Will 3d printing at home work?

[drummerdad]

I have been struggling, like many of you I am sure, with the lack of aftermarket parts, especially for larger scale kits. I know a lot of you make your own, and I am in awe of the skills displayed here on the forum. I dont have those skills.This creates a problem for me.  I try to build every model, like I would build the real thing, If I owned it. And everything needs to be modified. So, I start a project, building like I would a real project, then I hit a wall. I can make some things, and I am working on my skills, but when I hit these walls, the projects go back in the box, and I go to another project. Most never get finished. My most recent stumbling block is wheels and tires. What a mess it is trying to find wheels and tires for any scale other than 1/24-1/25. I have a 1/16 bug, and a ducati project that both need custom tires, and I cant find any. Not to mention my 1/8 iroc that is driving me crazy. I have so many plans for it, and there are not a lot of available parts. 

I need a way to make parts. I contacted a few places about 3d printing an ls1 engine in 1/8 scale. They said they couldnt do small runs.  I know you would need a 3d file, but shapeways has 3d files on a couple of tires, and I am sure I could find a file. I found one for the ls1 (with help from a member of this forum). 

Would it be practical to get a cheap 3d printer? I know nothing about 3d printers, so I dont know if the detail would be sufficient for 1/16, 1/12 and 1/8. I am planning on taking some classes on cad, but life gets in the way a lot. I would be willing to spend maybe around $500 for a good 3d printer, if it would allow me to print some tires, and wheels, and maybe that 1/8 ls1 I have been drooling over for the iroc. 

[mademan]

resolution on a $500 unit wont be very good. Ive see some of the MakerBot machines working and its grainey and requires too much work to make a presentable piece.

[my66s55]

The absolute first question you need to ask yourself is: where are you going to get the files needed to print what you want? 3d printing isn't like buying an ink jet or laser printer. You can't just plug it in and push a button and get what you want. It is a complete learning process. I second the above post as to the quality of a cheap 3d printer.

 

[Tom Geiger]

agreed.  A friend of mine has a 3D printer, but he's also a 3D CAD designer using Pro Engineer daily for years.   Getting a 3D printer is like buying a lathe. It's a whole new profession to learn before you get good result.  And my buddy has something like $3000 tied up in his setup.  

 

[oldcarfan]

My contention is that eventually these printers will become as common as regular printers if consumers can see a use for them. You'll probably be able to go to Mega-Lo-Mart and get one for $50. It's the cartridge refills where they'll get you!

[1930fordpickup]

Dwayne have you looked at RC wheels and tires? 

You are absolutely correct about the lack of aftermarket parts for the larger scales.

Go ahead and learn the CAD program, just wait on buying the printer because you can have it printed by a company like Shapways (if that is spelled it right).  

Edited July 3, 2016 by 1930fordpickup

[Ace-Garageguy]

No need to hit walls. Learn to go around or over them.

A good place to begin learning 3D modeling is to download a FREE copy of Google's SketchUp.     http://www.sketchup.com/

Much of what you'll learn here will work in other CAD programs, and there are interfaces to take files produced in SU and translate them into STL that  3D printers need.

Once you have decent STL files of the parts you want, Shapeways will happily print them out.   http://www.shapeways.com/

It's ALL possible with some applied intelligence and effort.

A member of my club created the files to print this car body, and Shapeways did the print several years ago. It's 1/24 scale. Cost to print it was about $30.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Mark]

Linking up with a company that has a professional-quality printer would be the way to go.  Do the designing yourself, then use their equipment to create the part.  The "home use" equipment will no doubt get better and cheaper, but then again so will the professional-quality stuff.  The company doing the printing can afford to upgrade their equipment more frequently than you can.

When technology is relatively expensive, don't buy it.  Rent it or lease it.  Anyone who runs an office knows this.

[drummerdad]

Thanks everyone for the input. I can get CAD files online for some things ( at places like 3dcadbrowser.com.), but not everything Im looking for . I guess Ill just have to find someone who can print them. I inquired with TDR about printing an engine, but they are very busy. I guess I need to go directly to Shapeways, or another 3d printer. I think TDR also has wheel and tire files. 

To be honest, I have been in a situation several times where it would have been good for me to know CAD design, but Im old, and stubborn, and I put it off. I tried to learn once with a friend when I was applying for a patent, but he was very good, and got over my head very quickly. I used googles sketchup, and adobes 3d software for awhile, but never got good. Any more I am learning to hate technology. Im fascinated with the things that can be done, but I feel dumb trying to learn how to use them. I guess I need to get over it, or find another hobby. 

[my66s55]

Also go to https://grabcad.com/library to find files. Just remember, not all 3d files are 3d printable.

[bbowser]

I've read recently that "consumer model" 3d printers have not sold to manufacturers expectations as folks do not see a compelling need to print things at home.  Manufacturers are focusing more on industrial / commercial models since that seems to be where the sales are.  I see where enterprising folks (think resin casters) will purchase the more expensive, better resolution models and make a business of printing parts for customers ala Shapeways.

[peteski]

I don't think that the small producers of cast resin parts or kits need to buy a 3D printer. There are several companies which offer high-end 3D printing services. As long as they are provided with the appropriate 3D drawing, the can print the item which then can be used as a master for resin or metal casting.

There are several kit producers which do this already. I have a recent Tameo kit of a 1:43 F1 car and many of the white metal castings have very faint striations on them (indicating that the master was 3D printed on a high resolution printer).  Showcase Miniatures vehicle models also have metal-cast parts which under magnification show some faint artifacts of 3D printed master.

[Tom Geiger]

I don't think that the small producers of cast resin parts or kits need to buy a 3D printer. There are several companies which offer high-end 3D printing services. As long as they are provided with the appropriate 3D drawing, the can print the item which then can be used as a master for resin or metal casting.

Bingo! The thing that keeps 3D printed parts from being offered in our market is the long time it takes for the unit to produce each and every part. One small part can run over night.  You wouldn't be able to keep up unless you ran multiple machines, and even then the machine time alone would cost more than most of our herd would pay for the part. 

[Howard Cohen]

What I find interesting about this conversation is how it relates to resin casting and photo-etching about 25 years ago. Back then I recall many people saying they would be able to make any part at home with little trouble and little cost. Well, how did that work out? Do 1% of modellers make their own parts by casting them in resin or home-made photo-etch? Even 1/10th of 1%? No, most people rely on someone else to do the work for them. I have a feeling that 3D printing will be the same. Lots of people think they can do it at home themselves until they get started. Then they realize that it is not as easy as they thought. The money to buy the equipment may be the easy part, especially if you are in a club or have a group of friends to share the costs. What stops people is the extra knowledge they need that they didn't know they needed  From CAD drawings to whatever else there is. I tried resin casting some parts and to make one or two was not as easy as it looks when you see the parts for sale at a show  After many tries and lots of wasted resin, I stopped. I did manage to make the few pieces I needed but the time and cost involved was more than it should have been and took the enjoyment out of the process. I think the same will happen to a lot of people who try 3D printing. It looks easy, there are lots of online tutorials about how to do it, many people are trying it but in the long run, how many will keep at it? Before you start, make sure you know what you are getting into. It's not as easy as it looks.  

[my66s55]

Although the above 4 posts are correct mostly of todays status of 3d printing at home, as someone who is actually involved in  achieving this activity, I view the future differently. The most difficult stage of achieving in home 3d printing at home is the file to print. Learning to use the printer is not real difficult. I see either a large data base of printable files, or many individual sites that will give you an option of a resin copy or a 3d printable file of the part needed. The technology is here and changing for the better. The following gives you a good idea how the dlp printer works. Keep in mind that there are 3 basic styles of this printer. This one has a tilting vat which allows it to build larger parts on the x,y axis, ie, side to side and front to back. The flex vat style does not tilt and is used for printing small parts. The third version is the top down that I have been using. The dlp projector is on the top instead of the bottom.

The next references inform you as to progress that show you what has evolved to speed up the print time.

 

 

[bbowser]

Doug, you are on the bleeding edge of this new technology and i look forward to seeing your comments on these topics.  Keep it coming!

[Mark]

What I find interesting about this conversation is how it relates to resin casting and photo-etching about 25 years ago. Back then I recall many people saying they would be able to make any part at home with little trouble and little cost. Well, how did that work out? Do 1% of modellers make their own parts by casting them in resin or home-made photo-etch? Even 1/10th of 1%? No, most people rely on someone else to do the work for them. I have a feeling that 3D printing will be the same. Lots of people think they can do it at home themselves until they get started. Then they realize that it is not as easy as they thought. The money to buy the equipment may be the easy part, especially if you are in a club or have a group of friends to share the costs. What stops people is the extra knowledge they need that they didn't know they needed  From CAD drawings to whatever else there is. I tried resin casting some parts and to make one or two was not as easy as it looks when you see the parts for sale at a show  After many tries and lots of wasted resin, I stopped. I did manage to make the few pieces I needed but the time and cost involved was more than it should have been and took the enjoyment out of the process. I think the same will happen to a lot of people who try 3D printing. It looks easy, there are lots of online tutorials about how to do it, many people are trying it but in the long run, how many will keep at it? Before you start, make sure you know what you are getting into. It's not as easy as it looks.  

There's definitely a learning curve with resin casting.  I started messing with it in the early Eighties, long before there was much of anything available in the way of car parts offered.  I looked to the railroad and sci-fi/fantasy modelers and their magazine articles for ideas on getting started and where to get supplies.  I tried several mold materials, several different types of casting resin, spent a lot of time, and saw a lot of junk parts before getting results.  I later sold thousands of parts, but still haven't gotten the hang of casting certain things.

Same goes for photoetch parts: did artwork for a couple of those, and spent a couple hundred dollars on each project before seeing the first parts.  Those were done without the use of a computer or an artwork program (at least by me); it could be done easier/better/more cheaply/without outside help now.  You've got to stick with it, it takes time before you start seeing results.  Even if you ultimately decide not to continue, the effort wasn't wasted; you've still got an appreciation of the effort that goes into making something.  If I learned something in the process, I don't consider the time to be wasted even if I never use the information again. 

[unclescott58]

I just got done watching all three videos above. To be honest, I understood very little of what I was seeing. It looks exciting. But, how can I truly use it in my hobby of model car building? Or how can a manufacture use use it in providing me parts in this hobby now? And for home use?

We have one member in our local model car club who is having custom made parts being made by a 3-D printer for a large scale model car he is building. The last few months he has been bringing in some impressive stuff to show us. I've been blown away by what I've seen. But, is this practical from the adverage model builder right now? Or the adverage consumer in general? He has to have someone make the parts for him. He is presently unable to do it himself at home.

We're looking at the future. I can see where it will be practical for fairly large manufactures to use something like we were shown in the above videos, in the near future. But, I can not see a way, yet, of making it practical for home use, for the type of things I would like to make. I hope I'm wrong. It would be cool to cast entire kits or parts at home.

One last thing. I'm curious about what the guy in the last video said about doing 3-D printing in metal in the near future. Plastic is one thing. Other materials is another interesting step forward. Printing things on a molecular level, arranging atoms, could really change things. I wonder how far away that is? And how that will change the world? Again, pretty exciting.

[peteski]

 

One last thing. I'm curious about what the guy in the last video said about doing 3-D printing in metal in the near future. Plastic is one thing. Other materials is another interesting step forward. Printing things on a molecular level, arranging atoms, could really change things. I wonder how far away that is? And how that will change the world? Again, pretty exciting.

Shapweays can print your designs in several different metals. That technology is already within hobbyist's reach. http://www.shapeways.com/materials/

[unclescott58]

Shapweays can print your designs in several different metals. That technology is already within hobbyist's reach. http://www.shapeways.com/materials/

Is it affordable? I can not tell from their home page on the link you gave us?

[peteski]

Is it affordable? I can not tell from their home page on the link you gave us?

If you click on each material featured on hat page, it will give you detailed information (including cost and the printing process) about each material.  But metals are printed at much lower resolution than the resins, so their usefulness for small scale models is limited.

[astroracer]

It seems most of you are starting to understand the issues with 3D Printing.

The 1st (and most important one) is where too get the 3D model that you want to print. If you can't model the parts in 3D, you will have nothing to print. That is what most everyone forgets to think about. It's just like resin casting an obscure car part or kit. You can't cast it in resin if you don't have a master to make a mold from. if you don't have GOOD 3D model to make the STL file from, you aren't going to print it.

The 2nd issue is printing QUALITY. You are not going to get a good quality printed part from a "makerbot" or cheap desktop printer. The resolution just isn't there. Sure you will get a "part" but it will look like a 23 layer cake. Just not usable without a ton of work to get it presentable. Most of the time it is quicker and easier to just scratch build the part.

I do 3D CAD for a living and have the same system at home. Building the models is nearly second nature for me, I can do some intricate stuff pretty quickly. I also use Shapeways to print my parts. None better out there and cost is very fair. Especially when you  take into account the money I haven't wasted on cheap desktop stuff.

What this boils down to is... You HAVE to be able to model the parts you want to print. If you can't do that, and do it accurately and quickly, there is no reason to even consider a desktop printer. And saying that, when you do have a good 3D part, your money is better spent having a high resolution printer service do the work for you...

Mark Smakal

[my66s55]

O.K. Let's put this back as a response to the op's original question:  "Will 3d printing work at home." The correct response is yes, with stipulations.

 Those being the following: The source of the 3d printable file. This can be achieved one of three ways. 1: Find the file on the on line. 2: You contract or have someone you know create it for you. 3: You learn cad drawing and create it yourself. Believe me, it's far from rocket science. You sure don't have to be a pro to learn and use it.

You need the right printer. The ones in the video's above that I posted will give you as good a print as Shapeways and I have it on good source, sometimes better. The problem currently is this style printer will range in price from $2000 To $3000. The one in the first video would have cost around $3000 a year ago. Currently, it retails for $2300 plus shipping. They will continue to come down as time progresses. Once you procure the printer, you need to learn how to best use it. Again, this is not rocket science. There is plenty of help available, even on this forum.

This style printer, unlike the fdm filament cheap printers, is for real. Jeweler's  use it, dentist's use it, gamers use it, etc. The list goes on.

Take heart. This desktop technology is here right now. It's only a matter of time when it becomes affordable for the interested model builder. If interested, do what is needed to to learn to utilize this technology.

Edited July 8, 2016 by my66s55