Airbrushing: Jumping in with both feet and my wallet.

[Bills72sj]

After seeing so many nice builds from others AND getting tired of "spitty" rattle cans, I am going to try my hand at airbrushing. After watching a dozen Youtube videos, I purchased a bunch of items to help me get started (hopefully, successfully). I made my own safe and mess-free decanter from a automotive Freon injector and a wide (enough) air intake band clamp. It works really well. Did I miss anything?

[Pete J.]

With all you bought, a postal scale(zero-able in grams) would be handy. They are really cheap.  Less than $20.  Why?  If you watch the customizer car shows you will see that they thin and mix catalyzed paints  using weight rather than by volume.  Much more accurate than using a graduate pipette or bottle especially for small volumes. I know most painters thin by eyeball to the "milk" consistency, but I stopped  using that years ago.  I keep a journal with the brand of paint, how I thinned it, temperature, humidity, compressor air pressure and my results.   If you do that, it won't be long until you have your own manual.  What I am trying to say is if you do each of these things the same, you will get the same results every time.  Good luck.  

[Rodent]

9 minutes ago, Pete J. said:

With all you bought, a postal scale(zero-able in grams) would be handy. They are really cheap.  Less than $20.  Why?  If you watch the customizer car shows you will see that they thin and mix catalyzed paints  using weight rather than by volume.  Much more accurate than using a graduate pipette or bottle especially for small volumes. I know most painters thin by eyeball to the "milk" consistency, but I stopped  using that years ago.  I keep a journal with the brand of paint, how I thinned it, temperature, humidity, compressor air pressure and my results.   If you do that, it won't be long until you have your own manual.  What I am trying to say is if you do each of these things the same, you will get the same results every time.  Good luck.  

Nothing to do with paint, but I have been carefully dipping my (hairy) big toe into doing some baking for the last year or so. Having a scale to weigh the dry ingredients is very important, especially the flour. Just want to agree that weight of ingredients is better than volume if you are looking for consistency. Paint or bread.

[Bills72sj]

Thanks guys, I did buy a log book but I did not imagine that weighing would be important. I am starting off with decanted then sealed paints. From what I understand they typically do not need thinned. I guess I will learn from the spray pattern.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Bills72sj
grammar

[Pete J.]

6 hours ago, Bills72sj said:

Thanks guys, I did buy a log book but I did imagine that weighing would be important. I am starting off with decanted then sealed paints. From what I understand they typically do not need thinned. I guess I will learn from the spray pattern.

The Tamiya lacquer in rattle cans can be used directly, but I still like to thin them, especially the primer.  I would rather lay on 5 or 6 very thin coats than one or two thick ones.  It allows me to control the detail loss like faint panel lines better.  It also works better with metal flake(mica) colors.  If you lay on a thick coat, the heavy flake will settle under the tinted clear and can get lost.  Several thin layers will keep it closer to the surface for a deeper metallic look.  

[Matt Bacon]

Well, I see lots of stuff. But I also see a can of Xylene, so I really hope you've got also a high quality respirator mask (like a 3M 6200) and a paint booth with substantial extraction to the outside world and spark-free fans...

That stuff on your desk can kill you quickly or slowly... please take safety equipment seriously.

best,

M.

 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

I don't want to make too many waves here, but I have a hard time understanding why people would want to spend so much money, time and effort decanting paints that cost just as much as aftermarket, ready to spray air brush paints.

Outfits like Scale Finishes, MCW, and others carry a variety of colors that companies like Testors or Tamiya couldn't match or imagine in their wildest wet dream, and all you have to do is screw on a jar, or dump it in the cup and you're in business.

I'm not trying to make trouble, I'm just genuinely curious and bewildered.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Pete J.]

8 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I don't want to make too many waves here, but I have a hard time understanding why people would want to spend so much money, time and effort decanting paints that cost just as much as aftermarket, ready to spray air brush paints.

Outfits like Scale Finishes, MCW, and others carry a variety of colors that companies like Testors or Tamiya couldn't match or imagine in their wildest wet dream, and all you have to do is screw on a jar, or dump it in the cup and you're in business.

I'm not trying to make trouble, I'm just genuinely curious and bewildered.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Pete J.

[Pete J.]

Steve, I just reread your original post and decided that my response did not match the question so I deleted what I could.  

[STYRENE-SURFER]

The only thing I have questions about is what thinners you have chosen.

If using Testors enamel and the like do test on scrap parts/sprue from same kit.

If spraying Lacquers or any soposed forms of hobby Lacquers (Tamiya, Mr Hobby etc.)

then you can get better results from there own thinners. Mr Hobby leveling thinner is 

my best experience and mixed w/Mr Primer Surfacer 1000 is a nice primer. 

There is one thing that I'm not sure of yet on this and not tested by me.

If you are priming and base coating, then masking. You need a Good adhesion so

you don't pull things up. (This has happened to me before but with spray bomb

jobs.) Going to use it on my current build but no masking required.?

[Bills72sj]

10 hours ago, Matt Bacon said:

Well, I see lots of stuff. But I also see a can of Xylene, so I really hope you've got also a high quality respirator mask (like a 3M 6200) and a paint booth with substantial extraction to the outside world and spark-free fans...

That stuff on your desk can kill you quickly or slowly... please take safety equipment seriously.

best,

M.

 

 

M., I bought the Xylene simply because it says it is for enamels. I may never use it if lacquer thinner works just as well. I do have an excellent paint booth with PLENTY of ventilation.

 

[Bills72sj]

9 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I don't want to make too many waves here, but I have a hard time understanding why people would want to spend so much money, time and effort decanting paints that cost just as much as aftermarket, ready to spray air brush paints.

Outfits like Scale Finishes, MCW, and others carry a variety of colors that companies like Testors or Tamiya couldn't match or imagine in their wildest wet dream, and all you have to do is screw on a jar, or dump it in the cup and you're in business.

I'm not trying to make trouble, I'm just genuinely curious and bewildered.

 

Steve

Steve, Thank you for your input. I will go to those other paints when the time comes. I am simply utilizing the inventory I already have, rather than throwing it out and starting over. It also gives me some paint to burn through to take me from a rookie to adequate without killing my budget.

[Bills72sj]

13 minutes ago, STYRENE-SURFER said:

The only thing I have questions about is what thinners you have chosen.

If using Testors enamel and the like do test on scrap parts/sprue from same kit.

If spraying Lacquers or any soposed forms of hobby Lacquers (Tamiya, Mr Hobby etc.)

then you can get better results from there own thinners. Mr Hobby leveling thinner is 

my best experience and mixed w/Mr Primer Surfacer 1000 is a nice primer. 

There is one thing that I'm not sure of yet on this and not tested by me.

If you are priming and base coating, then masking. You need a Good adhesion so

you don't pull things up. (This has happened to me before but with spray bomb

jobs.) Going to use it on my current build but no masking required.?

Kurt, Thank you for the input. In regards to moving onto other products such as you recommend, I will eventually go there. I still need to learn the habit of primer first because in my rattle can past, I always sprayed color directly onto styrene  which never has adhesion problems.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Bills72sj said:

Steve, Thank you for your input. I will go to those other paints when the time comes. I am simply utilizing the inventory I already have, rather than throwing it out and starting over. It also gives me some paint to burn through to take me from a rookie to adequate without killing my budget.

Makes perfect sense Bill.

I can absolutely understand wanting to use up what you have.

 

I guess my question wasn't necessarily directed only at you, but just as a general inquiry for anyone who does a lot of decanting.

I've never quite understood why someone would buy a can of spray paint just so that they could drain it out to spray it through another device when there are clearly so many much easier alternatives.

It just seems like such a messy and unnecessary undertaking considering all of the options available.

Maybe it's just me.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

[Bills72sj]

After cleaning and rewrapping my paint booth with 'Press and Seal', I finally actually used 2 of my 3 new airbrushes. I must say, airbrushing is WAY better than rattle cans. It is no wonder you guys get such awesome results. The color and thickness control is AMAZING. I am so glad I took the dive. So far I have shot 6 decanted enamels and one jar of acrylic thinned with household ammonia (probably not the best solvent). I am very pleased with the results. I hope to shoot some more parts for my Mustang tomorrow.

[STYRENE-SURFER]

Fantastic! You certainly have a good looking setup.

?

Glad to hear things are going well after being brave and jumping in...

into one of the more challenging aspects of the hobby to wrap ones head around?

[Pete J.]

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Makes perfect sense Bill.

I can absolutely understand wanting to use up what you have.

 

I guess my question wasn't necessarily directed only at you, but just as a general inquiry for anyone who does a lot of decanting.

I've never quite understood why someone would buy a can of spray paint just so that they could drain it out to spray it through another device when there are clearly so many much easier alternatives.

It just seems like such a messy and unnecessary undertaking considering all of the options available.

Maybe it's just me.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

Steve, I do it because often that is the only thing I can get at the hobby store.  The brands you mentioned are mail order only and sending lacquers through the mail can be a roll of the dice due to it's high flammability.

Just as a reference, one Tamiya rattle can fills a 500 ml jar.  That is generally enough for two cars.  I generally only get one car per rattle can without decanting.   I ordered a bunch of Tamiya "mixing" bottles which are 500ml. 

  I use a lot of Tamiya paint and am looking forward to their LP paints.  So far the local stores are not stocking them.    As to the hassle, well I have a rig much like the A/C recharging pliers Bill mentioned.  To me that is less hassle than waiting for the premixed to show up in the mail.  Yea, I am probably a bit impatient, but at least I can admit that.  Oh, and the other reason, I got a bunch of Tamiya rattle cans years ago for free, but that is another story. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

23 minutes ago, Pete J. said:

Steve, I do it because often that is the only thing I can get at the hobby store.  The brands you mentioned are mail order only and sending lacquers through the mail can be a roll of the dice due to it's high flammability.

Just as a reference, one Tamiya rattle can fills a 500 ml jar.  That is generally enough for two cars.  I generally only get one car per rattle can without decanting.   I ordered a bunch of Tamiya "mixing" bottles which are 500ml. 

  I use a lot of Tamiya paint and am looking forward to their LP paints.  So far the local stores are not stocking them.    As to the hassle, well I have a rig much like the A/C recharging pliers Bill mentioned.  To me that is less hassle than waiting for the premixed to show up in the mail.  Yea, I am probably a bit impatient, but at least I can admit that.  Oh, and the other reason, I got a bunch of Tamiya rattle cans years ago for free, but that is another story. 

All valid points I suppose.

It's just a question that starts rolling around in my head whenever I hear people talking abut decanting paint.

 

I do have to point out that you apparently have made a mistake in your quantity calculation.

500 ml is equivalent to a little over 16 fluid ounces.

I'm pretty sure that Tamiya doesn't make 16 ounce spray cans.

 

I also want to address your concern about flammability of lacquers sent in the mail.

I order from Scale Finishes, MCW and Alclad quite frequently and have yet to have a package burst into flames.

I would worry more about breakage or spillage than flammability, and I have yet to have any of those issues in many years of ordering lacquers through the mail.

The vendors of these products are all very conscientious and package their wares extremely well.

 

In my case, as I'm sure is the case with many others, Tamiya products are a mail order experience as well.

In over 30 years of living in two different cities, I have never seen a can of Tamiya paint in either a hobby shop, or any other store, with the exception of the occasional can of primer.

 

Unless I want to use Testors, (which I don't care to) ordering by mail is a must.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Pete J.]

9 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

All valid points I suppose.

It's just a question that starts rolling around in my head whenever I hear people talking abut decanting paint.

 

I do have to point out that you apparently have made a mistake in your quantity calculation.

500 ml is equivalent to a little over 16 fluid ounces.

I'm pretty sure that Tamiya doesn't make 16 ounce spray cans.

 

I also want to address your concern about flammability of lacquers sent in the mail.

I order from Scale Finishes, MCW and Alclad quite frequently and have yet to have a package burst into flames.

I would worry more about breakage or spillage than flammability, and I have yet to have any of those issues in many years of ordering lacquers through the mail.

The vendors of these products are all very conscientious and package their wares extremely well.

 

In my case, as I'm sure is the case with many others, Tamiya products are a mail order experience as well.

In over 30 years of living in two different cities, I have never seen a can of Tamiya paint in either a hobby shop, or any other store, with the exception of the occasional can of primer.

 

Unless I want to use Testors, (which I don't care to) ordering by mail is a must.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Your right, one to many zeros.  Tamiya makes 20 ml and 40 ml.  The 40 ml will hold about 50ml of decanted paint or one rattle can. ?

As to the flammability issue, the UPSP has a lot of regulations about mailing that stuff.  You can confirm this by googling "flammable liquids USPS". That is why when you walk into the Post Office to mail a package they ask about flammable liquids,  batteries and a whole bunch of other stuff.  Specifically, it is prohibited from air freight and restricted on ground transportation.   International is even more restrictive. 

Try ordering Zero Paint from Hiro Boy(Spain) and they will tell you they will ship it, but it may get confiscated going through customs sand they are not responsible for that.  Several years ago, I tried to buy a couple of gallons of automotive Lacquer thinner(outlawed in Ca. but that's another story) and you wouldn't believe the hoops I had to jump through to get it.  USPS refused it and UPS had a bunch of packaging and labeling requirements.  I actually had to send it to a friend in Arizona and he forwarded it on to me.  From that day forward, anytime I drive out of state(most often to Las Vegas) I stop by an automotive paint shop and pickup a couple of gallons of the stuff. 

  By the way I just got three packages of Gunze lacquers off of eBay and they came by the USPS but had no flammability markings or other indications on the package.  I just wonder if the shipper didn't bother to tell the post office.  I suppose that would be fine until there was a problem, then they would come looking for you. 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

32 minutes ago, Pete J. said:

Your right, one to many zeros.  Tamiya makes 20 ml and 40 ml.  The 40 ml will hold about 50ml of decanted paint or one rattle can. ?

As to the flammability issue, the UPSP has a lot of regulations about mailing that stuff.  You can confirm this by googling "flammable liquids USPS". That is why when you walk into the Post Office to mail a package they ask about flammable liquids,  batteries and a whole bunch of other stuff.  Specifically, it is prohibited from air freight and restricted on ground transportation.   International is even more restrictive. 

Try ordering Zero Paint from Hiro Boy(Spain) and they will tell you they will ship it, but it may get confiscated going through customs sand they are not responsible for that.  Several years ago, I tried to buy a couple of gallons of automotive Lacquer thinner(outlawed in Ca. but that's another story) and you wouldn't believe the hoops I had to jump through to get it.  USPS refused it and UPS had a bunch of packaging and labeling requirements.  I actually had to send it to a friend in Arizona and he forwarded it on to me.  From that day forward, anytime I drive out of state(most often to Las Vegas) I stop by an automotive paint shop and pickup a couple of gallons of the stuff. 

  By the way I just got three packages of Gunze lacquers off of eBay and they came by the USPS but had no flammability markings or other indications on the package.  I just wonder if the shipper didn't bother to tell the post office.  I suppose that would be fine until there was a problem, then they would come looking for you.

Well, that might all be valid, but in any case, if you order paint from MCW or Scale Finishes and you live in the continental US, you will receive it, whether it's flammable or not. 

I would assume that Tamiya lacquers are also flammable, (as well as under pressure) which I would guess would be even worse to ship.

Either way, the post office would be delivering my paint.

I have no options, and I'll just let the distributor and the postal service hash out the semantics.

 

I've been ordering MCW paints for decades.

Apparently, they have a system that works for all involved.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Edited August 23, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[ACR-E Doug]

I have ordered Zero Paint and the new Tamiya LP from Spot Models in Spain and have never had a problem.  The companies have changed to 30mil bottles because that is the size that makes them able to ship over seas with no problems.  Zero does not have all paints in 30mil yet but they are working on it, also I might add that MRP makes great air brush ready paints.

[gman]

I was decanting cans of spray I had around the house for airbrush use- sometimes because I already had them, and sometimes because I wanted to use them to mix up another color with them. At other times, it was because I didn't like the spray pattern right out of the can (I am talking to YOU, Testors lacquers). I was able to get some jars of Tamyia's new LP line, and am looking forward to spraying Tamiya lacquers through the airbrush and skipping the decanting step. The line of LP lacquers isn't as extensive as their TS line, and hopefully it expands in time.

The biggest suppliers of OEM formula lacquers for hobby use (Scale Finishes, MCW) aren't as easy to get here north of the border and cost more if you do, otherwise I'd probably have a big supply of them. What makes them so attractive is that the size of the metallics has been scaled down for hobby use. I was looking to get some House of Kolor paint for a project, and the smallest quantity I can get locally is a pint. For car models, a pint of unthinned lacquer is a pretty big commitment to spraying a number of kits the same darn color

[Pete J.]

11 hours ago, ACR-E Doug said:

I have ordered Zero Paint and the new Tamiya LP from Spot Models in Spain and have never had a problem.  The companies have changed to 30mil bottles because that is the size that makes them able to ship over seas with no problems.  Zero does not have all paints in 30mil yet but they are working on it, also I might add that MRP makes great air brush ready paints.

 

9 hours ago, gman said:

I was decanting cans of spray I had around the house for airbrush use- sometimes because I already had them, and sometimes because I wanted to use them to mix up another color with them. At other times, it was because I didn't like the spray pattern right out of the can (I am talking to YOU, Testors lacquers). I was able to get some jars of Tamyia's new LP line, and am looking forward to spraying Tamiya lacquers through the airbrush and skipping the decanting step. The line of LP lacquers isn't as extensive as their TS line, and hopefully it expands in time.

The biggest suppliers of OEM formula lacquers for hobby use (Scale Finishes, MCW) aren't as easy to get here north of the border and cost more if you do, otherwise I'd probably have a big supply of them. What makes them so attractive is that the size of the metallics has been scaled down for hobby use. I was looking to get some House of Kolor paint for a project, and the smallest quantity I can get locally is a pint. For car models, a pint of unthinned lacquer is a pretty big commitment to spraying a number of kits the same darn color

Maybe you two can clear up something.  I have heard that the Tamiya LP paints were intended to be thinned 2:1.  True, false or urban legend? I mean, a 10 ml bottle isn't much paint.  I think at that rate it would take two or three to do one car body.  

Edited August 24, 2020 by Pete J.

[gman]

2:1 is a starting point for thinning. As with any ratio, some of that will require adjustment based on your airbrush, the pressure you spray at etc.

^^here he thins the Tamyia LP paint 40% paint, 60% thinner and had a good amount left over after spraying 4 coats on the car body.

 

[Pete J.]

3 hours ago, gman said:

2:1 is a starting point for thinning. As with any ratio, some of that will require adjustment based on your airbrush, the pressure you spray at etc.

^^here he thins the Tamyia LP paint 40% paint, 60% thinner and had a good amount left over after spraying 4 coats on the car body.

 

Ok, thanks!  I was just able to find some to order from Canada!  It seems from Tamiya's web site that most are just not available in the US yet.   Can't wait to get them here and play with them.  Kind of seems like an 20ml Tamiya mixing jar may be a good place to  start the experiment.