Home photo etching

[GaryR]

I recall back in the 90's this was kind of a thing, or was it?
Has anybody done it? how was it?
I remember Radio Shack had inexpensive kits to etch circuit boards, can these be used to make grilles etc?

Is this practical?
Here I go again!

[Ace-Garageguy]

No shortage of info and how-tos on the web.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJsBZWqrN-g

[GaryR]

Thanks, but I have seen them. I'm looking for real world feedback on how it worked for users, not a "how to" really.

I want to know how practical it is really from car guys that have actually done it.

Thanks though.

[Tom Geiger]

Gary, it's not an easy thing for the home operator.  

First it involves you learning a CAD program well enough to create the item, say a grille, and create a photo negative at the actual size you need. If it has detail you wish to see, like a brake pedal with a pattern on it, that's two masters and a double burn at the photo etch.

Then you need to have the kit, which contains caustic chemicals.  It's not worth doing all of that if you need an item or two.  Note that professional companies like Model Car Garage, do the artwork and forward it to a professional company for the production process.

Today, still needing the CAD skills, people are doing this in 3D printing. This produces much more usable results.

[GaryR]

Thanks Tom!
This is what I'm looking for, REAL WORLD advice.

Guess I'll just have to use the awful 63 nova and Falcon AMT grilles!

[MrObsessive]

Interesting topic! I for one will need to make something in PE for a future resto/rebuild project. I'll be in dire need of 1957-'58 Studebaker Golden Hawk scripts/emblems and there's nothing else out there that can come close. And this being such an esoteric car to do, I don't ever expect to see such a thing on the market.

I have a CAD program on my one PC so that part I can do, it's the making of the negatives and such that'll be the tricky part. I see that MicroMark sells a mini PE system, so I may spend some bucks on that to at least get my toe in the water to see how all this works.

[SfanGoch]

8 minutes ago, Tom Geiger said:

Today, still needing the CAD skills, people are doing this in 3D printing. This produces much more usable results.

You can't 3D print scripts, hinges, straps, etc.

To obtain acceptable results, one doesn't need CAD or other involved applications. It can be done with minimal equipment.

[Tom Geiger]

1 minute ago, SfanGoch said:

You can't 3D print scripts, hinges, straps, etc.

To obtain acceptable results, one doesn't need CAD or other involved applications. It can be done with minimal equipment.

Funny thing... someone just sent me 3D printed scripts!   I also like scripts that are done on decals, Alps printer using the silver option.

Tell us your method for home photo etching..

[GaryR]

Interesting! I'd love to hear more about this!

I guess my grilles would be pretty simple 9 in detail ) really just horizontal bars that would fit between the plastic headlight buckets. These are for 60's funny cars, I want a gutted see through look.

HMMMMMM!

Edited August 17, 2019 by GaryR

[Greg Wann]

https://decalprofx.com/

This kit can do PE in light brass.  With this kit you can create all kinds of decals.  You can apply the image to clear decal paper and seal it and then use like a regular waterslide decal.  A very versatile kit.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Greg Wann

[SfanGoch]

1 hour ago, Tom Geiger said:

Tell us your method for home photo etching..

When I made PE parts for armor models years ago, I drew the pattern on a sheet of .005" brass sheet with a Sharpie, adjusting the image with picks and scrapers until I was satisfied. I then immersed the sheet into a plastic container filled with ferric chloride; although, you can also use muriatic acid ("pool" acid, available at hardware stores), and let the ferric chloride eat the uncoated brass, leaving the Sharpie covered areas intact. It takes about 15-20 minutes for the etching process to completely dissolve the surrounding brass. This was pre- PC, internet. It was primitive; but it worked for me. It's similar to the old method for etching PCB's.

[ChrisBcritter]

3 hours ago, GaryR said:

Thanks Tom!
This is what I'm looking for, REAL WORLD advice.

Guess I'll just have to use the awful 63 nova and Falcon AMT grilles!

The '63 Nova's not so bad - the depressions between the bars are deep enough that I was able to grind them out from behind. The Falcon - well, yeah.

[GaryR]

My Dremel works too fast for grilles, what did you use?

I have a later Ranchero  (65?) grille that's a little better.

[Tom Geiger]

8 hours ago, GaryR said:

My Dremel works too fast for grilles, what did you use?

I have a later Ranchero  (65?) grille that's a little better.

There's two ways to do this...

1.  Dremel sells a device that works like a light dimmer to reduce the power to the tool.  You can slow it down.

2.  Elbow grease!   I sanded out grilles like the AMT '55 Chevy pickup by hand with low grit sand paper.

[Ace-Garageguy]

15 hours ago, MrObsessive said:

... I see that MicroMark sells a mini PE system, so I may spend some bucks on that to at least get my toe in the water to see how all this works.

The video I posted a link to details specifically how the MicroMark system works in the "real world".    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJsBZWqrN-g

Though you are certainly capable of using it, it's not a process for the ham-handed, or those who don't or can't read instructions or get in a hurry.

As Sfan mentioned, the masks can be hand-drawn. They can be done oversize if necessary, and reduced in a quality scanner-printer, which will tend to sharpen detail.

CAD is 100% unnecessary, and the video also suggests common illustration software.

People have been making this stuff since the '50s, probably earlier.

[OldNYJim]

I wonder if paint would make a good resist for this process?  Someone with a vinyl / scrapbook cutter could make masks and just spray through them - simplifying the process somewhat compared to the process of printing, using a UV light etc etc

Joe - when you mentioned using a Sharpie, would you use it on both sides of the material or just one?

[SfanGoch]

I used the sharpie on one side only, Jim. I wasn't going to go nuts trying to make sure that the drawings on both sides of the brass were perfectly registered. It wasn't pro-quality results; but, the parts were usable.

[OldNYJim]

10 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

I used the sharpie on one side only, Jim. I wasn't going to go nuts trying to make sure that the drawings on both sides of the brass were perfectly registered. It wasn't pro-quality results; but, the parts were usable.

Interesting!  Thanks Joe!  That gives me an idea!

[ChrisBcritter]

17 hours ago, GaryR said:

My Dremel works too fast for grilles, what did you use?

I have a later Ranchero  (65?) grille that's a little better.

I have an older model Dremel with a speed control knob built in, plus a scriber tool between the bars, plus a lot of careful whittling. Lately I cut open a '65 Nova grille which was a real challenge to avoid breaking any of the bars. I keep the Dremel at its lowest speed.

[Straightliner59]

On 8/16/2019 at 10:01 PM, ChrisBcritter said:

The '63 Nova's not so bad - the depressions between the bars are deep enough that I was able to grind them out from behind. The Falcon - well, yeah.

Here's the Chevy II I did. I used the Dremel, until I got close, then finished with sandpaper, sanding boards, etc.

[GaryR]

Looks good Daniel!
I need the speed regulator though.

I'm not seeing the device on the Micro Mark site .?????

Edited August 18, 2019 by GaryR

[ChrisBcritter]

7 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:

Here's the Chevy II I did. I used the Dremel, until I got close, then finished with sandpaper, sanding boards, etc.

I see a lot to like there besides the grille! 

[SfanGoch]

30 minutes ago, GaryR said:

Looks good Daniel!
I need the speed regulator though.

I'm not seeing the device on the Micro Mark site .?????

From Harbor Freight. $17.99:

Drill Master Router Speed Control Dial

[Straightliner59]

3 hours ago, GaryR said:

Looks good Daniel!
I need the speed regulator though.

I'm not seeing the device on the Micro Mark site .?????

 

3 hours ago, ChrisBcritter said:

I see a lot to like there besides the grille! 

Thanks, Gary and Chris! Gary, I see someone posted a link to a speed control at HF. I've still got my old Dremel speed control that I've had for about 35 years, or so.

[peteski]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:12 PM, GaryR said:

I recall back in the 90's this was kind of a thing, or was it?
Has anybody done it? how was it?
I remember Radio Shack had inexpensive kits to etch circuit boards, can these be used to make grilles etc?

Is this practical?
Here I go again!

I've been etching for decades. I mainly used to etch printed circuit boards, but I have also done some model parts.

I use Ferric Chloride etchant (same stuff you used to be able to buy at Radio Shack).  For etching parts take 0.005" brass and apply photosensitive emulsion.  I design the artwork in vector format Corel Draw.  Years ago I sent the artwork to a printing bureau where they would print it on transparent black/white film using a phototypesetter.  Nowadays I print my own film on my Alps printer.  I could probably print them on a laser printer, but I don't have one handy.  Then I expose the sensitized brass sheet to UV ligth through the photomask. Next, I develop the etch resist layer, and finally put it in the etching solution.  The process is quite a bit of a pain (and I only gave you some general details of what is involved).

 

Here are some examples of things I etched:

 

Miata emblems (I tin-plated the brass and polished it).

 

Here are some weather vanes and lighting rods for N scale (1:160) barn. These are chemically blackened brass.

Door mirrors for N scale Mercedes Sprinter

 

I've done others too - just don't have photos handy.

As I said, the process I use is cumbersome.  The PulsarFX system mentioned in an earlier post looks simpler than what I do.

Then, some of my model railroad friends design their artwork and send it to a professional photo-fabrication company.  The prices are not out of reach for most modelers, they do a great job, and you don't have to deal with any nasty chemicals.   https://www.ppdltd.com/   Yes, they can ship worldwide.

Edited August 19, 2019 by peteski