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New International COE CO4070A!


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9 hours ago, DRIPTROIT 71 said:

Technically these engines , in non-turbo form are considered  naturally aspirated and not supercharged. These were 2 stroke cycle engines without intake valves and the blower was necessary for the engine to run.

Thanks for the information. Pretty interesting. 
It looks cool, which is something. 

So what year or era does this truck belong to? The original release was ‘73? 

 

7 hours ago, Classicgas said:

Haven't built a truck since high school. I'm GETTING this!!

I am in the same boat. Last one I built was an Alaskan Hauler - must have been 1982...? Middle school probably. But this thing is neat - a lot of potential for a well used, weathered truck here. 

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1970-73 I think and the Co 4070A replaces the CO 4000 and the CO4070B came 1974.

Here is an explanation how a two stroke diesel engine operates for those who don't know:

As a two-stroke diesel engine that does not use crankcase aspiration cannot naturally draw in combustion air, the blower is inherently necessary to charge the cylinders with air for combustion. The blower also assists in scavenging spent combustion gasses at the end of the power stroke. All Series 71 engines use uniflow scavenging, in which a gear-driven Roots blower mounted to the exterior of the engine provides intake air through cored passages in the engine block and ports in the cylinder walls at slightly greater than atmospheric pressure. The engine exhausts through pushrod-operated poppet valves in the cylinder head(s), with either two or four valves per cylinder. Unit fuel injection is employed, one injector per cylinder, with no high fuel pressure outside of the injector body. The injectors are cycled from the same camshaft responsible for opening the exhaust valves.

So the blower doesn't provide boost and they used turbos for that on the forced induction two stroke diesels.

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A truly amazing and historic return of a very worthwhile subject, the 4070A is a kit I never thought I’d be able to build. I’m looking forward to it.

When it comes to the 4070B, (also a kit I would like to have), I’m curious how much is shared, or could be shared, between the two kits?

Obviously, they don’t have enough in common to allow for the 4070A to return until now (after extensive effort), but...I wonder if some of the improvements and new tooling done to recreate the 4070A could be used in a future reissue of the 4070B - to also improve that kit?

Considering that the 4070B tooling exists, and knowing Round 2 would like to get as much as they can out of the new 4070A tooling, could we have an improved 4070B in our future?

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2 hours ago, vincen47 said:

Considering that the 4070B tooling exists, and knowing Round 2 would like to get as much as they can out of the new 4070A tooling, could we have an improved 4070B in our future?

Good question(s), but I have to believe the 4070A will sell well enough on its own for Round2 to recoup their investment, and sales on a straight reissue of the 4070B are a bonus. Guess we'll have to see once the new -A is out and people start kitbashing it with the -B to see how well the two play together. Not a bad problem to have of they don't, really.

All of the above is assuming Round2 can reissue the 4070B, of course, which may or may not be the case.

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4 hours ago, vincen47 said:

A truly amazing and historic return of a very worthwhile subject, the 4070A is a kit I never thought I’d be able to build. I’m looking forward to it.

When it comes to the 4070B, (also a kit I would like to have), I’m curious how much is shared, or could be shared, between the two kits?

Obviously, they don’t have enough in common to allow for the 4070A to return until now (after extensive effort), but...I wonder if some of the improvements and new tooling done to recreate the 4070A could be used in a future reissue of the 4070B - to also improve that kit?

Considering that the 4070B tooling exists, and knowing Round 2 would like to get as much as they can out of the new 4070A tooling, could we have an improved 4070B in our future?

I'm going to guess the original tooling was ruined. If they could have put the 4070B model out easily from the original tooling they would have done it by now. The fact they had to borrow an original kit seems to indicate they couldn't even get the old tooling to produce a marginally clean test shot without a lot of work.

The original 4070 kits shared about 80 to 85 percent of their parts. The major differences are the rear suspension, wheels, and I believe the B version has a single stack. It will be interesting to see if they made any provisions for different versions of this tooling. 

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5 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

The original 4070 kits shared about 80 to 85 percent of their parts. The major differences are the rear suspension, wheels, and I believe the B version has a single stack. It will be interesting to see if they made any provisions for different versions of this tooling. 

s-l1600.jpg.8e6144f8eb0e0fb6a99a20d6214b2f45.jpg

It would also require an entirely different front core section for the cab.  The B uses round headlights, but they're set into square surrounds, there are marker lights outboard of the grills, the center vent section is different (under the windshield split frame, the A is ribbed for your pleasure), and the B also has it's wipers roof mounted as well. Bumper is different too, but that's not a cab piece...

Now of course as we've seen with the Revell '68/'69 Chevelle - which has the year appropriate side cores tooled as swappable pieces - if Round2 thought far enough ahead in the core design, then a B is certainly possible.  

Edited by niteowl7710
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8 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

I'm going to guess the original tooling was ruined. If they could have put the 4070B model out easily from the original tooling they would have done it by now. The fact they had to borrow an original kit seems to indicate they couldn't even get the old tooling to produce a marginally clean test shot without a lot of work.

The original 4070 kits shared about 80 to 85 percent of their parts. The major differences are the rear suspension, wheels, and I believe the B version has a single stack. It will be interesting to see if they made any provisions for different versions of this tooling. 

As I understand it ERTL changed the original A version tooling to the B version so the A couldn't be done after that, and from what I have read it seems like Round 2 can't find the tooling for the CO 4070B Transtar II version in their inventory, it most likely still exists but might not have been included when they bought the AMT-MPC-Ertl toolings from RC2/Tomy, like the 1:25th scale Massey Ferguson, John Deere and International Harvester farm tractors, trailers and plows wich also seems to be missing, Tomy still owns the ERTL name and probably kept these plastic model kit tooling for some reason.

The CO-4070B version first had the same air ride suspension as the CO-4070A and the F-4270, it was changed to walking beam early in the production and the air ride B kits are rare, the stack is single as you say and the air intake system is also different on the B version.

Edited by Force
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When I did my Scale Auto article  a few years ago on all the 1/25th scale Ertl kits before they bought the AMT tooling bank, I did a detailed comparison of the two Ertl IH Cabover kits.  The changes between the two kits were far more extensive than I had imagined.  Too many to justify changing the existing tool back to the original form.   With this new approach, Round 2 will now have two complete kits to sell.  Brilliant move, one I never dreamed we would ever see in a million years......TIM 

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From what I see of Tim's Photo's This all new kit will be a fast seller a lot of the parts have been cleaned up Like the air bags etc... Round 2 Two thumbs up now your on the right track !!! and if anybody wants a sun visor for it  , Models by Dave make them the proper Lund visor .

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Looks like it will be a good time to get rid of the Eagle II and lowboy trailer I have. I bought them years ago thinking I would build them. But, I've never opened either one. I planned on building them along with a JD tractor and backhoe.

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7 hours ago, tim boyd said:

When I did my Scale Auto article  a few years ago on all the 1/25th scale Ertl kits before they bought the AMT tooling bank, I did a detailed comparison of the two Ertl IH Cabover kits.  The changes between the two kits were far more extensive than I had imagined.  Too many to justify changing the existing tool back to the original form.   With this new approach, Round 2 will now have two complete kits to sell.  Brilliant move, one I never dreamed we would ever see in a million years......TIM 

Are you sure about that Tim, I read somewhere that Round 2 couldn't find the tooling for the Co-4070B Transtar II Eagle and that it might not have been together with the other tooling when they bought it from Tomy...so I don't know but some problem has it been with it and the last time it was out was around 1996 and nothing after that.
I mean, people have asked for the Transtar II Eagle kit for many years now and Round 2 reissued the Transtar 4300 in 2009 and if the tooling was allright for the Transtar II Eagle it would have been out by now wouldn't it.

So I wouldn't get rid of the CO-4070B Transtar II Eagle kit just yet if you want one if I were you Roger because who knows if and when it will come back.

Edited by Force
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5 minutes ago, Force said:

Are you sure about that Tim, I read somewhere that Round 2 couldn't find the tooling for the Co-4070B Transtar II Eagle and that it might not have been together with the other tooling when they bought it from Tomy...so some problem has it been with it and the last time it was out was around 1996 and nothing after that.
I mean, people have asked for the Transtar II Eagle kit for many years now and Round 2 reissued the Transtar 4300 in 2009 and if the tooling was allright for the Transtar II Eagle it would have been out by now wouldn't it.

So I wouldn't get rid of the CO-4070B Transtar II Eagle kit just yet if I were you Roger because who knows if and when it will come back.

Good Point, Hakan....I do recall reading that Tomy had retained the tooling for the IH farm tractor kits, but I was not aware/had not heard that this might also extend as well to the IH Cabover tooling....TIM .  

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Well it's what I have read and that there has been some trouble with the tooling so something is up.
I wouldn't know why Tomy would keep the tooling for the farm equipment and the Cab Over  IH as they are not doing anything in 1:25th scale...so it's a bit strange.

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2 hours ago, Force said:

Are you sure about that Tim, I read somewhere that Round 2 couldn't find the tooling for the Co-4070B Transtar II Eagle and that it might not have been together with the other tooling when they bought it from Tomy...so I don't know but some problem has it been with it and the last time it was out was around 1996 and nothing after that.
I mean, people have asked for the Transtar II Eagle kit for many years now and Round 2 reissued the Transtar 4300 in 2009 and if the tooling was allright for the Transtar II Eagle it would have been out by now wouldn't it.

So I wouldn't get rid of the CO-4070B Transtar II Eagle kit just yet if you want one if I were you Roger because who knows if and when it will come back.

This is the point I was trying to make last night. If they could have easily put the B out from the old tooling they would have, they obviously recognize the demand for it. So, since they went to the expense of a completely new tooling either they don't have the original tooling or it's in a condition that it can't be repaired. 

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These are excellent points about the Transtar II. So, we can say that evidence suggests:

1. Due to popular demand, Round 2 most likely would have brought back the 4070B already, if the tooling was available to them and/or in good shape.

2. Having to completely reverse engineer the 4070A would also suggest that the 4070B tooling is not available, because that would have saved them some work, because they share a fair amount of parts, correct? And, even some parts could have been swapped, like the rear suspension, whether they were true to the original or not, (hasn’t stopped kit manufactures before from throwing in “close-enough” parts to bring a kit out) in order to save some time and costs on the 4070A.

Then...

Using only the new tooling of the A model, how close is Round 2 to being able to produce both kits? It seems like it is mostly cab parts, the chassis is mostly interchangeable, correct?

They’ve gone quite far to make the 4070A. Perhaps, they are willing to go a little further to make the 4070B.

I sure hope so.

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52 minutes ago, vincen47 said:

These are excellent points about the Transtar II. So, we can say that evidence suggests:

1. Due to popular demand, Round 2 most likely would have brought back the 4070B already, if the tooling was available to them and/or in good shape.

2. Having to completely reverse engineer the 4070A would also suggest that the 4070B tooling is not available, because that would have saved them some work, because they share a fair amount of parts, correct? And, even some parts could have been swapped, like the rear suspension, whether they were true to the original or not, (hasn’t stopped kit manufactures before from throwing in “close-enough” parts to bring a kit out) in order to save some time and costs on the 4070A.

Then...

Using only the new tooling of the A model, how close is Round 2 to being able to produce both kits? It seems like it is mostly cab parts, the chassis is mostly interchangeable, correct?

They’ve gone quite far to make the 4070A. Perhaps, they are willing to go a little further to make the 4070B.

I sure hope so.

There was only ever one tooling, it started as the A and was altered/updated into the B. If they were able to use it it would have produced the B as it was in the last 90s issue.

To produce a B model from the new tooling they wouldn't have to replicate the old kit exactly. They could just have an insert that has the differences in the front of the cab that were mentioned a few posts back and the square headlight surrounds. The engine, chassis, suspension, and wheels could all stay the same.

Edited by Fat Brian
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TowerHobbies.com has this kit (AMT 1203) available for pre-order (shipment due to arrive April 2021) with a price of only $29.99.   Thinking it is certainly a misprint, a few days ago I emailed their customer service to verify whether or not this price is correct, and haven't received a reply.  Just to see what will happen, I placed an order for 4 kits myself.  

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7 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

There was only ever one tooling, it started as the A and was altered/updated into the B. If they were able to use it it would have produced the B as it was in the last 90s issue.

To produce a B model from the new tooling they wouldn't have to replicate the old kit exactly. They could just have an insert that has the differences in the front of the cab that were mentioned a few posts back and the square headlight surrounds. The engine, chassis, suspension, and wheels could all stay the same.

As far as I have heard the rear suspension was changed in the 4070B kits because IH wanted ERTL to change it, they had stopped using the older air ride by the time the 4070B came and it was changed to walking beam instead, so Round 2 might have to do the same changes if they want a 4070B model kit to be correct.

Edited by Force
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37 minutes ago, Force said:

As far as I have heard the rear suspension was changed in the 4070B kits because IH wanted ERTL to change it, they had stopped using the older air ride by the time the 4070B came and it was changed to walking beam instead, so Round 2 might have to do the same changes if they want a 4070B model kit to be correct.

I wonder if there was a transition period where the air ride is okay for an early B but was phased out later or if the transition happened in the same year? Sounds like a research opportunity. 

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On 1/18/2021 at 8:15 PM, Champeen said:

TowerHobbies.com has this kit (AMT 1203) available for pre-order (shipment due to arrive April 2021) with a price of only $29.99.   Thinking it is certainly a misprint, a few days ago I emailed their customer service to verify whether or not this price is correct, and haven't received a reply.  Just to see what will happen, I placed an order for 4 kits myself.  

I just checked their web site, it now goes for $59.95! If you do get them for 29.99, you just made out like a fat rat in a cheese factory! Would love to see the for that price, I would buy 12 each, for that price! 

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On 1/18/2021 at 11:55 PM, Fat Brian said:

I wonder if there was a transition period where the air ride is okay for an early B but was phased out later or if the transition happened in the same year? Sounds like a research opportunity. 

I don't know if the CO-4070B Transtar II Eagle was available with that type of air ride, I just have heard that reason for the change.

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