths off but I have never had a bad comment on any of my builds.

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Now, I am not a pro builder, expert, the man behind the curtain or some gypsy witch who lives in the mountains of Kansas.

When I came here in July, I thought the forum was good, some sticklers and such, but hey. You get that wherever you go. Sometimes you just have to ignore the "haters" and focus on the people who give you actual good advice.

Say I am a new builder. New to the forum, hobby, everything. I post my first model. Orange peel, glue on the windshield, crooked wheels, undercarriage barely painted.

If I get a response of:

"This model sucks. Build better before you come back"

and

"Try to be more careful with the glue and also make sure you paint everything. And don't forget the driveshaft!"

Would you say someone will be more likely to stay and try to make a better model for response A or B. Most likely B. It's easier to drive someone away than to make them stay.

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I found this forum while going through Rocketfin, don't know if it was a link or what....but I was hooked as soon as I started snooping around!!! I come on here daily and I start at the top and work my way down...now I may not check every single post, but if it peaks my interest...I will check it out. I am blown away by a lot of the stuff I read a see, there are some very talented builders spread out through every section...my hats off to all of you!! Now if I see a bit of dust in the paint, a sloppy detail job on a undercarriage or whatever...I see it, but I sure as heck not gonna throw someone under the bus because of it!! This is stuff I notice and file away for the day I build and post, nothing against anyone...everyone is at different levels of skill, and it takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there and asked to be critiqued. The only thing I have contributed here is a story of me working at a truck plant 12 years ago...does it help build better models? I don't know...maybe the pictures I posted help someone else...and if it does that is AWESOME, I am glad I could help out in a small way.

One thing I do before I hit the post button, I read through it ONE more time.....especially if I am commenting on someone's build...this way, whatever I am trying to say will not be taken the wrong way.

And this just a hobby, we are not brain surgeons or building a piano....sit back, enjoy what grabs your attention, don't like something...oh well, not the end of the world...just don't click that link!

Build on....and stay thirsty my friends!!!

Edited by dieseldog1970
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"Expert work expected?" I don't get that flavor from this place at all. More like "effort appreciated". The responses I see on here are usually helpful and supportive. I don't read every thread, so perhaps I inadvertently miss some drama, but it seems like most folks are of good will and here to share in the fun. Certainly there is some expert work posted here, all the way up to flat out amazing, but even those builders don't come off as "snobs" or "superior".

When I have posted my own models (definitely not expert), I have received "attaboys" and constructive criticism. I appreciate both. How can you learn anything if you never know when you're wrong? I like this forum, and if it's only for expert work, how come I haven't been kicked out yet? :P

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I am a modeler. Have been since the age of 6. Thanks to a Grandmother who would buy a sickly kid a model and some glue every time I had to miss school. Built at least 1 of every category there is. Cars. Big Rigs. Planes. Tanks. Helicopters. Figures...and even a ship!

I haven't posted that many builds here, but what I have has been warmly received, and I Thank You.

But that is not the reason I'm here. You see, I live on the "Moon" when It comes to knowing many other fellow modelers in my area.

No clubs. No interaction. Nuthin' But, THEY are here. I see them every time I go to Hobby Lobby. All ages.

So, what THIS place means to me is the "club" I don't have here.

I can see works of art. I can get ideas. I can gain info on the ins and outs of newer kits. I can see works of novices who are just getting into this hobby, and it thrills me that there are still younger people who show interest in creating something with their own hands instead of sitting in front of a screen playing "Blow Up the Earth Pt 7"

When I see a build, no matter how "good" it is, I see someone with a "vision". Sitting at their bench, desk, even the kitchen table...maybe a "cold one" sitting there. Coke. Relaxin'

Paint,,brushes...Xacto...and all the tools they have accumulated. Imagination. Lost in what they'er building. Thoughts. Anticipation.

Seeing in their minds what this build will turn out too be. That feeling when you do the last detail, then step back and see your "work of art".

When I look at a "work" , I see the builders who posted, no matter what their level of skill, ..losing parts. Broken parts. The paint job that went to...well, you know the word. Opening the box and realizing that the all enticing "Box Art" was SATAN when the contents were revealed.

So I'm just saying...everybody has free will.

If you don't like something...walk away. Or, hang around and maybe you will find out you really didn't "don't like something" like you thought?

After all, "you don't know what tastes like, unless you TRY it"...

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I can't think of a single elitist jerk here who bashes others' work. Some people try very hard at being unhappy or negative.

-MJS

There may not be any "elitist jerks" that bash others work, but there ARE some builders that seem not to understand the constructive criticism they may receive and may view themselves as "elite" builders that feel their "BLEEP" don't stink and then bash the very ones offering the constructive criticism. As has already been said, if you post on any public forum, you should be prepared for both praise and criticism, but in too many instantances, too much (often false) praise makes any criticism is viewed as bashing instead of constructive as it was meant. That's then when the mob then gangs up on the one actually trying to offer helpful advice, and some just seem too thin skinned to take any criticism at all. I've posted quite a few builds here over the years, and I take any and all criticism, and actually wished with some it would have been said earlier in a build, like modifications that would have produced a result I wanted but didn't come early enough to do without destroying what was already done, but even that is put in my "mental file" to use for a future project.

I used to try and offer as much help as I could, but I've had too many run ins myself with the thin skinned and "YOU'RE A HATER" mob that I've quit offering any comments and mostly check out general topics in the big rig section and rarely go farther than there.

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I guess its all about perception and how one interpret's the forum to form their own opinion/view of it through interactions they have.

All in all this is a great forum to view and participate on, but like anywhere in life there are always the same usual suspects.Just have to accept the fact that they think,act and view things different.

I could say more but its just my opinion and more than likely it would be wrong.

Edited by Cool Hand
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for a brief period I was operating under the assumption that the people who post here have what I had assumed was general "car / mechanical knowledge" and therefore should have an idea how things should go together (in general) ... I learned I was mistaken and that there are many levels of knowledge and experience (including no experience at all).

Now I tend to ask if a person meant to do something the way that they did it and let them know there may be a better (or better looking) way.

I don't recall ever typing that any posted work was substandard... I do recall telling a builder that their transmission had a split personality when a dipstick was added to a manual transmission after the builder took the time to make some kick arse manual linkage.

there will always be drama in any online forum, you either deal with it or you miss out on some great info or design/build ideas.

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