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1:16 Gunze Sangyo 1937 Rolls-Royce Phantom III Sports Saloon


Anglia105E

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3 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Probably would not hurt to try the C1 powder. Will save you a lot of work I would imagine.  If it doesn't work for you then it is still a useful thing to have in your finishing armoury. 

You need to follow your own instinct on what way to go forward.

As the slats are straight another alternative may be to use Bare Meal Foil, but could be a bit fiddly to apply.

Okay Noel, and point taken . . . The vertical slats are Gunze Sangyo original chrome (40 years), and the upper section of the grille is my Molotow Liquid Chrome applied with a brush . . . I noticed the price on the C1 website is £12.00, so cheaper than eModels https://www.c1-models.com/c1-metalizer

I shall let you know how I get on with the C1 powder if I give it a try !

David

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For a large part of today, I was attempting to align the steering column and steering box with the floor board, firewall and chassis. This is actually proving to be extremely difficult . . . There is a hole on the side of the steering box which has to be glued onto a pin that potrudes from the side member of the chassis, close to the engine block. The pin for the steering box is only just visible from above the chassis, as there is a plate below the chassis that obcsures the view . . . Then it gets interesting, and challenging. The lower body goes into position, and this has an upper plate that hides the steering box completely. According to the Gunze Sangyo instruction sheet, the floorboard is glued to the lower body, before the steering column has to feed through the hole in the floorboard . . . My difficulty with this, is that once all five pieces come together, including the firewall, I shall have no means of making sure that the steering box is glued onto the chassis pin, as I can neither see it nor get at it . . . There has to be a certain amount of up and down movement to allow for the steering column to feed through the floorboard hole, but the lower end must be glued onto the pin !

This will not be the only difficult stage in the assembly, as there will be a similar coming together of around six pieces when I attempt to assemble the division, the inner door posts, front and rear seats and the upper body . . . all of which must mount on the floorboard, lower body and chassis.

I can fully understand the instruction sheet, and I have carried out countless test fitting exercises, but these two stages of the build in particular are the most worrying for me . . . I really want the car to be quite strong and therefore easy to handle, but many of the attachment methods seem to be too flimsy from my point of view . . .

David

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Wow David, that is quite a puzzle!

I sometimes wonder if the designers of some of these kits have actually ever completed building one.

I know you'll find a way to make it work. I find that sometimes setting the task aside for a few days allows it to simmer on the back burners of the mind yielding what I call the "subconscious solution".

David G. 

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4 hours ago, David G. said:

Wow David, that is quite a puzzle!

I sometimes wonder if the designers of some of these kits have actually ever completed building one.

I know you'll find a way to make it work. I find that sometimes setting the task aside for a few days allows it to simmer on the back burners of the mind yielding what I call the "subconscious solution".

David G. 

You are right there David, this is indeed quite a puzzle . . . I would be interested to know if any of the Gunze Sangyo designers actually completed a build of one of their kits. They have done a marvellous job of putting the whole thing together, which is no easy task, so I would rather not criticise any aspect of the build . . . As far as possible, I have followed the instruction sheet with this Phantom III and then used my own common sense when I can see that a certain method of assembly cannot realistically work.

I am confident that I can overcome these temporary setbacks, and of course this is all part of the learning process I guess !

The subconscious solution has often worked for me, because it seems that when you ' sleep on it ' , the problem does not look so scary the next day !

David W.

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I might think about cutting the column from the box, drilling both and gluing a pin into one of them, probably the column.

Glue the box in, then after the glue dries, pull the column up and out, then proceed being able to push the column back through everything from the top when you're ready?

 

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17 hours ago, dino246gt said:

I might think about cutting the column from the box, drilling both and gluing a pin into one of them, probably the column.

Glue the box in, then after the glue dries, pull the column up and out, then proceed being able to push the column back through everything from the top when you're ready?

 

That is good thinking on your part Dennis, thank you . . . You could say that is thinking outside the box ( pun intended ! ) Thinking outside the steering box.

I was already toying with the idea of cutting the column from the box, and I did start thinking along the lines of inserting a metal pin into the box . . .

Anyway, I am pleased to report, on Tuesday evening it all came together at once, and the steering box with column attached is glued in place.

The solution was to move the model to a table in my kitchen, where the overhead tube lighting was much better, and I used a handheld torch to align the steering box hole with the pin on the chassis member and it all fitted beautifully !

Thanks again for your constructive suggestion Dennis, and I shall post a full report with photos later today . . .

David

 

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Success !!! . . . At last I was able to achieve the fitting of the steering column part . . . The solution was to move the model to my kitchen table, where the overhead lighting was much better, and also to make use of a handheld torch to align the steering box in relation to the chassis . . . I could just about make out the hole in the side of the steering box, so this was filled with Revell styrene glue. Also, I could just make out the pin on the side of the chassis member, and following a lengthy and careful manipulation of the part I managed to locate the pin in the hole . . .

This relatively simply operation took me around two hours, but the end result was extremely satisfying . . . Some time later, I was even able to test fit the steering wheel onto the top of the steering column, along with it's central hub and controls.

I was quite nervous about the floorboard being in the correct position, and especially nervous about the precise position of the firewall, but as far as I can see, these two component parts appear to be located correctly . . .

David

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9 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

This is really coming together well.

   Old larger scale classics are quite appealing and a refreshing change from all the modern stuff.

Thanks Noel, and this is what led me to take on this older large scale Rolls-Royce kit . . . The modern stuff does not appeal to me at all . . .

David

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It's the little victories that make life worth living. I'm glad for your success with that challenging step in the build David.

 The progress photos look great! It's nice watching this delightful kit come together.

I imagine that all these automobiles were hand-built to order when they were made. I wonder how the build time for the actual vehicles would compare to the time you've invested in building yours.

David G.

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15 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

This is really coming together well.

   Old larger scale classics are quite appealing and a refreshing change from all the modern stuff.

One thing I've found about the 1/16 classics is that, being very accurate, the suspensions are quite fragile and could use some kind of reinforcement, maybe metal rods.

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5 hours ago, David G. said:

It's the little victories that make life worth living. I'm glad for your success with that challenging step in the build David.

 The progress photos look great! It's nice watching this delightful kit come together.

I imagine that all these automobiles were hand-built to order when they were made. I wonder how the build time for the actual vehicles would compare to the time you've invested in building yours.

David G.

Thanks very much David, and each hurdle overcome is one more step nearer to completion . . .

There were 727 Phantom III motor cars produced during a four year period between 1936 and 1939, so roughly 181 cars per year. Remarkably, around 650 of these have survived to this day . . .

I shall post a few more photos later today, which show the rear end of the chassis . . . There is a serious distortion of the chassis frame going on, specifically the passenger side rear . . . This requires further investigation before proceeding !

Rolls-Royce managed to produce 15 cars per month, and so far my one build has taken 5 months . . .

David W.

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4 hours ago, sjordan2 said:

One thing I've found about the 1/16 classics is that, being very accurate, the suspensions are quite fragile and could use some kind of reinforcement, maybe metal rods.

Yes indeed Skip, I did find the front suspension in particular was rather fragile as you say . . . This fragility is compounded by the addition of working steering. For the most part, I would say that Gunze Sangyo have achieved a good balance of accuracy and strength, within the constraints of the original design . . .

David

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Here are three photos showing the severe distortion at the rear passenger side of the chassis . . . The second photo was my first assessment of the problem, and the third photo was taken after some adjustment. As you can see, the chassis is far from level at this point, and both edges of the floorboard are not actually glued to the lower body ( fenders / wings ) . . . During the tricky process of bringing the main components together, I did apply glue to the outer edges of the floorboard, but these surfaces are no longer making contact.

Currently I am referring back to the drawings of the chassis that appear at the very beginning of the instruction sheet, in an attempt to work out what might be causing this issue . . .

David

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1 hour ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Yoda.    'Patience to must have.'

 Joking apart David.    Not an easy problem to overcome, but I am sure you will find a way !

Thanks Noel . . . Your good humour is much appreciated. This one will not be easy, that's for sure, but there is always a way !

David

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Having embarked on a process of pressing, twisting, sqeezing, forcing and persuading the components of the chassis to conform to some semblance of what it should be, I have arrived at a better place . . . The floorboard and chassis seem to be in a state of tension, whereby they are pushing against one another, and neither of them wants to give !

Anyway, the end result is good enough to proceed with the assembly of the body parts.

During the physical struggle between model builder and model, the passenger side rear wheel has dropped off the stub axle, and I cannot find a way of attaching the wheel so that it rotates, as do the other three wheels . . . Now I think about this, maybe if one wheel is glued in a fixed position then the model car cannot roll off a not quite level surface, and plunge to it's death !

The wheel is glued on, and setting overnight . . .

David

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There's always a twist to the plat, isn't there David? ;) 

It's alright to joke about it now that you've overcome the issue, nicely done BTW!

I always build my models with fixed wheels. The last thing I want is to have one go off on some self-guided tour of the floor.

I'm glad you were able to get the matter resolved with little collateral damage.

David G. 

 

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7 hours ago, David G. said:

There's always a twist to the plat, isn't there David? ;) 

It's alright to joke about it now that you've overcome the issue, nicely done BTW!

I always build my models with fixed wheels. The last thing I want is to have one go off on some self-guided tour of the floor.

I'm glad you were able to get the matter resolved with little collateral damage.

David G. 

 

Yes, I can appreciate the ' fixed wheel ' approach now that I think it through properly !

Productive update will be posted later today . . .

David W.

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I realised that with absolute certainty, the division for this Phantom III must be fitted FIRST, that is to say before the inner door posts. The Gunze Sangyo instruction sheet clearly shows the posts being glued to the chassis, before the division is added afterwards . . . The more I have thought about this, the more convinced I have become about the correct order of assembly . . . The division is actually right at the very centre of this car, and everything else around the division is supported by the part, as each further part is fitted.

This turned out to be one of those very productive days, when model building becomes a sheer delight . . . Once the division was firmly set in place, and the two door posts were upright and square, the front seat was positioned in front of the division, and glued to the door posts at the inner corners. The rear seat was also glued in place, and I moved on to the division glass and frame . . . This was rather tricky, but I managed to glue the division glass frame into the right place, although the glass itself popped out of the frame. The glass is only held in place by Crystal Clear glue, which is not particularly strong, but I can replace the glass at some point . . . Some brown Sharpie was applied to the gear lever knob and also the handbrake lever knob, which looks better than plain black. While I was on a roll, so to speak, I glued the steering wheel onto the top of the steering column, and also the central hub controls . . .

When the upper body is mated with the lower body, during the next day or so, it remains to be seen whether or not the sockets on the underside of the roof interior are going to line up with the top edges of the door posts, and consequently, will the front and rear parts of the upper body sit squarely onto the lower body? . . . My plan is to place the upper body on it's roof on a soft cloth, and hopefully I shall be able to see the sockets aligning with the door post tops ( or not ) . . . !!!

David

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I've learned over the years not to use the instructions all the time they are more references then anything . That said I do not know this kit not my cup of tea but still great and I keep coming back to see the progress your doing model on !!

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