1968 Oldsmobile 442 W-30

[Greg Rogers]

Excellent work on this model!! I am not a expert model builder as you and most of the guys on this site are, but I enjoy looking at what you artists can do. I never comment on the builds though I thought I had better before you complete your excellent 68 442 W 30. There were no REAR red fender wells on any Oldsmobiles. There were some on some Pontiac GTO,s I've heard though I never seen them. Olds W30's did have red front inner fenders. The article others have referenced in Hemmings is in error. If you read that article all the way thru past the ads to the replies you will see a reply from Joe Padavano who is our resident expert on ClassicOldsmobile.com. who states that the article is in error and Olds never used the red plastic liners at all. I am sure about this. I hope you research it further. You can go on ClassicOldsmobile  and see yourself.  Again I love the work on your model. I would hate to see you complete it with the rear fender wells red. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Greg Rogers

[StevenGuthmiller]

16 minutes ago, Greg Rogers said:

Excellent work on this model!! I am not a expert model builder as you and most of the guys on this site are, but I enjoy looking at what you artists can do. I never comment on the builds though I thought I had better before you complete your excellent 68 442 W 30. There were no REAR red fender wells on any Oldsmobiles. There were some on some Pontiac GTO,s I've heard though I never seen them. Olds W30's did have red front inner fenders. The article others have referenced in Hemmings is in error. If you read that article all the way thru past the ads to the replies you will see a reply from Joe Padavano who is our resident expert on ClassicOldsmobile.com. who states that the article is in error and Olds never used the red plastic liners at all. I am sure about this. I hope you research it further. You can go on ClassicOldsmobile  and see yourself.  Again I love the work on your model. I would hate to see you complete it with the rear fender wells red. 

That fact has already been brought to my attention Greg, and while I have not yet changed it back, it will be corrected before the build is finished.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Steve

[Bucky]

I stand corrected, and apologize for making the error. I read the article, but never saw any comments at the end of it. I guess I had faith that Hemmings wouldn't publish an erroneous article. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

45 minutes ago, Bucky said:

I stand corrected, and apologize for making the error. I read the article, but never saw any comments at the end of it. I guess I had faith that Hemmings wouldn't publish an erroneous article. 

I don't fault you in any way Keith.

This sort of question is all part of the research process, and we have all learned something.

It's not a difficult fix.

 

I'm having much greater problems with the hood hinges.

But I believe that I have the issue resolved now.

Unfortunately, the fix requires that I basically start all over!

 

I would consider the day wasted, but I suppose I can chalk it up as another learning experience. 

 

 

 

Steve

[Bucky]

Every day that you learn something is not a wasted day. You'll get those hinges, I just know it!

[TooOld]

Excellent start with that hinge !  Once you work it out ,  make two of them , and then figure out the mounting you'll have it made .  Go for it ! 

[Tommy124]

Great work on the hinges, Steve. They look great but (naturally, in scale) also kinda fragile. Are they really supposed to be working several times?

13 hours ago, 72 Charger said:

I am watching closely . I have always thought there should be a P.E. set of stock hood hinges

I have found something similar last year. They look great when painted and mounted correctly. But they are  not WORKING ones, so you can only display the hood open. 

http://www.davecoleysemporium.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p6920_After-Market-Bonnet-Hood-hindge-kit-keeps-the-hood-open-for-display-2-pairs-per-pack.html

 

 

[72 Charger]

4 hours ago, Tommy124 said:

Great work on the hinges, Steve. They look great but (naturally, in scale) also kinda fragile. Are they really supposed to be working several times?

I have found something similar last year. They look great when painted and mounted correctly. But they are  not WORKING ones, so you can only display the hood open. 

http://www.davecoleysemporium.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p6920_After-Market-Bonnet-Hood-hindge-kit-keeps-the-hood-open-for-display-2-pairs-per-pack.html

 

 

I cant see why they cant be made to work properly 

[StevenGuthmiller]

18 hours ago, 72 Charger said:

I am watching closely . I have always thought there should be a P.E. set of stock hood hinges

There is a set of functionng PE hinges included in the Trumpeter 1960 Bonneville kit.

 

I have no idea how they would look or function when assembled, but they do exist.

My kit unfortunately came with one of the parts missing or I might have given them a go at some point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

5 hours ago, Tommy124 said:

Great work on the hinges, Steve. They look great but (naturally, in scale) also kinda fragile. Are they really supposed to be working several times?

I'm not going to kid anyone and say that these are going to actually "hold" the hood open.

The springs, if I add them, will not be functional.

The model will still have a hood prop in all likelihood.

But the hinges should be sufficiently strong to function indefinitely and support the rear of the hood.

 

 

 

Steve

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

After some trial and error and closer examination, I discovered that I was constructing these hinges incorrectly.

I couldn't figure out why I was having issues with working out how these hinges would mount in the car until I realized that I had them constructed so that the rear arm of the hinge was folding backwards, (like a scissor jack) instead of forward with the front arm.....DUH!!

 

Now I'm much more confident that I should be able to get these hinges working as described.

Unfortunately, in order to do that, I need to start over!

 

Oh well, live and learn!

 

 

 

Steve

[SfanGoch]

17 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

My kit unfortunately came with one of the parts missing or I might have given them a go at some point.

Your method for fabricating working hood hinges is similar to what txfatboy posted on Page 8 in the "Making Door & Hood Hinges" thread:

Quote

I was wanting to make hinges for older cars look a little more realistic. I took the molded kit hinge and measured between the pivot points and cut duplicate parts from styrene stock. Then I used styrene rod to make the "rivets" by melting each side a little with a hot knife. I was going to add a spring for added detail but sadly the car was damaged by young dogs playing around.

Using PE 2 as a template, make a copy of PE 1 from .016" brass sheet. That there Dremel Micro was made for stuff like this.  If you don't have them, diamond cutting wheels are are excellent accessories to have around when you need to fabricate small metal parts. Perfect for smooth cuts and adding details like that "V" cut.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, SfanGoch said:

Your method for fabricating working hood hinges is similar to what txfatboy posted on Page 8 in the "Making Door & Hood Hinges" thread:

Using PE 2 as a template, make a copy of PE 1 from .016" brass sheet. That there Dremel Micro was made for stuff like this.  If you don't have them, diamond cutting wheels are are excellent accessories to have around when you need to fabricate small metal parts. Perfect for smooth cuts and adding details like that "V" cut.

Thanks Joe.

 

After doing a little more research, including trudging through the snow to my backyard garage to look at my 1:1 '69 Pontiac, I found that my original "scissor" configuration was correct.

Duh again!

Unfortunately, I'm beginning to think that working hinges are not possible on this particular model without some work on the cowl.

 

Unlike the example that you posted above, the hood runs all of the way to the windshield and the cowl sticks out from the windshield into the engine compartment a good 1/2 inch.

In order for the hinge mounts to be in the correct position, and not way too far forward on the hood, the rear arm of the hinge needs to fold back into the cowl area quite a distance.

This would require either such a thin rear arm as to be nonviable, or for slots to be cut into the top of the cowl to allow for the rear arm to fold back into it.

 

On my 1:1 Pontiac, there is enough of an indentation in the cowl and the hinge parts are sufficiently thin enough to allow for clearance, albeit very tight clearance!

There is just not enough clearance present on this model to accommodate these hinges without some fairly extensive modifications that I don't want to get into at this point.

 

With that, I believe it's in my best interest to abort the working hinge idea for this project.

I really hate giving up on something like this once I have committed to it, but I just don't think it's going to be worth the effort.

 

I did however learn a lot and I will definitely be looking back to this idea on future projects.

I think it would work as slick as snot on the right body configuration.

 

Sorry to disappoint folks, but I think the time has come to admit defeat and move on.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[SfanGoch]

Don't give up. You are admitting to being a mere carbon based mortal. Otherwise, I will be forced into removing your graven image from my pantheon of modeling heroes.

Seriously though, if you can send me a clear image and dimensions of the particular areas of the kit for reference, I could work on some hinges made from thin gauge brass components.

[StevenGuthmiller]

13 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

Don't give up. You are admitting to being a mere carbon based mortal. Otherwise, I will be forced into removing your graven image from my pantheon of modeling heroes.

Seriously though, if you can send me a clear image and dimensions of the particular areas of the kit for reference, I could work on some hinges made from thin gauge brass components.

Here are a couple of quick pics to illustrate the predicament.

 

As you can see, unless you were going to use a very thin wire or the like for the rear arm,(and it's questionable that there would be adequate clearance even for that) a slot would need to be cut into the cowl for the rear arm to fold down into in order for the hood to close.

 

I think these hinges would work very well for a car with a "external" cowl where the back edge of the hood is flush with the firewall, but in this case, it's not that easy.

It could have been an option back when I was prepping the body before paint to add some shallow "wells" for the hinge to fold into, but at this point, I'm not going to start hacking on the cowl again.

Way to many problems, and/or disasters, could arise from that.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[SfanGoch]

Let me work on this. I will let you know what I come up with. I think I have a solution for the rear arm.

[StevenGuthmiller]

We also need to keep in mind that any solution would still need to have the appearance of a stock hood hinge, otherwise it would be pointless.

 

 

Steve

[SfanGoch]

I don't use paperclips.

[StevenGuthmiller]

39 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

I don't use paperclips.

That might work!!

 

 

 

Steve

[Flat32]

You might consider making the hinges solid, but fully detailed, in their open position, and attach to the car via magnets. The top bracket that attaches to the hood could fit into a slot in the hood or even be hinged sideways to fold flat against the hood underside when closed.  Of course it would take some manipulation to set up the open hood for static display.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Flat32 said:

You might consider making the hinges solid, but fully detailed, in their open position, and attach to the car via magnets. The top bracket that attaches to the hood could fit into a slot in the hood or even be hinged sideways to fold flat against the hood underside when closed.  Of course it would take some manipulation to set up the open hood for static display.

Thanks Ray, but I think I have just resigned myself to the fact that this one will just have a lift off hood.

In light of the fact that the body and hood are already painted, I don't think it would be to my advantage to start doing much for body changes at this juncture.

 

I already have plans to use the operating hinges on my next project which will be a 1964 Pontiac Grand Prix.

With the different cowl configuration, I'm pretty confident the hinges will work well on that one.

 

 

 

Steve

[David G.]

Excellent attempt on the hinges!

It's a shame that they wouldn't work out... for this build. Now that you have the experience of working things through on this project, you'll be that much further ahead if you ever want to use those on a future build.

David G.

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 hours ago, David G. said:

Excellent attempt on the hinges!

It's a shame that they wouldn't work out... for this build. Now that you have the experience of working things through on this project, you'll be that much further ahead if you ever want to use those on a future build.

David G.

 

Exactly my thought David.

 

This never really was anything but an experiment anyway, so I'm not all that upset about it not working out for this project, except for the fact that it took up time that I could have spent on other aspects of the build.

Oh well.

As they say, it costs to go to school.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

Moving on.

 

Finished up the interior door panels this morning.

Door lock buttons will be added during final interior assembly.

 

Just to refresh, the door panels were cut from the MPC '69 442 interior tub.

All trim was removed and replaced with styrene strip.

Pleated upholstery was re-scribed for better definition.

Arm rests were scratch built as well as door handles.

Window cranks were cast in epoxy and chromed with Alclad.

Window crank knobs are separate pieces cut from plastic rod and painted.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Bucky]

Those are looking spiffy!