Northrop's P-61 Black Widow by Revell: WIP

[Little Timmy]

Nice job so far !

I seem to recall that I installed some weights under the pilots floorboards.

( I may be confusing this kit with another airplane.... glue fumes you know ... )

 

[David G.]

12 hours ago, mustang1989 said:

Whoa HO HO!!!! Looky what we've got here!!! I'll be dialed into this one Dave! 

First off, you are tha frickin' MAN for taking this old kit on and then making it look as good as it does so far bud. I've seen many a builder throw this kit into the trash can by now so my hat goes off to you for sticking with this one bud. 

Secondly, (and this is conjunction with my first point) this is some master class foot work you're doing to this thing. You're correcting pretty much ALL of the issues with this troublesome kit and doing a great job of it at that. 

I'm in on this. 

My kindest thanks Joe, it's nice having one's skills and efforts recognized. ❤️ 

 

11 hours ago, Little Timmy said:

Nice job so far !

I seem to recall that I installed some weights under the pilots floorboards.

( I may be confusing this kit with another airplane.... glue fumes you know ... )

 

Thank you Tim. 

I do have some plans for adding weight, I'll have to see how it works out. Revell does provide a clear plastic stick to hold the tail up but I'd rather use weight if I can.

Thanks,

David G.

 

[David G.]

Hello Everybody!

Here's another update on Revell's P-61 Black Widow... the struggle continues  

I was wondering how I was going to paint the zinc chromate on the inside of the canopy frames when a brilliant thought occurred to me. The gray-green on the outside of the canopy frames needed a second coat to get good coverage so why not put that second coat under the first one? 

Remove the paint that's already on the canopies, paint the zinc chromate first, then paint the gray-green over top of the zinc chromate! The zinc chromate would show on the inside of the canopies and provide a good base for the gray-green on the outside!  Brilliant!

I can't be the first person to come up with this but it is the first time for me.  

So now the green is gone.

 

 

Here's the first coat, the zinc chromate, Tamiya XF-4 Yellow-Green. 

 

 

Here is the second coat in Tamiya XF-76 Gray-Green.

 

 

Everything still fits well enough and I think the color on the canopy frames is a good match to the rest of the plane. The zinc chromate can even be seen on the inside of the canopy frames!

 

As always, thanks for taking the time to look and please feel free to comment.

David G.

[David G.]

Hello Everybody!

It's time for another update on Revell's Northrop P-61.

I'm working on getting the booms put together. The problem is that they have to be assembled before I can build them. This means placing painted, finished subassemblies into a structure that has yet to be assembled, painted and finished. Here I have the finished and painted landing gear and doors that have to go into a boom that will still need to be glued together, filed, sanded and painted.

This isn't a big problem if the larger pieces go together neatly and cleanly. These do not. There are some significant alignment problems that will need to be addressed.

 

 

But not before I do a quick test fit. Yes, I know that the plane is supposed to be level. I'm working on that too.

 

 

With both of the booms knocked together, it's time to get on with fixing their issues.

 

 

I'm using Silly Putty to keep paint out of and off of the areas that are already painted and finished.

 

 

After a couple rounds of filling, priming and sanding, the lower section is mostly done.

 

 

The upper section still needs a little more work.

 

As always, thanks for taking the time to look and please feel free to comment if you wish.

David G.

[mustang1989]

I've seen plenty of these aircraft get built up and you're doing a phenomenal job of bringing this one together very cleanly Dave. Good work man.

[HJK]

Hi David, I really don't want to be nosy but I had some thoughts about your leveling problem. So, if there is some space inside the rounded nose part and there is no detail you might want to show you can then add some of the lead shot into it. As the nose is even in front of the front wheel the weight in it will at least help to level the plane. Even when it's a little more weight than you really need it's of no harm as the weight will be supported by the front wheel and might be able to compensate for the weight of the tail part. Well, I'm not a native speaker of your language, so I hope you understand my rough English and can see which way I wanted to go. In case you don't understand what I wanted to express please don't hesitate to ask back. Hope it's of any help anyway. Keep up your fabulous work and take care, Juergen.

[David G.]

18 hours ago, mustang1989 said:

I've seen plenty of these aircraft get built up and you're doing a phenomenal job of bringing this one together very cleanly Dave. Good work man.

Thank you most kindly Joe.

 

17 hours ago, HJK said:

Hi David, I really don't want to be nosy but I had some thoughts about your leveling problem. So, if there is some space inside the rounded nose part and there is no detail you might want to show you can then add some of the lead shot into it. As the nose is even in front of the front wheel the weight in it will at least help to level the plane. Even when it's a little more weight than you really need it's of no harm as the weight will be supported by the front wheel and might be able to compensate for the weight of the tail part. Well, I'm not a native speaker of your language, so I hope you understand my rough English and can see which way I wanted to go. In case you don't understand what I wanted to express please don't hesitate to ask back. Hope it's of any help anyway. Keep up your fabulous work and take care, Juergen.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts Juergen. I have been considering the weight and balance matter throughout the build and I have a few options in mind. I've already purchased some lead shot to use somewhere in the nose of the aircraft. I have considered, as you suggest adding the weight to the nosecone which covers the radar unit. I do want to keep the radar unit and display the aircraft with the radar exposed as a point of visual interest for the diorama I'm planning.

 

There is some space between the cockpit and the radar unit and under the floor as well. I'm going to see how much weight I can get into those areas. It may not be enough but I'm going to try. I already filled the hollow space within the nosewheel with lead shot.    Silly, I know. But doing that did bring its weight up to a little over 1 gram and every little bit helps!  

If I'm not able to get enough weight into the nose to balance the plane, I am prepared to make use of the clear styrene support provided in the kit. It's not an ideal option but every scale model has its compromises, doesn't it?

You have no need to worry about your English Jurgen, I had no difficulty understanding your message.

Your English is waaaaay better than my Deutsche!  

Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts Jurgen. It was most kind of you to do so.

David G.

[peteski]

How about adding some weight into the engine nacelles (right behind the engines)?  While it will not make much difference, it might just be enough for the model to stay on all 3 wheels.  Just make sure to add the weight forward of the main gear.

[David G.]

14 hours ago, peteski said:

How about adding some weight into the engine nacelles (right behind the engines)?  While it will not make much difference, it might just be enough for the model to stay on all 3 wheels.  Just make sure to add the weight forward of the main gear.

I'm considering that too Peter, all options are on the table. I plan adding weight in those locations if I'm unable get enough in the nose area. It should be pretty easy using the open gear bay doors.

It's too bad I can't get some depleted uranium, it's almost twice the density of lead!  

Thanks for your suggestions Peter, I'll certainly be considering that as an option.

David G.

[Little Timmy]

Depleted  Uranium?!?!?!?

Woa,  hold on there a minute.

This is a "Night Fighter " ...

( you wouldn't want to give away your location because your  plane  is glowing in the dark... )

 

[peteski]

Actually depleted uranium was used as a counterbalance weights in Boeing 747 Jumbo Jets, and for a more fun application Jim FitzGerald (founder of the NTRAK modular N scale system) build an N scale locomotive called "Cotton Brute" which used depleted uranium as weights to maximize its pulling ability.

By Jim Fitzgeral from NTRak NewsletterSept/Oct 1983

The "Cotton Brute" and long trains.
The origional goal was a 500 car train based on a N&W 500 car train that ran from West Virginia to Ohio when remote control mid train helpers were first used by N&W.
The “Cotton Brute” was the star of a series of special locomotives that I built for long train tries. I did a word search for four and five letter words starting with "B". Other locomotives were Cotton Bell, Cotton Bull and Cotton Boss, all in SP / Cotton Belt scarlet and grey.
The photo of the Cotton Brute is a composite showing the complete engine in the foreground and an exploded view. The long fuel tank/frame is indeed depleted uranium. Where I worked we had made some experimental gyros of the material. Other materials were easier to precisely machine.
The top weights are machined from lead and completely fill the thin shell. The engine weighs 24 oz, 1-1/2 pounds and has a Sagami 1630 motor. The longest train with just the Cotton Brute on the head end was 560 Kadee (MicroTrains) two bay coal cars. The custom layout had 72" minimum radius curves in a folded dogbone shape.
There were 560 Kadee two bay hoppers with modified Rapido couplers used for the long train efforts.
The layout used was built just for long trains. It was single track with 6 foot minimum radius in a “dogbone” shape. There was one trailing point turnout from a siding used to set up additional strings of cars to add to the train. The modules were about 4’ long and made from 3/8” particle board.

Sorry for going a bit off-topic but it is such a cool story.

[David G.]

11 hours ago, Little Timmy said:

Depleted  Uranium?!?!?!?

Woa,  hold on there a minute.

This is a "Night Fighter " ...

( you wouldn't want to give away your location because your  plane  is glowing in the dark... )

 

 That's funny! 

Thanks for the chuckle Tim.

 

9 hours ago, peteski said:

Actually depleted uranium was used as a counterbalance weights in Boeing 747 Jumbo Jets, and for a more fun application Jim FitzGerald (founder of the NTRAK modular N scale system) build an N scale locomotive called "Cotton Brute" which used depleted uranium as weights to maximize its pulling ability.

By Jim Fitzgeral from NTRak NewsletterSept/Oct 1983

The "Cotton Brute" and long trains.
The origional goal was a 500 car train based on a N&W 500 car train that ran from West Virginia to Ohio when remote control mid train helpers were first used by N&W.
The “Cotton Brute” was the star of a series of special locomotives that I built for long train tries. I did a word search for four and five letter words starting with "B". Other locomotives were Cotton Bell, Cotton Bull and Cotton Boss, all in SP / Cotton Belt scarlet and grey.
The photo of the Cotton Brute is a composite showing the complete engine in the foreground and an exploded view. The long fuel tank/frame is indeed depleted uranium. Where I worked we had made some experimental gyros of the material. Other materials were easier to precisely machine.
The top weights are machined from lead and completely fill the thin shell. The engine weighs 24 oz, 1-1/2 pounds and has a Sagami 1630 motor. The longest train with just the Cotton Brute on the head end was 560 Kadee (MicroTrains) two bay coal cars. The custom layout had 72" minimum radius curves in a folded dogbone shape.
There were 560 Kadee two bay hoppers with modified Rapido couplers used for the long train efforts.
The layout used was built just for long trains. It was single track with 6 foot minimum radius in a “dogbone” shape. There was one trailing point turnout from a siding used to set up additional strings of cars to add to the train. The modules were about 4’ long and made from 3/8” particle board.

Sorry for going a bit off-topic but it is such a cool story.

 

That is a cool story Peter.

At 24 oz that is one heavy N-scale loco! ? It must have felt like a brick when in hand.

I actually did look into depleted uranium and it's currently about $35 per gram. Knowing that I need around 2 oz to balance the plane, that would be about $2000.00 worth of depleted U!

And I don't even know how to work with the stuff! ? 

If I did buy several ounces of the stuff, I'm sure it would be delivered by an agent of whichever federal regulatory agency is most applicable.

I'll stick to lead shot, thanks  

-D-

 

[David G.]

Hello Everybody!

Progress, however slight is progress!

I ordered 2 pounds of lead shot. I know that I only need a couple of ounces but it was either this or 25 pounds! Besides, I'm sure to find other uses for it. 

 

 

Starting to fill the nose section with lead shot. I plan to use PVA and build up in layers, eventually filling the entire cavity.

 

 

I also started adding some panel line darkener to the wings.

 

As always, thanks for taking the time to look and please feel free to comment.

David G.

[mustang1989]

LOL!! What a jump between 2 and 25 lbs of lead shot!! I've seen this stuff used for counterweights in aircraft builds before and it works great. Watching for the next updates Dave. 

[David G.]

23 hours ago, mustang1989 said:

LOL!! What a jump between 2 and 25 lbs of lead shot!! I've seen this stuff used for counterweights in aircraft builds before and it works great. Watching for the next updates Dave. 

Yeah, it was two different companies. 

I'm glad to have you following along Joe. I finally feel that I'm getting a handle on this build. I find myself feeling that I actually "want" to work on it instead of feeling like I "have to".

David G.

[David G.]

Hello Everybody!

I finally feel that I'm on a roll with this build. I find myself looking forward to working on this one and feeling a sense of accomplishment after each build session.

I love when that happens.

I got the booms as smoothed out as I feel they need to be, so it's time for some paint. I plan to use the gray primer as the belly color with Tamiya AS-29 Gray Green on top. Silly putty is best material I've found for this kind masking.

 

 

Except that now I have no way of setting this down until the paint is dry! Luckily, Tamiya lacquer dries in minutes. 

 

 

Masking the open cowling and exposed engine of left boom is a little more involved.

 

 

But the color mask is still the same.

 

 

The end results are satisfactory.

 

As always, thanks for taking the time to look and please feel free to comment.

David G.

[mustang1989]

Masking things like open cowlings and landing gear bays always proves to be a bit of a challenge but you've managed to simplify this quite a bit Dave. You're right too......after a while of sanding and filling it's tough to get any sense of accomplishment but things start to change after the paint is put on. This is turning out well bud...very well indeed. 

[David G.]

1 hour ago, mustang1989 said:

Masking things like open cowlings and landing gear bays always proves to be a bit of a challenge but you've managed to simplify this quite a bit Dave. You're right too......after a while of sanding and filling it's tough to get any sense of accomplishment but things start to change after the paint is put on. This is turning out well bud...very well indeed. 

Thank you very much Joe, I appreciate your comments.

David G.

[David G.]

Hello Everybody!

Here's the next update on the Northrop P-61 Black Widow.

With the plane assembled in "test fit" mode, it's time to assess the weight and balance issue. To balance the plane on its wheels takes a little more than 2 oz of lead shot. This is in addition to the weight I've already placed in the space forward of the cockpit.

 

 

The alternative provided in the kit is the clear plastic stick seen on the lower left. It goes toward the rear section of the fuselage and holds the plane's tail off the ground.

 

 

Taking the 2 ounces of lead shot needed to balance the plane and adding as much of it as I can to the nose cone, there is some left that won't fit. Even with this, the plane barely balances. Also, the nose is unsettlingly heavy. The plane will be part of a diorama so I don't plan on handling it much. but I have concerns over what effect that much weight may have on the front gear over the long term.

 

 

Given all that, the plastic stick is starting to look like the better of the two options. It's barely visible from a normal viewing angle.

 

 

Even straight-on, it's not too bad. Every model ever built is a compromise with reality, it's something we just have to accept sometimes. To me, the plastic stick is really no different than the strings that are often used to suspend model airplanes or a clear plastic rod used to hold up a space ship or hovercar. It's something I can live with.

 

So I guess that the weight problem is solved and everything is in balance...

On with the build!

David G.

[James2]

I have enjoyed following your build and looking forward to seeing it finished. I may have missed this, but have you considered connecting it to a small base? Perhaps something that represents the apron.  

[mustang1989]

Great idea in setting everything up, and I hear you on the landing gear concerns with the extra weight involved. Have you considered the white metal landing gear set by Scale Aircraft Conversions? 

Here's a link for you if you're interested Dave: Scale Aircraft Conversions Metal Landing Gear

[David G.]

22 hours ago, James2 said:

I have enjoyed following your build and looking forward to seeing it finished. I may have missed this, but have you considered connecting it to a small base? Perhaps something that represents the apron.  

Thank you most kindly. Though it will be the focal point of a diorama, I hadn't considered attaching it to the base. It's going to be displayed in a curio cabinet and I want to be able to dismantle and remove the diorama. Also I plan to add more to the diorama as I'm able, I already have a Tamiya 1:48 fuel truck to build and add later.

 

 

1 hour ago, mustang1989 said:

Great idea in setting everything up, and I hear you on the landing gear concerns with the extra weight involved. Have you considered the white metal landing gear set by Scale Aircraft Conversions? 

Here's a link for you if you're interested Dave: Scale Aircraft Conversions Metal Landing Gear

Thank you for your comment and the link Joe.

I did think about changing the nose gear to support the added weight but that's more effort and expense than I'm willing to go through for this kit. I only paid $12 for the kit on clearance at Michael's. It's hard for me to believe that this kit is still listed as high as $40 full retail! ? 

The web site does seem like a good resource, I'll certainly keep it in my queue.

That, and even with all the weight I could add, the plane still barely balanced. I could have put the larger nosecone on but I didn't like the way it looked on this version of the plane and I want to display the radar unit anyway. It's a nice added detail and goes well with airfield repair theme of the open cowling and exposed weapons.

 

It's like I said, every scale model is a compromise with reality. The plastic rod is a compromise I'm willing to make for the image I have in mind for this kit.

Thanks again,

-D-

[HJK]

Hi David, I've got another idea regarding the balance problems of your plane. Although I don't know whether it's possible or not but this is my thought.

You mentioned that you intend to use the plane in a diorama which means you will know where the front will be placed in the end. So you might be able to place a small metal plate in the ground below the wheel.

If  you're able to add a little magnet inside the front wheel it might be able to support the balance. Well, it's just an idea, you have to check whether this thought is rubbish ?.

Keep up your great work. Take care, Juergen

[magicmustang]

Instead of a clear plastic rod, why not add a lowered rear boarding ladder?  You could have the lower rear entrance hatch open, and the ladder extended to the tarmac (for a support brace).

 

Edited October 15 by magicmustang

[James2]

^^^^I like this^^^^