When do you stop building for yourself & start building for the hobby?

[Tom Geiger]

Wow! It must be nearing feeding time at the zoo... folks is getting a bit cranky!

There are guys in this hobby who do amazing work and are constantly pushing themselves forward into new levels of detail. We call this "the cutting edge" of the hobby. For instance take Gregg Nichols model "Backdraft". I was at the Liars show on Long Island last week and that model won Best in Show and Peoples Choice. There were people crowded around it all day. I never got near it to take photos. A model like this represents that cutting edge. Now if I saw a thread titled, "Gregg Nichols next model", I'd immediately click on it and anticipate being wowed and entertained. A reasonable expectation. But does he owe me, you, or the hobby anything? Nope. We can hope that the next model will be cooler, will reach forward past that cutting edge... but if he decides to do a box stock copy of his grandfather's car, so be it. We have no right to second guess his art.

And we need guys to constantly challenge that "cutting edge" and bump the ceiling. The hobby would stagnate without this growth. And the guys who push this edge are some of the nicest, most humble folks you'd be honored to call a friend! Are they doing it for fame? In most cases no, they are just listening to the voices in their head and they themselves are amazed that they've achieved what they have.

And there are guys at all levels whose work I enjoy. Some of us have developed styles that you immediately recognize. I love nothing more than participating in a build thread as a spectator. I love to watch the progress day to day. It energizes me and I root for the builder. There are builds that show so much promise, but fall short of my goals... note I said my goals... but we don't know what is in the head of the builder. That 'off' detail may be perfectly fine in their world. And who am I to argue? It is their model.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[bobthehobbyguy]

Well stated Tom.

Well stated Tom.

[AC Norton]

...just an opinion regarding Mr. Morrison's initial question to us all.......I feel that some pro builders obtain a certain celebrity status during their model building years, that sometimes gets elevated by the hype and glory of a big contest win, or two, or three....once a celebrated builder is known around the hobby, or if their work is posted in magazine articles, I think some builders enjoy that status, and may at that point feel that building anything that isn't a mind blowing, show stopper isn't what the crowd expects of them.....lets face it, almost everyone enjoys having their well deserved 15 minutes,,but for many that 15 minutes just isn't enough. I have always thought that every car model builder should always build and enjoy his or her hobby as they and they alone see fit. the bar has been raised so high in the last 10-15 years due to many new and terrific products we can buy, not to mention all the help and ideas and comparisons on a forum such as this, that many builders have been able to strive to heights in the hobby that most could only dream of back 25-30 years back. however, one of my favorite EAGLES lyrics says it all........they will never forget you 'till somebody new comes along.........the ace............

[J Morrison]

Wow! It must be nearing feeding time at the zoo... folks is getting a bit cranky!

There are guys in this hobby who do amazing work and are constantly pushing themselves forward into new levels of detail. We call this "the cutting edge" of the hobby. For instance take Gregg Nichols model "Backdraft". I was at the Liars show on Long Island last week and that model won Best in Show and Peoples Choice. There were people crowded around it all day. I never got near it to take photos. A model like this represents that cutting edge. Now if I saw a thread titled, "Gregg Nichols next model", I'd immediately click on it and anticipate being wowed and entertained. A reasonable expectation. But does he owe me, you, or the hobby anything? Nope. We can hope that the next model will be cooler, will reach forward past that cutting edge... but if he decides to do a box stock copy of his grandfather's car, so be it. We have no right to second guess his art.

And we need guys to constantly challenge that "cutting edge" and bump the ceiling. The hobby would stagnate without this growth. And the guys who push this edge are some of the nicest, most humble folks you'd be honored to call a friend! Are they doing it for fame? In most cases no, they are just listening to the voices in their head and they themselves are amazed that they've achieved what they have.

And there are guys at all levels whose work I enjoy. Some of us have developed styles that you immediately recognize. I love nothing more than participating in a build thread as a spectator. I love to watch the progress day to day. It energizes me and I root for the builder. There are builds that show so much promise, but fall short of my goals... note I said my goals... but we don't know what is in the head of the builder. That 'off' detail may be perfectly fine in their world. And who am I to argue? It is their model.

Yes, some good points Tom but the highlighted portion misses my question. I'm only talking about building ONE project at a time and building THAT model to the same level of detail throughout the ENTIRE build, not stopping short with the detail just before the finish of the project.

Looking at Gregg Nichol's Backdraft you can see what I mean about a model being cohesive in the detail throughout. Let's say in place of the dropped front axle he used a steel axle from an old AMT kit instead. Surely you would question that and wonder why he didn't make a front axle to match the rest of the model's detail. Does this example help get my point across (God I hope so) any better?

[Tom Geiger]

Jonathon... I get your point. There was a guy in my club who was a good builder. He'd bring in progress models to our meetings and they were excellent. Somehow it seemed he lost interest in the last 10% of his builds, and just hurried through the steps to finish. And the overall model suffered. We'd whisper to each other that he had that chance to build a wonderful model, but blew it in the last steps. Argh! But he was happy with what he did. So it was our problem not his. He died this past year, so does any of that matter at all? Not one iota.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[StevenGuthmiller]

We're missing the important point here. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? In other words, I can't believe this has gone on for nine pages. And what is point?

Scott

I kind of agree Scott. Is there anybody commenting on this thread who feels that their "fame" has hindered their enjoyment of the hobby in any way? If not, it's all a little pointless. We're all just speculating on a phantoms feelings! Steve

[slusher]

really? 10 pages for this?

someone needs to get back to building models. for himself or "their audience".

jb

I have been reading all ten pages and I am lost or clueless ..

[chunkypeanutbutter]

I went from not wanting to comment, to commenting, to puzzled.

[J Morrison]

Jonathon... I get your point. There was a guy in my club who was a good builder. He'd bring in progress models to our meetings and they were excellent. Somehow it seemed he lost interest in the last 10% of his builds, and just hurried through the steps to finish. And the overall model suffered. We'd whisper to each other that he had that chance to build a wonderful model, but blew it in the last steps. Argh! But he was happy with what he did. So it was our problem not his. He died this past year, so does any of that matter at all? Not one iota.

That is a very large part of my point Tom. Now imagine every model he did got national acclaim & was set as a measuring stick of the hobby as a goal to strive for. Would it not be upsetting that what could have been a wonderful model isn't, and worse yet gets the spotlight on it continuously.

As to the last sentence, I'm sorry for your loss. In the grand scheme of things your right it doesn't matter much, but in the grand scheme of things not much hobby related, any hobby, doesn't matter much.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I went from not wanting to comment, to commenting, to puzzled.

I've gone from commenting to no longer giving a rats behind! See ya! Steve

[J Morrison]

I went from not wanting to comment, to commenting, to puzzled.

That just validates the topic even more. On its face it may not have interested you much but as it developed you felt compelled to share your opinion on the subject and replies. Not too bad if I do say so myself.

[Alyn]

I would think that after 9 pages, most of you guys would get it.

There are modelers out there that are not building to the Morrison standard.

There are magazine editors that are not selecting content that is up to the Morrison standard.

This has got to stop.

If only Van Gogh had been alive to paint in our modern times. The night sky in "Starry Night" could have been so much more accurate with Jonathon's guidance.

Surely we can all step up our game and start building to the Morrison standard.

Surely we can all provide Jonathon with acceptable answers to his clearly and precisely worded question.

Sorry, but the arrogance of someone to think others need to change their standards to fit his is off the charts.

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Even a moderator who disagrees with the basic premise has called that kind of tripe out.

[LoneWolf15]

Awhile back , one of my models was featured in a magazine . Several days later , a member posted in a thread similar to this one about a certain Mustang , built by a certain modeler , still had the GM label left on the frame . He went further , stating that the spoiler was installed completely wrong .

He was correct ..... However , it was done on purpose on a dare / bet proposition due to an incident that had occurred at a contest several months before that we had attended . I did not sand the logo off the Nova Pro street frame that came from the AMT kit for that reason . As for the spoiler ? Off coarse I knew that it was not installed to standards , reason being , because I liked it that way !

As a builder , I owe only one person an explanation , that , would be me ..... The only exception would be a customer who contracts my services . Otherwise , it is my model , my art , my vision , and I owe no one an explanation for said reasons .

I have met more than my fair share of ax grinders , those with personal agendas , most being arm chair quarterbacks that couldn't put two engine halves together without glueing themselves to the work table . However , they are experts in the hobby , and feel free to tear down other modelers work .

Me ? I contribute to the hobby on a daily business . I did not seek out the recognition as someone suggested , rather it found me . It is my hobby , I strive to build each model better than the last one . After 52 years , I am still learning and pushing the proverbial envelope to become a better modeler .

To suggest that anyone "owes" the modeling world on each and every build is ludicrous . I build for me , if it winds your watch , great ! If it doesn't , oh well ..... The bottom line , my hobby , my build , my way !

[bobthehobbyguy]

To suggest that anyone "owes" the modeling world on each and every build is ludicrous . I build for me , if it winds your watch , great ! If it doesn't , oh well ..... The bottom line , my hobby , my build , my way !

Well said. Also if one looks at the definition of a hobby it is something done for their own pleasure. By its own definition we do it for ourselves.

[J Morrison]

Awhile back , one of my models was featured in a magazine . Several days later , a member posted in a thread similar to this one about a certain Mustang , built by a certain modeler , still had the GM label left on the frame . He went further , stating that the spoiler was installed completely wrong .

He was correct ..... However , it was done on purpose on a dare / bet proposition due to an incident that had occurred at a contest several months before that we had attended . I did not sand the logo off the Nova Pro street frame that came from the AMT kit for that reason . As for the spoiler ? Off coarse I knew that it was not installed to standards , reason being , because I liked it that way !

I'm sorry but I have to call BS on that. It sounds like excuses for sloppy work. That may not be the case but that's how it sounds, sorry.

As a builder , I owe only one person an explanation , that , would be me ..... The only exception would be a customer who contracts my services . Otherwise , it is my model , my art , my vision , and I owe no one an explanation for said reasons .

I have met more than my fair share of ax grinders , those with personal agendas , most being arm chair quarterbacks that couldn't put two engine halves together without glueing themselves to the work table . However , they are experts in the hobby , and feel free to tear down other modelers work .

Me ? I contribute to the hobby on a daily business . I did not seek out the recognition as someone suggested , rather it found me . It is my hobby , I strive to build each model better than the last one . After 52 years , I am still learning and pushing the proverbial envelope to become a better modeler .

To suggest that anyone "owes" the modeling world on each and every build is ludicrous . I build for me , if it winds your watch , great ! If it doesn't , oh well ..... The bottom line , my hobby , my build , my way !

Again, reading comprehension is lacking. I NEVER said each and every build. I said if you start detailing a model to a certain standard the WHOLE MODEL(singular) should be build to the same standard especially when that model will see national publication.

Definitely build your builds, your way. However it's not only your hobby, you share it with many people.

[J Morrison]

I would think that after 9 pages, most of you guys would get it.

There are modelers out there that are not building to the Morrison standard.

There are magazine editors that are not selecting content that is up to the Morrison standard.

This has got to stop.

If only Van Gogh had been alive to paint in our modern times. The night sky in "Starry Night" could have been so much more accurate with Jonathon's guidance.

Surely we can all step up our game and start building to the Morrison standard.

Surely we can all provide Jonathon with acceptable answers to his clearly and precisely worded question.

Sorry, but the arrogance of someone to think others need to change their standards to fit his is off the charts.

Dear Lord does no one know how to comprehend what they read anymore?! I NEVER said people had to build to a standard above themselves. I'm saying their build (singular) should have the same level of quality, their level of quality, through the whole build not just 90% of it

[J Morrison]

A lot of people are commenting here that they build for themselves. They aren't gonna change to please me. Misunderstanding what I'm saying and trying to apply it to the entire hobby. Well I'm sorry but I'm not talking about 99% of you. Unless your name is nationally known, Unless your builds are consistently featured in magazines every other issue, I'm NOT directing my question towards your builds. It's directed at a very select few who are in the upper echelon of the hobby.

[J Morrison]

It will take nine pages for the train to slow down and people to get disinterested?

I think you missed the train then, you're posting on page 10 & the thread is now on page 11. Just sayin.

[bobthehobbyguy]

A lot of people are commenting here that they build for themselves. They aren't gonna change to please me. Misunderstanding what I'm saying and trying to apply it to the entire hobby. Well I'm sorry but I'm not talking about 99% of you. Unless your name is nationally known, Unless your builds are consistently featured in magazines every other issue, I'm NOT directing my question towards your builds. It's directed at a very select few who are in the upper echelon of the hobby.

You are making the assumption that the 1 percent have any different motivation than the rest of us.

[Casey]

We've heard a wide variety of opinions and thoughts, which is good, but we've also started mentioning individuals by name, which is bad. I specifically mentioned to Jonathon in a PM that I didn't want to see any specific person singled out, and unfortunately, that has now happened, so this is a good place to stop.