Original 1/25 AMT Cobra - A Retrospective

[vamach1]

Who’s up for building either one of these?   39PH and Williment Coupe.  Not sure if the top photo is the real one - those rear fenders look pretty wide.

Edited July 22, 2020 by vamach1

[cobraman]

Thanks for the info guys. I did not remember that Cobra and all my books are in storage.

[Ralph Henderson]

On 7/22/2020 at 7:13 AM, vamach1 said:

Who’s up for building either one of these?   39PH and Williment Coupe.  Not sure if the top photo is the real one - those rear fenders look pretty wide.

Are these all leaf spring cars??  WOW... and are the two bottom coupes the same car, (not the #3)

Edited July 24, 2020 by Ralph Henderson

[afx]

These are the same car, the top photo is as it competed at Le Mans in 1963.  It was modified several times during it's career with the bottom photo showing it's final iteration.

https://www.artebellum.com/en/classic-cars-for-sale/18654-1963-ac-cobra

Edited July 26, 2020 by afx

[afx]

This is the Willment Coupe built on a leaf-spring chassis.

https://shelbyamericancollection.org/cars/1964-willment-daytona-coupe-csx2131/

 

 

[Ralph Henderson]

4 hours ago, afx said:

This is the Willment Coupe built on a leaf-spring chassis.

https://shelbyamericancollection.org/cars/1964-willment-daytona-coupe-csx2131/

 

 

Great info, Thanks JC!!  The Willment coupe looked strange in the pic above.  I just realized it's because of the page separation..  doh..

I sure wish there was a 1/25 Daytona Coupe...

 

[Ralph Henderson]

For being a simple ladder chassis, with the leaf springs and all, and being awfully light and slightly overpowered, shots like this show how well those old cars worked..

 

[afx]

3 hours ago, Ralph Henderson said:

Great info, Thanks JC!!  The Willment coupe looked strange in the pic above.  I just realized it's because of the page separation..  doh..

I sure wish there was a 1/25 Daytona Coupe...

 

Ralph, I believe the Gunze Cobra Daytona kit is actually 1/25 scale, check out my thread and see what you think:

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by afx

[cobraman]

Pretty sure it is 1/24 scale

[cobraman]

Well, i think that's what the box claims anyway.

[vamach1]

1 hour ago, cobraman said:

Well, i think that's what the box claims anyway.

Look at the Burago diecast roadster.  Supposed to be 1/24 but there is no way.  I consider the scale on the box as not always accurate.

Edited July 27, 2020 by vamach1

[Ralph Henderson]

53 minutes ago, afx said:

Ralph, I believe the Gunze Cobra Daytona kit is actually 1/25 scale, check out my thread and see what you think:

 

 

Great info as always.  I agree with you.. Looks like I'll be looking (harder) for a Lindberg Cobra, and a Gunze.  Time for someone to make a trans kit for the AMT's...

I know the wheelbase is the same, and it would stand to reason the track width would be a bit wider on the coupes due to wider tires.  Body width would be wider also, because they weren't "adding on" flares to an existing body, so if you split the difference between the two sides, 1.5 to 2 inches per side doesn't seem like that much, whereas 3 to 4 inches total sounds like a lot.. Flatter sides make for a much more aerodynamic car, so the car would be a bit wider...  Right?? 

[Gramps46]

Here we go again.  You be the judge.

AMT-K&B-Gunze-Monogram-Lindberg

Disclaimer:  the Gunze was lengthened by me to match the wheelbase on the Monogram.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Gramps46

[cobraman]

Is this the kit you used to build the number 14 car ? 

[Gramps46]

That is the kit I used Ray.  Very simple kit as you know.  It matches CSX2287 pretty well with some new wheels and tires. 

[cobraman]

Very nice !  I never opened mine and had no idea what it was like. Looks like it ain't that bad as I thought it might be.

[Gramps46]

2 hours ago, cobraman said:

Very nice !  I never opened mine and had no idea what it was like. Looks like it ain't that bad as I thought it might be.

I am afraid I don't have a picture with the parts layout.  I did add a nose vent divider and that was about it.  Glad i could help.

[vamach1]

 I have that kit along with some HRM and photo-etch from the Gunze kit somewhere.  I think I posted the pictures before but no worries.    The Lindberg snap kit is very basic.  All the parts in the picture to the right of the body and interior are resin and diecast parts I have test fitted to see if they can improve what was intended to be a toy (red tires) and not an accurate model for anyone that cared about the history of the Cobra.  However, fining one is pretty hard these days and for what is when you find one it is way overvalued for what it is.  I probably bought this one in a Kmart or ToysRus over 30 years ago or more for $8 if that much.  I also cannot remember where the resin parts came from but I snapped them up since I figured I could use them.  The chassis on the right is the 289 Shelby collectibles diecast.

Edited July 28, 2020 by vamach1

[Gramps46]

Your Honor,

I do want to thank the plaintiff for posting the pictures of the parts layout and the aftermarket items into evidence.

In defense of the Lindberg kit I think the body shape is fairly accurate for CSX 2287 which the plaintiff and I have personally examined and photographed at the Simeone Collection.  And the shape of 2287 is definitely different from the 1:1 bodies made in Italy.  And as he indicated it is about the only game in town (AFAIK)* in this scale for the first Cobra Daytona.  If I were to do it again I might slip an IMC Cougar II chassis under it for the poseable front wheels (its a Pennsylvania thing) and add a HRM 289 resin engine or a Mad Mikes 3D printed 289.

I rest my case your Honor.

*Please note your Honor that I do not personally have a very large Cobra collection as does the Plaintiff and his expert witness cobraman.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Gramps46

[afx]

For those that may not have been so inclined to look at my Gunze Coupe thread here is a comparison of the Lindberg (red plastic) and the Gunze bodies.

[Ralph Henderson]

1 hour ago, afx said:

For those that may not have been so inclined to look at my Gunze Coupe thread here is a comparison of the Lindberg (red plastic) and the Gunze bodies.

Yep, gotta find a Gunze...

either one, actually...

again, thanks to all for all the info..

[vamach1]

On 7/29/2020 at 9:14 AM, Gramps46 said:

Your Honor,

I do want to thank the plaintiff for posting the pictures of the parts layout and the aftermarket items into evidence.

In defense of the Lindberg kit I think the body shape is fairly accurate for CSX 2287 which the plaintiff and I have personally examined and photographed at the Simeone Collection.  And the shape of 2287 is definitely different from the 1:1 bodies made in Italy.  And as he indicated it is about the only game in town (AFAIK)* in this scale for the first Cobra Daytona.  If I were to do it again I might slip an IMC Cougar II chassis under it for the poseable front wheels (its a Pennsylvania thing) and add a HRM 289 resin engine or a Mad Mikes 3D printed 289.

I rest my case your Honor.

*Please note your Honor that I do not personally have a very large Cobra collection as does the Plaintiff and his expert witness cobraman.

Nice argument and flattery will get you everywhere.  The Lindberg kit is on the build list for sure with enhancements as you suggested.

I’ll post these pics from Colin Comer’s book on the chassis number debate thread also.

[Ralph Henderson]

man, you guys are killing me. Got on a early cobra buying kick. picked up a couple nice built ups, and a couple good early parts kits, (1st issue).

And a real nice 1st issue, complete, in the box.

I never noticed how different the 1st issue wires were, or how much different the 1st issue Halibrands are from the later parts pack wheels...

I think I'm done now..

[Gramps46]

Way to go Ralph on your new old finds.

[Gramps46]

It has been fun to see this old thread pop up again and the scope expanded to include models which used the original AMT and IMC leaf sprung chassis.

1965 USRRC Revell slot body on an AMT chassis.

1965 Sebring #15 RMP (Japan) body on an AMT chassis.

1964 Targo Florio resin body on an AMT chassis.

1965 Le Mans Lindberg Daytona on an IMC Cougar chassis

1965 Fliptop resin body on an AMT chassis.