3D Printing........Scratch Building or Not?

[Bugatti Fan]

There seem to mixed views about 3D printing being classed as scratch building.

Can drawing up  3D parts on a computer instead of making things by hand the craftsman way be called scratch building?

[KMcc]

This is a very interesting question. For several years I've been interested in making a 1/25 scale Ford Model AA dump truck. After I found some Model AA reference material, I ventured into scratch building the components for the frame and rear suspension components. I used 2D cad software to sort things out and after several attempts, had moderate success shaping and laminating the leaf springs. Last year I began to realize that resin 3D printing was the perfect solution to creating all these parts. I loaded Freecad on my laptop and started creating the solid models of the components for the truck. It's a technology that fits into my CAD designing background and a more comfortable solution for me. The planning is the same as scratch building, but the ends to the means is a more accurate and detailed result. After all that, I guess 3D printing should be called "scratch creating'. It will require new skills to manipulate the CAD software, but hey, I'm still learning how to lay down a nice paint job on my car bodies. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

If a modeler creates the drawings and files the parts are printed from, I think it is still "scratch building", though it obviously involves an entirely different skill set than traditional methods employ.

On the other hand, if a modeler simply buys files and prints some parts and assembles them, there's nothing "scratch" about it...but extremely high-quality models can result.

The best models I've ever seen employ ALL the traditional physical skills as well as 3D design and printing.

Bill Cunningham is one builder who has set the bar pretty high in this area, and frankly, I don't see how the excellence of his work can ever be exceeded. His 1/24 "birdcage" Maserati has to be seen to be believed. It is easily in the same league as Gerald Wingrove's models.

                                              https://cs.finescale.com/fsm/m/online/1581167.aspx

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[iamsuperdan]

Although I agree with Bill's point, I think if it came down to it and I had to give a definitive yes or no, I'd say no. 3D printing is not scratch building. I see it as assembly of parts, it's not physically creating the parts.

 

[bobthehobbyguy]

I agree with Bill. If you are creating your files yourself then you are creating the parts from scratch. I see it as another tool in the arsenal and there will be those who do it really well and those that will do an OK job.

Check out this series of creating a model from the files from a new video game using 3d printing. It uses a wide variety of disciplines to create it ,including scratchbuilding where it is more appropriate than using 3d printing.

 

[Tabbysdaddy]

It's called scratch building, not scratch printing. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

If something is being created from nothing then it is scratchbuilt. The only difference is what tools being used to get there. The tools being only as the person who is wielding them.

[stinkybritches]

Here's my 2 cents, do with it what you wish. If something does not exist to me and then I glue some styrene together and shape it into a part, that's scratch building. If something does not exist to me and I use 3d software and design a part and then print it out, it's still scratch building. Printing a part that someone else modeled is no different than cutting a part from a sprue. Modeling the part yourself is the scratch part. 

To sum up, scratch building is scratch building no matter the medium used to make the part.

[stitchdup]

3d printing isn't scratchbuilding, its just having the aftermarket on your bench as another tool. Even if you build the file from scratch (pun intended) its not really what we would consider scratchbuilding as to the majority of us on the forum scratchbuilt means its a one off and an easily printed file isn't that. Its more kit creating than scratching

[stinkybritches]

2 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

If something is being created from nothing then it is scratchbuilt. The only difference is what tools being used to get there. The tools being only as the person who is wielding them.

Your post came up as I was finalizing my post. We said the same thing but your post was much more to the point.

[afx]

Creating a painting by hand and creating one on a computer – both are art and require skill but are not the same.

Physical modeling and 3D modeling both require skill and creativity but are not the same.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I look at it from the perspective of resin casting.

Casting a part in resin is not scratch building.

Therefore, printing a part in resin shouldn't be considered scratch building either.

 

The argument could be made that the "original" part that was made to be cast could be scratch made, but subsequent copies are just that......copies.

My opinion would be that the original design for the printed part "might" be able to be considered scratch made, but try putting a CAD design on your model.

Once the part is printed, it's a copy of the original design, and ceases to be a scratch made part.

 

The basis for this theory came to me when I considered the interior that I made for my '68 Coronet.

Elements of that interior were actually "scratch made", but I would not consider the subsequent resin cast parts offered by Ed Fluck Jr, (even the very first set to be cast), as scratch made.

 

In the end, If I were judging a contest, I would give more consideration to a part that was created by hand, using "raw materials", than I would to a part created on a computer and printer.

 

Another way to look at it would be, would a set of decals, even though created by the modeler, on a computer and printed, be on the same level as someone who "painted" the same design on their model?

My opinion?........no.

 

I think that we can all agree that it's possible to produce much better parts through 3-D printing than scratch building in many instances, but there still must be something to be said for the guy that sits down at his bench with an array of raw materials laid out before him, and somehow manages, through his own thought and dexterity, to produce something that didn't exist before.

 

Maybe it's just my "old school" attitude, but I find that to much more impressive than making something through a computer program.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Edited September 20, 2023 by StevenGuthmiller

[Ace-Garageguy]

Here's something to think about that illustrates well (I think) whether creating drawings and files to print from is actually "scratchbuilding".

The basis of the concept of "scratchbuilding" is that something is created "from scratch". Like making a cake from flour and milk and eggs, sugar, etc., as opposed to using a mix (a "kit", if you will).

"From scratch" means something is created from the most basic components or materials, shaped and combined in a way that didn't exist previously. Someone who creates his own 3D-printable files from measurements obtained from a real object...or from his own imagination...has used electrons, pretty "basic" components, to shape and combine design elements (lines and curves and volumes are also very "basic") inside a computer, displayed on a screen, and ultimately fed to a tool that transforms them into physical reality.

Another example: I'm a machinist. I often shape raw metal or other "basic" stock into my personally-designed objects using an old-school manual lathe and vertical mill, controlling every cut and motion with my own hands.

I also occasionally design parts in CAD, and use CNC milling machines to physically "make" the parts from raw stock...particularly when I need multiple copies of something quickly.

In both cases, it is my own mind that is the origin of the part in question, my mind that has employed tools of various levels of sophistication (including my own hands) to reshape physical reality.

And in both cases, I'm comfortable saying "I made" the parts...though I always distinguish whether I used CNC machines to perform the actual physical work.

By saying "scratchbuilding" is only applicable to hand-made model parts would be akin to saying that unless I used nothing but hand-powered saws, chisels, files, and drills to machine a real-world part, I didn't actually "make" it.

But in the final analysis, "scratchbuilt"...or not...is simply a matter of semantics. 

If YOU created the files, just say so, and avoid a pointless and pedantic discussion that can never really be settled.

(As a side note, I occasionally see modelers refer to their work as "scratchbuilding" when in fact it is modification of pre-existing kit parts. Modification, no matter how extreme, is not scatchbuilding, though many of the same physical skills are employed...and entirely scratchbuilt parts are frequently included in heavily modified models)

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I look at it from the perspective of resin casting.

Casting a part in resin is not scratch building...

Agreed, but creating the master by hand (from which molds are made) is...

Edited September 20, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tabbysdaddy]

Designing a file isn't building. The architect designs the house but I build it.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

Designing a file isn't building. The architect designs the house but I build it.

A much shorter and more salient argument than my long post. 

 

And to add to your point, subsequently printing or casting that file is not scratch building either, therefore, I'm going to say no, 3-D printing is not scratch building.

 

 

Steve

Edited September 20, 2023 by StevenGuthmiller

[Gramps46]

Back in the '70s I was carving model bodies from fine grain wood and thought of that as scratch building.  I think I will stick with that convention. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

7 minutes ago, Gramps46 said:

Back in the '70s I was carving model bodies from fine grain wood and thought of that as scratch building.  I think I will stick with that convention. 

I'll agree with that.

 

 

 

Steve

[Fat Brian]

There's a lot of gray area here. Even with printed parts they are rarely direct replacements for kit parts so there is almost always a degree of fitting required to make the finished product shelf-worthy. I think I fall on JC's side that it's an entirely different skill set but still a creative activity. I know when I built 3d models I put as much time and effort into it as I did a traditional model, the process was just entirely different. 

[Pierre Rivard]

1 hour ago, Gramps46 said:

Back in the '70s I was carving model bodies from fine grain wood and thought of that as scratch building.  I think I will stick with that convention. 

First, let me say this model is incredibly fabulous. Tou could have used a CAD file and mill that block  with CNC and voila! But you could not say you scratch built it!

[Tom Geiger]

Interesting conversation!  

As said, if I sit down at the computer and have earned the skills to design in 3D, I would consider it scratch building.  It doesn't matter that the it is output through a device... aka the printer.  

I don't see this as much different than someone who designs machined parts on a lathe.  Note that there are NC driven lathe's that will "print" on the aluminum.  

Same with decals.  If I design the decals, and print it  on decal paper, those are indeed my original art. 

All of the above take advantage of technology as it has emerged. Just like drafting and art has been enhanced by CAD and graphics programs.  In my business of facility design, nobody has ever said a floor plan wasn't mine because I designed it on CAD rather than on a drafting board.

My own thought is  "has new technology made things too easy?"

I remember back when I wanted specific graphics on a model and I had to piece together parts from different decal sheets.  The last time I did decals, designing what I needed in PowerPoint, it was too easy!  And I got exactly what I wanted, VS settling for what I could find.

Same with 3D printing.  I've scratch built a lot of things in plastic. I've created parts by combining plastic shapes from my junk box with bits of plastic sheet. I've made entire bodies.   On the last one I did, shown below, scratch built the body, all the while thinking this would be easier to draw and print!   

Thoughts?

 

[peteski]

While I hate to use that term, the paradigm has shifted.

If someone has the CAD skills to design and then print (at home) their design on a 3D printer, that part is scratchbuilt just as much if it was created by gluing and shaping (by hand) some pieces of plastic.  In the case of 3D, that "hand" is on a computer mouse carving the design on the computer screen.  The brain is commanding that hand in either method of making that part.

How about artists (painters)?  While someone can paint painting on a blank canvas using paints and paintbrush, someone else can create just as beautiful paintings on their computer screen. Does the fact that the painting was drawn on a computer make the artist less of an artist?

[StevenGuthmiller]

So by the logic of those who say that it is indeed scratch building, when the technology arrives, (and I can imagine that it will), that someone can create an entire finished model sitting in front of a computer screen, and never have to touch it, except for removing it from whatever machine does the actual construction and placing it in a case, that will be a scratch built model.

 

I suppose if that's the prevailing view, so be it, but it's not my world.

 

In my world, a true artist works with his hands.

I'm sure that there are machines in existence today that through computer programs can create a complete kit of an intricately carved faux Chippendale, but I'm sorry, I'll never, under any circumstance equate that with the real article.

 

That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

 

 

 

 

Steve 

[Richard Bartrop]

Bill has the right idea.  If you create the file, then it's scratchbuilding.   If you think creating that file involves no effort or creativity, then you don't understand the process, and your opinions on it are without value.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Richard Bartrop

[Tabbysdaddy]

You didn't build a part, you printed a part. You didn't build a file, you designed a file. You have to actually build a part for it to be scratch built. It's an impressive skill, yes, but unless we're changing the definition of words again it's not scratch built. I guess made from scratch would work for me.