ctruss53 Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) Attention Shapeways sellers! Please sell your parts somewhere else. Etsy, Ebay, or your own website. Shapeways is a ripoff. Your part might only cost $8. But after Shapeways is through with me that part costs $22 or more. I refuse to buy on Shapeways. Edited July 1, 2023 by ctruss53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 The problem is logistics. Shapeways makes things easy for the designer. All they have to do is to supply the 3D drawing. Shapeways does the rest. They take care of listing the part, selling and taking payment for it, then packaging and shipping. Most designers don't want to deal with all those hassles. They rather only deal with designing the parts, and collecting money. They don't want to run a complete retail business. it is a major paint in the behind. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_3D_Customs Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 3 hours ago, ctruss53 said: Attention Shapeways sellers! Please sell your parts somewhere else. Etsy, Ebay, or your own website. Shapeways is a ripoff. Your part might only cost $8. But after Shapeways is through with my that part costs $22 or more. I refuse to buy on Shapeways. You do realize that the people that are selling on shapeways is cuz they don't print them themselves they just design so having their own website kind of defeats the purpose who's going to print it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctruss53 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) error, let me reply differently. Edited July 1, 2023 by ctruss53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctruss53 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Texas_3D_Customs said: You do realize that the people that are selling on shapeways is cuz they don't print them themselves they just design so having their own website kind of defeats the purpose who's going to print it Yes, I know this. Which makes it that much more of a rip off. Example: If I go on Shapeways I have to pay someone $8 for a part. Then I have to pay $14 in fees and shipping for Shapeways to print it. When I could just buy the part from you, if you have it, for that same $8. So really, since these people are just designing, the part should be like $0.50 and then I pay Shapeways for the printing. It's a rip off. By the way, Texas 3D dude. I need a FWD transmission. Do you have any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_3D_Customs Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 46 minutes ago, ctruss53 said: Yes, I know this. Which makes it that much more of a rip off. Example: If I go on Shapeways I have to pay someone $8 for a part. Then I have to pay $14 in fees and shipping for Shapeways to print it. When I could just buy the part from you, if you have it, for that same $8. So really, since these people are just designing, the part should be like $0.50 and then I pay Shapeways for the printing. It's a rip off. By the way, Texas 3D dude. I need a FWD transmission. Do you have any? So no I don't have any front wheel drive transmissions at the moment I mean I actually have files for them but no I'm not making them right now and they will be on a Honda engine but to think you're going to pay someone $0.50 for a design I'm sorry that's unrealistic there are very few designs that are $0.50 for $0.50 I'll draw you a cylinder literally a cylinder nothing else maybe you don't think people's design time is worth that but if you were to offer me $5 for one of my engines I would just flat out laugh I'm not trying to be mean I'm trying to be realistic I don't sell my files anyway. But if you were to imply that my prices are too high at $25 for and engine with a transmission You're paying for both my design time My printing time my working time You're paying for all of that A lot of people don't seem to understand that when they buy an engine off me they are paying me for my designs. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctruss53 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Texas_3D_Customs said: So no I don't have any front wheel drive transmissions at the moment I mean I actually have files for them but no I'm not making them right now and they will be on a Honda engine but to think you're going to pay someone $0.50 for a design I'm sorry that's unrealistic there are very few designs that are $0.50 for $0.50 I'll draw you a cylinder literally a cylinder nothing else maybe you don't think people's design time is worth that but if you were to offer me $5 for one of my engines I would just flat out laugh I'm not trying to be mean I'm trying to be realistic I don't sell my files anyway. But if you were to imply that my prices are too high at $25 for and engine with a transmission You're paying for both my design time My printing time my working time You're paying for all of that A lot of people don't seem to understand that when they buy an engine off me they are paying me for my designs. You obviously don't get it. You sell printed parts for lets say $10. And you ship them to me for another $8. $18 Ok, follow me here. Now why should I pay someone on Shapeways that same $10 for the part, and then pay Shapeways $14 to print it and even more to ship it? But you can keep on blabbering. I am not saying your prices are too high. I am saying that on Shapeways I am basically paying for a part twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabbysdaddy Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, ctruss53 said: You obviously don't get it. You sell printed parts for lets say $10. And you ship them to me for another $8. $18 Ok, follow me here. Now why should I pay someone on Shapeways that same $10 for the part, and then pay Shapeways $14 to print it and even more to ship it? But you can keep on blabbering. I am not saying your prices are too high. I am saying that on Shapeways I am basically paying for a part twice. You obviously don't get it. Ok, follow me here. People on Shapeways don't sell an $8 part, they sell an $8 design. Then you also have to pay for the creation of the part and the shipping of the part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctruss53 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) Real example Texas 3D: You charge $3 for a Muncie transmission. I found one on Shapeways for $6. But after all their fees the part is $19. Why would I buy on Shapeways??? Edited July 1, 2023 by ctruss53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctruss53 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said: You obviously don't get it. Ok, follow me here. People on Shapeways don't sell an $8 part, they sell an $8 design. Then you also have to pay for the creation of the part and the shipping of the part. I do get it. That is why it is a rip off. Why should I pay someone for the design and the cost of printing, and then pay Shapeways for the cost of printing again? Edited July 1, 2023 by ctruss53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabbysdaddy Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, ctruss53 said: I do get it. That is why it is a rip off. Why should I pay someone for the design and the cost of printing, and then pay Shapeways for the cost of printing again? Because you didn't pay someone for the design and cost of printing, you only paid for the design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spex84 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 I sell some parts on Shapeways. It's a hobby. I get a couple bucks per part and SW gets the rest. I've considered starting my own website, but let's add up the work I'd have to do and $$ I'd spend for those couple bucks: 1. Research, compiling measurements, finding blueprints, taking reference photos, and planning the modeling project. 2. 3D modeling the part, reviewing the 3D mesh to ensure it is printable 3. Applying supports to the 3D model and slicing/exporting it. 4. Reviewing the sliced file and repairing "islands" that won't print properly. Possibly back to step 2 or 3 at this point. 5. Test printing, cleaning, and curing the part. (And printer cleanup, and re-levelling the print head). Possible return to steps 2-4 at this point. 6. Batch printing and curing. 7. Quality control, cleanup, labeling and sorting. 8. Website updates, social media posts, promo image creation 9. Listing product and adding images. 10. Answering queries from customers, managing orders 11. Packing, labeling and shipping packages. 12. Dealing with returns, broken items, lost packages, etc etc. Overhead: 3D printer, resin, spare print heads and vats, filters, cleaning medium (water or IPA), air circulation equipment, safety gear), possible replacement screens. Packing materials and other consumables would have to be factored in. And I'd have to pay for web hosting, of course. Needless to say, this is sounding like a full-time business that would require volume sales to be sustainable. I'd have to sell a ton of parts and focus only on products that would sell in large numbers. Or...I can let Shapeways take care of all of that, and spend my time doing the design part, which is what I enjoy. If I want to buy a Muncie, Mr. Texas3D's offering sounds like the deal of the freakin' century :D 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitchdup Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Because on shapeways they deal with the inevitable complaints and returns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) These 2 posts sum this up perfectly. Of course another solution to shapeways would be to buy a 3d printer and then buy files and print your own parts. 8 hours ago, Spex84 said: I sell some parts on Shapeways. It's a hobby. I get a couple bucks per part and SW gets the rest. I've considered starting my own website, but let's add up the work I'd have to do and $$ I'd spend for those couple bucks: 1. Research, compiling measurements, finding blueprints, taking reference photos, and planning the modeling project. 2. 3D modeling the part, reviewing the 3D mesh to ensure it is printable 3. Applying supports to the 3D model and slicing/exporting it. 4. Reviewing the sliced file and repairing "islands" that won't print properly. Possibly back to step 2 or 3 at this point. 5. Test printing, cleaning, and curing the part. (And printer cleanup, and re-levelling the print head). Possible return to steps 2-4 at this point. 6. Batch printing and curing. 7. Quality control, cleanup, labeling and sorting. 8. Website updates, social media posts, promo image creation 9. Listing product and adding images. 10. Answering queries from customers, managing orders 11. Packing, labeling and shipping packages. 12. Dealing with returns, broken items, lost packages, etc etc. Overhead: 3D printer, resin, spare print heads and vats, filters, cleaning medium (water or IPA), air circulation equipment, safety gear), possible replacement screens. Packing materials and other consumables would have to be factored in. And I'd have to pay for web hosting, of course. Needless to say, this is sounding like a full-time business that would require volume sales to be sustainable. I'd have to sell a ton of parts and focus only on products that would sell in large numbers. Or...I can let Shapeways take care of all of that, and spend my time doing the design part, which is what I enjoy. If I want to buy a Muncie, Mr. Texas3D's offering sounds like the deal of the freakin' century 9 hours ago, Texas_3D_Customs said: So no I don't have any front wheel drive transmissions at the moment I mean I actually have files for them but no I'm not making them right now and they will be on a Honda engine but to think you're going to pay someone $0.50 for a design I'm sorry that's unrealistic there are very few designs that are $0.50 for $0.50 I'll draw you a cylinder literally a cylinder nothing else maybe you don't think people's design time is worth that but if you were to offer me $5 for one of my engines I would just flat out laugh I'm not trying to be mean I'm trying to be realistic I don't sell my files anyway. But if you were to imply that my prices are too high at $25 for and engine with a transmission You're paying for both my design time My printing time my working time You're paying for all of that A lot of people don't seem to understand that when they buy an engine off me they are paying me for my designs. Edited July 1, 2023 by bobthehobbyguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Is the $8 for the file a one time charge ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctruss53 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 11 hours ago, Spex84 said: I sell some parts on Shapeways. It's a hobby. I get a couple bucks per part and SW gets the rest. I've considered starting my own website, but let's add up the work I'd have to do and $$ I'd spend for those couple bucks: 1. Research, compiling measurements, finding blueprints, taking reference photos, and planning the modeling project. 2. 3D modeling the part, reviewing the 3D mesh to ensure it is printable 3. Applying supports to the 3D model and slicing/exporting it. 4. Reviewing the sliced file and repairing "islands" that won't print properly. Possibly back to step 2 or 3 at this point. 5. Test printing, cleaning, and curing the part. (And printer cleanup, and re-levelling the print head). Possible return to steps 2-4 at this point. 6. Batch printing and curing. 7. Quality control, cleanup, labeling and sorting. 8. Website updates, social media posts, promo image creation 9. Listing product and adding images. 10. Answering queries from customers, managing orders 11. Packing, labeling and shipping packages. 12. Dealing with returns, broken items, lost packages, etc etc. Overhead: 3D printer, resin, spare print heads and vats, filters, cleaning medium (water or IPA), air circulation equipment, safety gear), possible replacement screens. Packing materials and other consumables would have to be factored in. And I'd have to pay for web hosting, of course. Needless to say, this is sounding like a full-time business that would require volume sales to be sustainable. I'd have to sell a ton of parts and focus only on products that would sell in large numbers. Or...I can let Shapeways take care of all of that, and spend my time doing the design part, which is what I enjoy. If I want to buy a Muncie, Mr. Texas3D's offering sounds like the deal of the freakin' century Since you are a Shapeways seller, I can't understand why you don't get what I am talking about. Texas 3D is selling a transmission for $3. He did all of your steps above. $3 and I get a transmission. If I go on Shapeways I pay someone $6 for the design. Then I pay again for Shapeways to print it. I can buy 6 of Texas 3D's transmissions for the price of one on Shapeways. Since you don't have any of the printing overhead, The design should cost much less. But none of you seem to get it, so I'll stop here. It is pointless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitchdup Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, ctruss53 said: 13 minutes ago, ctruss53 said: Since you don't have any of the printing overhead, The design should cost much less. do you also tell stores what they should be charging? have you taken into consideration the design programs cost money? the amount of hours in design time? since th architect didn't build the house why should we pay them seems to be your attitude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctruss53 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, stitchdup said: You are clueless as well. The programs are free. Paying for a modeling program is optional. There are free programs. They are not spending time printing. They come up with a design once and thats it. There is no overhead. If I go to Texas 3D or Iceman, they spent the time designing. AND they print it. But they cost many times LESS than Shapeways. Why can't anyone else see this rip off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 The difference is when you buy the file the seller has given you the right to make as many parts as you want and they will not make any more from that file from you. When you buy a part from a seller you only get the parts and no right to use the file. 5 minutes ago, stitchdup said: do you also tell stores what they should be charging? have you taken into consideration the design programs cost money? the amount of hours in design time? since th architect didn't build the house why should we pay them seems to be your attitude The costs for any product is based on what it costs for labor , material costs , and the design time for thee product. That is why when a new technology comes out the products are more expensive becuase of those development costs. There are always people who want to own a product first and are willing to pay more to get that new technology. Once the development costs are recovered then the prices go down. The prices for 3d printers are a perfect example of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_3D_Customs Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 So I'm going to say this shapeways is way overpriced especially for the quality they produce I'm not going to argue that What I am arguing is your logic about how much the designer is getting and I'm pretty sure I get it I mean if everybody in this conversation I think that I'm probably one of the most experienced people here as far as designing and selling. I like how you pulled in one of those items that was never intentional to be sold as an individual item Yes I sell a transmission for $3 that was never the intent but that's what people like to do now, but a whole engine cost $25 with a transmission and I think this is pretty obvious but even though I use better resin than most people I'm still making a profit off of it and how much I choose that's my business how much you pay your business if you don't like the prices on shapeways don't buy from them. The people who live there don't want to print but they also don't want to license off their designs Ron Olson is a very good example I've asked him told him I'd pay him royalty whatever he's making on shapeways I'll match it and I'll get added into the price but he wouldn't go for it He wants to keep control of his designs and I understand that. But to tell people they shouldn't list their stuff on shapeways and should print it themselves You're basically telling someone how to run their business. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_3D_Customs Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, ctruss53 said: You are clueless as well. The programs are free. Paying for a modeling program is optional. There are free programs. They are not spending time printing. They come up with a design once and thats it. There is no overhead. If I go to Texas 3D or Iceman, they spent the time designing. AND they print it. But they cost many times LESS than Shapeways. Why can't anyone else see this rip off? Yeah there's free versions of programs and there are straight up free programs. But I can tell you that the free version of let's say Fusion 360 is limited not only that but you are not supposed to use it for profit if you're on the free version. Some of the totally free CAD programs they're garbage for someone who's wanting to do very extensive modeling but when you say the cost of the program is free so it's really not even about how much the program costs it's about the time you have to put into it do you think that honestly that 426 Hemi I made was like a 4-hour job? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitchdup Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, ctruss53 said: You are clueless as well. The programs are free. Paying for a modeling program is optional. There are free programs. They are not spending time printing. They come up with a design once and thats it. There is no overhead. If I go to Texas 3D or Iceman, they spent the time designing. AND they print it. But they cost many times LESS than Shapeways. Why can't anyone else see this rip off? heres a tip my granny taught me that might help you make friends. good manners cost nothing but bad manners and rudeness cost respect. there you go, its free try and learn from it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my66s55 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ctruss53 said: You are clueless as well. The programs are free. Paying for a modeling program is optional. There are free programs. They are not spending time printing. They come up with a design once and thats it. There is no overhead. If I go to Texas 3D or Iceman, they spent the time designing. AND they print it. But they cost many times LESS than Shapeways. Why can't anyone else see this rip off? Ok. You say the files are free. So I suggest you do what many have done over the past few years. Buy a 3d printer, spend the time and money to learn how to use it. Make your own parts and learn a cad software to create your own files. Edited July 1, 2023 by my66s55 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctruss53 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 Just now, Texas_3D_Customs said: Yeah there's free versions of programs and there are straight up free programs. But I can tell you that the free version of let's say Fusion 360 is limited not only that but you are not supposed to use it for profit if you're on the free version. Some of the totally free CAD programs they're garbage for someone who's wanting to do very extensive modeling but when you say the cost of the program is free so it's really not even about how much the program costs it's about the time you have to put into it do you think that honestly that 426 Hemi I made was like a 4-hour job? Texas 3D. Don't take offence to this, but stop talking. I am against Shapeways, and supporting businesses like you. Why do you keep arguing with me? Yes, you take the time to design your parts. But if it takes 4 hours to design a part, you and I both know you can't charge that 4 hours to each and every part you sell. You have to divide it out. You have to be smart and spend time designing something that will sell over and over, so you can make that money back. Then you have the cost of printing. Now this you can charge on each and every part, because a part costs what it costs and thats a fixed thing. But you can reduce cost by printing several things at the same time. For example, if it costs you $3 to make one of those $3 transmissions, you can reduce the cost by making several of them in the same amount of print time. The only extra cost is the resin. I fully support what businesses like you do. You can justify your prices. $3 for a transmissione, $25 for an engine. It is all justified. That money actually buys me a part, or set of parts. But if I go on Shapeways, I am paying someone that same $3 for a transmission, or $25 for an engine, that I would pay you. Only on Shapeways that price only bought the design. Then I have to pay Shapeways again to get it printed out. And I have to pay even more if I want it faster than a month. So why on earth does anyone shop on Shapeways? They can buy the parts from someone like you for 1/3 or 1/4 the price. This is why Shapeways is a rip off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctruss53 Posted July 1, 2023 Author Share Posted July 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, my66s55 said: Ok. You say the files are free. So I suggest you do what many have done over the past few years. Buy a 3d printer, spend the time and money to learn how to use it. Make your own parts and learn a cad software to create your own files. I know CAD software. I use it all day, every day at work. I don't like the printing aspect. Thats why I pay for 3D printed parts from sellers like Texas 3D and Iceman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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