afx Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 Kit provides no roll cage so I fabricated the hoop and the kickers. Might not bother with the forward half as it is very difficult to see on the 1:1. The back facing kickers pass through the rear window so I have to deal with that yet! The kit intends the glass to fit perfectly with the only gluing surface the very edge of the glass - yea right! I added a flange along the header (bonding surface and support) and material inside the A pillars to improve the fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaves pah Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Hi, afx, the way I'll do it will be inserting a small metal pin in the roll bar for each kicker and, when the car is almost done, and after the rear window glass is in it's place, I will insert the kickers through previous made holes and glue it in these pins... each kicker will have, in the outer extremity, another metal bent in a 30 degrees angle pin, already glued, that will enter some little holes in the chassis where they are supposed to be fixed... you will have to remove your kickers again... this pins solution worked very well in a a RT-10 Viper metal roll bar I made (it's shape is so difficult to obtain, I had to do it by bending 3,2mm gauge steel wire (had to heat it until turning red then to cold water to brake the temper)... I decided to take a break as making the three little ventilation holes in both acetate door windows without these annoying drilling "debris", it is so difficult to clean it... is sooo painfull!.... I lost the two horizontal kickers that go along the side windows and "close" the front and rear roll bars but in Viper 14 image you can see the holes where they fix; the hinges to the hood are so small that to scratch it is almost impossible... I may try to make small arch hinges as these I made to the Viper doors, with some 4 mm diameter loops, or just keep the hood open, hold by two small hinge-like steel wires, with that long broomstick they used to keep it up for engine maintenance as this particular "short tail" type has a much "richer" engine compartment door for us to enjoy... these redish ventilation hoses are a chalenge... Renaissence used to make some 4mm dia ones, but are now long out of production, so I will have to "improvise"... and besides in this case they would have to be thicker, about 5mm dia, I did make some dry tests but will have to make some "cheating" when they overcross the chassis and plunge to the back of the engine, as if you close the hood they are a little large and don't let it close... some monofilament electric wire bent to get the shape and then"wrapped" with thin copper wire to simulate the shape? resin copies of threaded rod heated to bend it in the correct shapes?... In "long tails" it is better to keep the hood down so we can admire the sleek and beautiful shape of this fantastic beast... I hope this will be useful for you.... and for any happy Lancia Beta Alitalia owner of corse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 22, 2021 Author Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) Thank you for the information Marco. I used metal pins (short pieces of wire) at the connections points of the bars for the roll cage. The challenge is locating the holes correctly in the rear glass. I'll figure something out. That is great looking Viper! Is that a current project or have you finished the build? Would like to see more photos. Edited February 22, 2021 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaves pah Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Well, there seem to be very different “crossing” ways as we can see in these images, probably because I suppose every car was more or less hand made by different Tuners… in Beta 14 and Engine 16, an oblong and low(ish) hole was made, reinforced by a metal ring probably to avoid Polycarbonate glass to crack and tear with extreme vibrations that certainly occur… in Lancia Beta…, they might have just cut the Polycarbonate glass corners, as the kickers seem to be located nearer to the end, although there may exist a reinforcement partial ring… in the Alitalia '79 car, it seems the kickers enter the “cockpit“ in a very upper location so the glass has only some U cuts to allow it to enter… if you can remove the kickers again, you will be able to test fit the interior base under the central body part and 3D locate the place where the oblong hole will be located… (if 3D locating is your problem…) My Viper is in a temporary “coma” state… Finding the correct wheels was a very hard battle, I made more than one attempt, and these final ones had to be sort of “machined” with a Minicraft rotating machine on one hand and the X-acto on the other… and spacer rings to locate correctly the inserts…( these are long out of production Scale Production Le Mans BBSs I found in one awaiting project box, a 1994 Le Mans EB 110 Bugatti that, luckily, will be much better with the more recent (and much perfectly crafted) Scale Production Le Mans BBSs!)… not to speak about the years spen ton finding a very rare Scale Designs decal sheet... and the roll bars (specially the front one), as I already told you, where another huge enterprise… and the very small door hinges with these non-parallel arms so they could fit in that narrow place… and the aluminium window frames and the interior door parts to hold it in place… and the famous three holes in the side windows ( I found a special new and very sharp tool to open holes in RC clear bodies), but even with that tool the holes are still not perfect to me… and THE STRUGGLE to find images of the car I want to render, one of the two 1994 RT-10 private Luigi prepared Vipers, the shocking orange one known as “L’orange” that finished 12th overall, (the other was shocking yellow and was nicknamed !Le Canari” but DNF)… I still have to build a box that cover the standard Intake Plenum, this by the photos of the yellow car, easier to find as this car has been recently refurbished as it is now for sale, assuming that both cars did have identical preparation options… and finding the correct paint Zero Paints… what a long story it is!... So I took some vacations on him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) Marco, I was able to get the kicker (braces) more into the corners on the long-tail so the plan is to notch the corner of the glass. I will go with the oval opening and reinforcing plate on the short-tail. Edited February 23, 2021 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, chaves pah said: My Viper is in a temporary “coma” state… Finding the correct wheels was a very hard battle, I made more than one attempt, and these final ones had to be sort of “machined” with a Minicraft rotating machine on one hand and the X-acto on the other… and spacer rings to locate correctly the inserts…( these are long out of production Scale Production Le Mans BBSs I found in one awaiting project box, a 1994 Le Mans EB 110 Bugatti that, luckily, will be much better with the more recent (and much perfectly crafted) Scale Production Le Mans BBSs!)… not to speak about the years spen ton finding a very rare Scale Designs decal sheet... and the roll bars (specially the front one), as I already told you, where another huge enterprise… and the very small door hinges with these non-parallel arms so they could fit in that narrow place… and the aluminium window frames and the interior door parts to hold it in place… and the famous three holes in the side windows ( I found a special new and very sharp tool to open holes in RC clear bodies), but even with that tool the holes are still not perfect to me… and THE STRUGGLE to find images of the car I want to render, one of the two 1994 RT-10 private Luigi prepared Vipers, the shocking orange one known as “L’orange” that finished 12th overall, (the other was shocking yellow and was nicknamed !Le Canari” but DNF)… I still have to build a box that cover the standard Intake Plenum, this by the photos of the yellow car, easier to find as this car has been recently refurbished as it is now for sale, assuming that both cars did have identical preparation options… and finding the correct paint Zero Paints… what a long story it is!... So I took some vacations on him! I think its time for you to wake up your Viper project Marco! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) These photos appear to show no forward half of a roll cage only a roll hoop and kickers behind the driver at this point of the car's development. This photo appears to show no roll cage at this stage. There does appear to be some reinforcement in the greenhouse structure however. Edited February 23, 2021 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 25, 2021 Author Share Posted February 25, 2021 One window notched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaves pah Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 Hi, afx, yes that is the trick, when the hole is an oblong circle it is just opening it... we will have to study each specific car, as they may all be different... I have been working on all the engine details, as I will let this Alitalia car with the hood open, so I did the "slunt" parts that connect the NACAs over the side oil coolers with the orange ducts for engine cooling (these lips on the down sides will help fixing these parts to the NACAs)... now I am trying to bend some 2.19 mm copper wire (3,74 mm outer diameter) that will be covered with heat retractable hose(?) and finally covered with 0.3 copper wire to simulate the big thing (hope it works...)... rear shock absorbers are more or less rebuilt usinf 0.5 solder wire, I will post some images when completed... I found a strange 2 to 3 mm gap between the engine cover and the rear window base, from side to side, in all Beta kits variants, that I was not able to confirm in ALL my Lancia Beta photos!... not one taken from the outside of the car with the hood closed to show that kind of grille conducting the air from that huge rear outer window NACA to the engine compartment! and it's colour might vary from car to car... if the Alitalia one is painted with the large red, white and green strip, the others... The Martini car has it matt black, the Fruit of.. has it also matt black... the Finotto/Facetti might also have it black, although I have a recent photo of this car (if it is the same chassis) without it... I have some images of an Esci White striped Red car with #19, a very good work OOB in ALPHAmodelismo.pt, where it is painted also in red... the White striped Blue car... Regarding your Wonderfull work, as usual I must say, I noticed that these triangular little panels where the rear window ends, after the kicker braces, seem to be a bit undersized, the Alitalia car has two grilled holes (?) for cockpit air to come out (?), as in the other cars, although the shape varies from one car to another... I will glue a 1mm plastic strip on each side and resize the window... I think that the notches you took from the rear window might be more as upside rectangles with a round corner when it is near the kicker braces... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaves pah Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I forgot to post two interesting diagrams that help understanding this car mechanics design, so here they are; and also some images of the Finotto/Facetti car today ( the same car/chassis?) , without that inside engine cover (could it be a climate change consequence?)... and the inner kicker braces with the oblong holes in the rear window... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) Really nice work on your NACA ducts and fittings Marco. Which car are you building, the Alitalia short-tail? Edited February 28, 2021 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) Exciting news, I contacted 3Amigos Decals about producing a set of decals for the Jolly Club 1980 Daytona 24 entry. They do custom decals and he, Sam has agreed to work with me. www.3amigosdecals.net Edited February 28, 2021 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschercr Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Exciting great news JC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaves pah Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Hi, afx, yes, at the moment I "unburied" the Alitalia car, the only car with that extra NACAs... I have other long tail Betas waiting for decals to move on", as the LM Martini, the White and Blue LM car and the CARMAff LM '81 car, for whom I did make the decals, as you can see in this image (where I made some other unobtainable decals, as the LM 1972 246 GT Dino (except BP logos, available), a 1981 IMSA "Le Car" Renault Turbo (side black outlined white patches still have to be corrected as I will have to convert to 2D it's 3D shape), and a Pedro Rodriguez '65 Sebring 330P Ferrari); this image was made in Autocad, where I added most of the logos, so it would have to be printed on a white decal sheet, but I tried once with a A4 sheet I got from somebody but, that shop printer and the guys there where not trained to print on that type of paper, and the machine almost caught on fire, so I stopped making these experiences for a while... all these cars are almost done, so decals would be the final kick on... Except the Ferrari, where proper wheels are still an unsolved problem... Academy tires are WONDERFUL for a wide lot of cars, so I will need to get a large amount of copies; but wheels are much difficult, I will need to combine HRM Ferrari Borranis (that would have to be widened) for the rear wheels, and MBW 3D printed Borranis to the front, if I get the tire copies before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) All great projects Marco, they would be of great interest on the Motorsport Modeling forum. You can see the forum here: https://race-car-models.proboards.com/ Edited March 1, 2021 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsuperdan Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I know you're already way into the build, but if you need more reference photos, the Canepa Motorsport website is one I use and refer to all the time. And they have a 1979 Lancia Beta Monte Carlo in stock! https://canepa.com/photo-gallery/1979-lancia-beta-monte-carlo-turbo5426/ 49 high res detail photos at that link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted March 3, 2021 Author Share Posted March 3, 2021 39 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said: I know you're already way into the build, but if you need more reference photos, the Canepa Motorsport website is one I use and refer to all the time. And they have a 1979 Lancia Beta Monte Carlo in stock! https://canepa.com/photo-gallery/1979-lancia-beta-monte-carlo-turbo5426/ 49 high res detail photos at that link. Appreciate the link Dan. The interior shots are particularly helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted March 5, 2021 Author Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) Sam at 3Amigos emailed me a sample of the decals to confirm sizes are okay - they look great! If the actual decal prints look this good I'll be doing more projects with 3Amigos. Edited March 5, 2021 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) Looks a mess with paper decals applied with scotch tape but gives you an idea. Edited March 6, 2021 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 The Jolly Club 1980 Daytona 24 entry did have a full cage so I fabricated the front half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBorg Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 I've got three of these in my "to get to" stack. When I do, this will be the go to set of directions. Stunning work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) Thanks Mike. I would like to find another short-tail kit but building two of these might be enough for me. Edited March 6, 2021 by afx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkychiken Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Awesome builds here!, going to have to follow along! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemszi Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 This is a great project, I follow it When I was a kid, my cousin infected me with this kit and thus with this hobby in the 90's. Unfortunately it isn't easy to get one in nowadays, but I would definitely like to build one myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 3/7/2021 at 1:46 PM, Funkychiken said: Awesome builds here!, going to have to follow along! Glad you like the builds Atin. 2 hours ago, Kemszi said: This is a great project, I follow it When I was a kid, my cousin infected me with this kit and thus with this hobby in the 90's. Unfortunately it isn't easy to get one in nowadays, but I would definitely like to build one myself Thank you Gabor. Not a very common kit, they appear on eBay from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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