Has anybody had any paint crazing problems on Moebius kits?

[Greg Pugh]

I'm currently working on Moebius' 1965 Plymouth Satellite. Everything was going well and then...

Friday evening I washed the body in warm soapy water, rinsed it, wet sanded it, rinsed it again, and left it to dry overnight. Saturday morning I shot it in primer and...it crazed. 

And check out this weirdness. Never seen this before, nor was this line here prior to painting...

It's kinda got me scratching my head. I've used the same primer (Duplicolor 1699 Primer/Sealer) for the last 15+ years and have NEVER had a problem! In fact, I even have used it on this same kit on everything that's been painted up until now with no problems! 

So I broke out the body on the kit that I've been raiding parts from. I masked off half of the deck lid and shot it with the same can of primer, same result. I then masked off the other side of the deck lid and grabbed a brand new can of the same primer, same result. I then masked off half of the roof, and shot it with the color I'm going with (Duplicolor spray can) and it did not seem to have the same effect, not quite as bad anyways. I saw a post on Facebook where somebody had just finished building one of the Moebius Ford pickups and I asked him if he had any problems with primer crazing and he said that he did. So it's seeming to me like there's something up with the plastic in the bodies...? I guess I don't quite understand why everything else I've painted in this same kit didn't seem to have any reaction but the body did. And is this an issue with all of Moebius' kits? It's funny because I haven't heard anything about anybody having any issues until now and this is my first Moebius kit. Any ideas? 

I've stripped the primer off the body but of course now I have a lot of clean-up to do. I'm going to try a Tamiya primer on it next. Of course I'll try it on the test body first. I just hope that the Duplicolor Acrylic Lacquer will get along with the Tamiya primer. I've been told it will. If anybody has any ideas, I'm all ears!

[MrObsessive]

Wow Greg, that's bad!

I've come not to trust newer plastic these days, especially anything molded since '05 or so. The plastics have changed------they seem "softer" to me, not as durable as they were in the old days.

I'm a BIG believer in using this..................

Yeah, it's more work to put it on, but I've had ZERO troubles with crazing since I started using this years ago. Especially with the kind of work I do, I don't like surprises near the end when it comes to paint and bodywork. I use an older airbrush (Badger Crescendo) and if it needs to be thinned, you can just use plain 'ole alcohol.

Hope this helps!

[Greg Pugh]

So you thin it with alcohol and shoot it through your airbrush?

[MrObsessive]

So you thin it with alcohol and shoot it through your airbrush?

Yup! This was undercoated with the BIN, then primer put on.......

And then color coats put on. The paint came from my local paint jobber that matched the Viper Red I wanted for this.

If you remember my '59 Impala build, I did the same thing with that. LOTS of bodywork was done, and I didn't want to deal with any possible paint crazing.

[Exotics_Builder]

No problems here at all:

After body prep and cleaning applied the following:  Tamiya Light Gray Primer, Tamiya White Primer, Scale Finishes Base Color Coat and Testors Lacquer Clear.

 

[highway]

The trailers for both of these builds are Moebius' 53 foot Great Dane trailers and I didn't have any issues with them. 

The only issues I have had with any of the four trailers I have opened was on one roof I originally painted with DupliColor "Chrome" paint, but I think it was more a paint issue that the plastic itself. The "Chrome" came out fine with no issues, but I wanted to change it since the "Chrome" isn't very durable to handling when the trailer was in initial mock up stage and it can't be clear coated to protect the shine, it will turn a silver/grey with no shine. I sprayed grey primer over the "Chrome" and the primer started crazing and cracking. and then tried to repair the damage with Bondo Spot and Glazing putty which also crazed and cracked in the same places I was trying to repair, all the way down to the "Chrome"

Like I stated, I think that was more because of the DupliColor "Chrome" and painting over it rather than the kit's plastic itself. The roof of the painted trailer in this pic is the one I tried to repaint and the paint was fine before I sprayed the primer on it so I could use Alclad instead. 

 

[cobraman]

Been building models for over 50 years and I have never seen anything like that before.

[slusher]

Greg have you thought about contacting Moebius?

[peteski]

Greg have you thought about contacting Moebius?

I have a feeling that their reply will be to "use plastic-compatible paints".  Honestly, we are playing Russian roulette every time we use hot automotive or general-purpose spray paints.

[Richard Bartrop]

I sprayed Humbrol enamel on a Moebius Chrysler 300 body with no primer, and didn't experience any crazing.

[peteski]

I sprayed Humbrol enamel on a Moebius Chrysler 300 body with no primer, and didn't experience any crazing.

Well yeah, that is a plastic-compatible paint specifically made for plastic (styrene) models.

[aurfalien]

Wow Greg, that's crazy crazing!

Sorry to see that happened to you.

Has happened to me many a time!

This post may help;

Edited October 11, 2016 by aurfalien

[aurfalien]

Yup! This was undercoated with the BIN, then primer put on.......

And then color coats put on. The paint came from my local paint jobber that matched the Viper Red I wanted for this.

If you remember my '59 Impala build, I did the same thing with that. LOTS of bodywork was done, and I didn't want to deal with any possible paint crazing.

Bill, the funny thing about your initial post of this in response to the other Wizard named Bill is that my wife bought this stuff as a sealer/rust stopper on our first floor patio as the contractor drove long nails on the second floor patio which showed up down stairs.

I was like "Hey, some gnarly wizard dudes form the MCM forum swear by this stuff".

 

[Fat Brian]

That crazing happens every time I use Duplicolor paint on any brand of kit ever, I have totally given up trying to use it because it happens literally every time. The first few times I just got out the rubbing compound and polished it out but after the third time it got a bit old.

[highway]

That crazing happens every time I use Duplicolor paint on any brand of kit ever, I have totally given up trying to use it because it happens literally every time. The first few times I just got out the rubbing compound and polished it out but after the third time it got a bit old.

As Greg said in his opening post, I have also used DupliColor paints almost exclusively (with a few exceptions like my custom Ford that wears Rustoleum Colorshift on both the truck and the trailer) for many years and haven't any issues other than the one I posted earlier of crazing painting over the DulpiColor "Chrome". The paint on the other custom rig in my pics is all DupliColor Perfect Match Acrylic Lacquer, GM Bright Red and GM Bright White, and some of the red on the underside of the trailer and on the reefer unit was sprayed directly on the bare plastic with no primer. 

[slusher]

I have a feeling that their reply will be to "use plastic-compatible paints".  Honestly, we are playing Russian roulette every time we use hot automotive or general-purpose spray paints.

You have a good point and are right really. I quiet using the stuff and only used Duplicolor a few times with Tamiya primer. I have never used Duplicolor primer. Tamiya and Walmart are the only primers I use.

[martinfan5]

It seems like older kits can withstand the use of hotter paints/primers, but new kits can not,  I play it safe and use plastic friendly primers.

[charlie8575]

I've stopped using Dupli-Color primers; as I simply found them to not work.

For a long time, I've used Plasti-Kote, which, while still lacquer, seems to be a bit cooler and not as prone to causing issues.

Charlie Larkin

[Greg Pugh]

Using the extra test body that I had, I sprayed Tamiya primer on it and was then able to spray the Duplicolor over the top of it with no issues. Not sure if the problem is a newer type of plastic or that Duplicolor's formula has changed (gotten hotter) but I think I'll be switching over to Tamiya for primer. Thank you all for your help!

[gtx6970]

I use the cheap primer brand,,,, and have had no issues on any kit builds new or antique .I'll have to ck the brand

[ChrisBcritter]

That one area with the "line" - could that be due to the way the injected plastic went into the mold (same way those molded-in-metallic kits have swirls and patchy areas)? I have a '64 Galaxie on which I painted the roof with a semi-gloss lacquer so it would craze to give it a vinyl roof effect. It worked great but there were some subtle differences in some areas - though not as pronounced as what you had happen.

[Jhedir6]

Yup! This was undercoated with the BIN, then primer put on.......

And then color coats put on. The paint came from my local paint jobber that matched the Viper Red I wanted for this.

If you remember my '59 Impala build, I did the same thing with that. LOTS of bodywork was done, and I didn't want to deal with any possible paint crazing.

I had some weird paint reactions on that Airfix P1 Im working on so I picked some of this up at Canadian Tire to give it a go. How much are you thinning it, and with what % alcohol?.

Thanks

David

[bobthehobbyguy]

There is a more general discussion about this in the modeling questions in the general modeling section. It also has appeared with some of the revell kits. Has anybody tried the duplicolor over some older plastics to see if it has done the same thing?

[Mark]

The last older plastic I shot Duplicolor on (MPC '71 Chevy pickup/wedge hauler) went without incident.  I gave it a coat of "sandable" primer over reworked areas (there were a lot of them; parting lines and misalignment between sections of the cab tooling even then).  After that came a quick blast of "sealer primer", then the finish color which was Testors automotive spray.

With the 1:1 automotive touchup spray cans (both primer and color) IMO one thing that is a must, is to make sure the can is thoroughly shaken.  Just a hunch, but I think they're putting in more solvent and less solids than in the past.  What used to be labeled just "primer" now seems about the same as "sandable primer", and what used to be called "sandable primer" seems more like what they now call "filler primer".  If the can isn't shaken, that will throw the combination off even more, leaving you spraying mostly solvent.  I give the can a really thorough shaking a day or two before I plan on using it, then give it the normal shake prior to using it.  That is, shake it until you can roll the agitator around the bottom of the can.  

[MrObsessive]

I had some weird paint reactions on that Airfix P1 Im working on so I picked some of this up at Canadian Tire to give it a go. How much are you thinning it, and with what % alcohol?.

Thanks

David

David, I don't have a specific ratio that I use if I need to thin the BIN. I like to refer to what I call the "sheeting" action in the jar. Like the consistency of milk, when you swill the jar--------when what's inside the jar settles in a smooth "sheet" that's translucent, then it's OK to airbrush in my experience.

As far as alcohol, just plain 'ole Isopropyl alcohol has worked for me. Either 70 or 90%.

Mark, you make a good point about the paint consistency these days. Like everything else, manufacturers (doesn't matter the product) or trying to stay ahead of the game as far as their costs are concerned. So it very well could be that they're substituting more solvents instead of solids. 

All the more reason particularly with the kind of work I do on models, to barrier the plastic as much as possible. I've come to distrust the plastics in kits today, as well as the paint coming from the manufacturers------especially using the 1:1 automotive stuff.