Buyer beware

[Mike 1017]

I bought this primer from Walmart because it is a bonding primer. When I did a test spray it came out so fast and heavy I could not stop it in time before it clogged up my spray booth filters Which I have since replaced. I had this Brainstorm that if I replaced the fan nozzle with a smaller one it would limit the amount of primer that would spray out.  WRONG!!! It made no difference.

Mike

[Ace-Garageguy]

Why people keep buying junk primer is beyond me. It's just a waste of money and time.

The primer questions have all been answered repeatedly already.

Stuff like this is for lawn furniture and mailboxes.

Edited August 14 by Ace-Garageguy

[StevenGuthmiller]

16 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Why people keep buying junk primer is beyond me. It's just a waste of money and time.

The primer questions have all been answered repeatedly already.

Stuff like this is for lawn furniture and mailboxes.

Right?

It's kind of funny, but one of the Facebook groups that I belong to has begun banning members for taking part in the "Rustoleum argument".

It's actually hilarious, and should be a little bit of an indication to people of what you're likely to encounter if you use the stuff.

Nobody's getting into disputes over any other brands of paint, so that should be some sort of indicator.

 

Personally, I don't give a rat's backside what paints people choose to use for their modeling purposes anymore, as it has begun to become a fool's errand to try to help, but it seems to me that the people who should be banned are the ones that continue to use Rustoleum and then continually post failure examples, acting as if they're surprised when it all goes to hell.

I'll never quite understand the mentality that if someone posts a question wondering why their Rustoleum paint job is giving them fits, we're not allowed to give them the obvious answer that their problem is most often the product itself, for fear of being removed from the group.

I guess it's more desirable in some instances to maintain the peace than it is to try to give sound and relevant advice.

Go figure.

 

 

 

Steve 

 

[thatz4u]

15 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Right?

It's kind of funny, but one of the Facebook groups that I belong to has begun banning members for taking part in the "Rustoleum argument".

It's actually hilarious, and should be a little bit of an indication to people of what you're likely to encounter if you use the stuff.

Nobody's getting into disputes over any other brands of paint, so that should be some sort of indicator.

 

Personally, I don't give a rat's backside what paints people choose to use for their modeling purposes anymore, as it has begun to become a fool's errand to try to help, but it seems to me that the people who should be banned are the ones that continue to use Rustoleum and then continually post failure examples, acting as if they're surprised when it all goes to hell.

I'll never quite understand the mentality that if someone posts a question wondering why their Rustoleum paint job is giving them fits, we're not allowed to give them the obvious answer that their problem is most often the product itself, for fear of being removed from the group.

I guess it's more desirable in some instances to maintain the peace than it is to try to give sound and relevant advice.

Go figure.

 

 

 

Steve 

 

I wouldn't take this brand of paint as a gift...

[StevenGuthmiller]

18 minutes ago, thatz4u said:

I wouldn't take this brand of paint as a gift...

I certainly wouldn't pay for it!

 

Although, I will confess that I have a number of the "tins" of Rustoleum enamel that I will occasionally mix myself for airbrushing chassis parts, etc, but under no circumstance would I EVER buy it again in a spray can.

I've thrown more of it away than I've ever used!

 

 

 

Steve

[rattle can man]

I have to agree. Rustoleum spray cans are not good for much in model building. I have a few cans, but when they are used up or no longer spray I'm dome with them.

[Ace-Garageguy]

47 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

...I guess it's more desirable in some instances to maintain the peace than it is to try to give sound and relevant advice.

Sadly, that is largely SOP for many social media sites, and anywhere where comments are allowed.

The truth isn't popular in a lot of circles.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I all fairness, I have to say I've turned out a few nice paint jobs with the cheapest rattlecan paint that was out there.

One in particular, an exceptionally bilious shade of medium green enamel, I put on a '53 Ford pickup that was supposed to look like a cheapo Earl Scheib job. Anybody who remembers Scheib and other any-car-any-color-$29.95 shops should recall that most of the "standard" colors they stocked were just flat awful.

I did the prep and primer as usual, with Duplicolor sandable red, and did enough testing with the cheap rattlecan stuff to 1) be certain it wouldn't craze, and 2) that I could maintain sufficient control of the stuff to flow it out nice.

The result, after very minor sanding and polishing to remove the inevitable dust nibs you get in slow-drying enamel, was exactly what I wanted. Smooth but not real glossy, and an ugly color.

But use garbage like that regularly? No way in jello.  

[Bugatti Fan]

Rustoleum is probably not a bad paint provided you use it for what it's primary market is intended for, general domestic non modelling applications.

You wouldn't use creosote or wood preservative on a scale model fence. So why try using DIY spray paint on a model?

Horses for courses.   Buy the right thing for the job and save yourself the frustration.

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Sadly, that is largely SOP for many social media sites, and anywhere where comments are allowed.

The truth isn't popular in a lot of circles.

The Rustoleum faithful really get their panties in a bunch when you dis their paint, so it follows that there’s going to be some heated back and forth.

Funny part is, it’s almost a 100% guaranteed that even before you begin reading the thread or the comments, that the paint used for the screwed up paint job was Rustoleum.

As soon as the suggestion is made to use a different product, immediately you begin getting the “there is no bad paint, only bad painters” argument.

Funny, but they’re so immersed in their “correctness”, that it’s more desirable to attack the individual than it is to admit that the product that they’re using is trash.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Edited August 14 by StevenGuthmiller

[mrm]

To be honest, I had Tamiya paint give me nightmares on more than one occasion and have achieved really nice results with "wallmart-garden-furniture-paint". My Good Guys Hot Rod of the Year tribute model was painted with two different Rustoleum colors and it turned out really nice. And so did my "Change of Pace '29". Is Rustoleum ever going to be my go-to model paint? No way! It is not the easiest to work with, but that doesn't mean it can't be used.

I hate the Tamiya white primer with a passion. I think it's awful. Their copper metallic has given me hell and the Maroon color on my "Delivery Deuce" was just plain pain to work with for some reason. But I would still take Tamiya over any other hobby paint and their grey primers are so incredibly good that I would often shoot them straight from the can. And they handle almost anything on top. 

The point I am trying to make is that different things work differently for different people. I find people from the"Rustoleum Cult" described above equally ridiculous as the people on the other extreme end who are determined to convince the world that Rustoleum paint should never be used on models. 

    Now, the issue with people not being able to accept opinions different than theirs is a whole different beer. I got banned from a group for giving an honest unbiased review of an expensive diecast model, just because  some people could not accept the fact that they spend a lot of money on a mediocre model. And the dumbest thing was that I was reviewing my own model, which means I was in the same boat as them.

    It's pride and ego I guess and some people can never accept, God forbid admit, that they have made the wrong decision. Overall I think some people are taking their hobbies way too seriously, forgetting that after all we are just playing with toy cars.  

Edited August 15 by mrm
typos

[Scott Eriksen]

I just shot my mailbox with Rustoleum,,came out great! 😛

[stavanzer]

1 hour ago, mrm said:

    It's pride and ego I guess and some people can never accept, God forbid admit, that they have made the wrong decision. Overall I think some people are taking their hobbies way too seriously, forgetting that after all we are just playing with toy cars.  

Ohhh, Now You've Done it! "Toy Cars" Indeed!!! (sarc)

Yes, they are toy cars. Invented about 65 years ago, as something to give to kids to keep them occupied while Dad shops for a new car. Then, the whole business grew, and here we are, still playing with Toy Cars. Remember AMT stands for Aluminum Model Toys, after all.

Not that, there's anything wrong with that. Now Guys like Wingrove, and some of the Builders here? Way beyond. They are "Miniature Craftsman" and occupy a whole different level of the hobby. But, in the end, it is a hobby. For a couple hundred folks in the USA it might be a job. For the rest of us? A Pastime. An Interest. For a few, a whole world. But, not much more.

Folks who get shirty about the Hobby, i.e. "I'm NOT playing with Toys!!", are defensive about the wrong things.

[Bugatti Fan]

Much as we like to big up our passion, manufacturers with the exception of a small few generally historically announce their new products at Toy Fairs.

Only enthusiasts like us aspire to build models to a high standard and bother to partake in forums like this. From a commercial point of view, manufacturers display at toy fairs to show their products to as many sales outlets as possible whether shop or on line retailers. The reality is that although manufacturers are improving the quality and accuracy of model kits all the time to satisfy model making nerds like us, the vast majority of kits sold just get stuck together and unpainted in many cases,  parked on a shelf and probably dumped when layers in dust accrue on them and bits fall off as the passing interest fades.

Edited August 15 by Bugatti Fan

[Reegs]

9 hours ago, Scott Eriksen said:

I just shot my mailbox with Rustoleum,,came out great! 😛

I shot my mailbox with a .38 and now the mail gets wet when it rains.

[slusher]

Some might get the rustoleum idea from Testors. Some make mistakes and are always going to need advice. Let’s always help who needs no matter if it’s the same mistake we have been so familiar with..

[bobss396]

I'm down to 3 or 4 primers that I really swear by, none are cheap. And not everyone has the same definition of a "good" paint job. 

[Mike 1017]

20 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Why people keep buying junk primer is beyond me. It's just a waste of money and time.

The primer questions have all been answered repeatedly already.

Stuff like this is for lawn furniture and mailboxes.

People like me like that are curious and love experimenting with new things will never be trapped in a status quo world.

 

21 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Why people keep buying junk primer is beyond me. It's just a waste of money and time.

The primer questions have all been answered repeatedly already.

Stuff like this is for lawn furniture and mailboxes.

 

[Mike 1017]

21 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Why people keep buying junk primer is beyond me. It's just a waste of money and time.

The primer questions have all been answered repeatedly already.

Stuff like this is for lawn furniture and mailboxes.

People like me who are curious and love to experiment with different things. Will never live in a Status Quo world. If I were to use this primer on anything else, I would have to stand at least 3ft away as not to bombard with this primer. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, Mike 1017 said:

People like me who are curious and love to experiment with different things. Will never live in a Status Quo world. If I were to use this primer on anything else, I would have to stand at least 3ft away as not to bombard with this primer. 

Experimenting is fine. I do it all the time.

But reinventing the wheel is just not necessary.

If you want to "experiment", your time would be more wisely spent developing techniques to get the best possible results from proven products that accomplished modelers have been using successfully...like Duplicolor primers.

 

Edited August 15 by Ace-Garageguy

[Mike 1017]

3 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Experimenting is fine. I do it all the time.

But reinventing the wheel is just not necessary.

 

[bobthehobbyguy]

Experimentation is a good thing. However when you are using a product for something that's its not intended for you are asking for trouble. If you are using paints made for models if the formula is changed it will still be compatible to the plastic. You can't say the same thing for Restoleum or any other similar paint.

For most builders time and money are a limited commodity.  New kits are expensive. Second is how you want to spend your time. Do you want to get something done or spend time fixing a paint issue because of using the wrong products.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

10 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

...For most builders time and money are a limited commodity. 

I think the push to use big-box DIY paint is in the pursuit of "saving money", believing there's some magic perfect primer hiding in plain sight, that will cost a fraction of what made-for-hobby-use (Tamiya etc.) or real-cars (Duplicolor etc.) do, and spit out perfect no-effort results every time.

Most of these clowns don't seem to be able to grasp that different products developed for different things work entirely differently.

You wouldn't paint the interior walls of your house with an industrial urethane made for heavy equipment, or a toughened epoxy coating made for machinery in a highly-abrasive environment.

You wouldn't paint a real car with latex or oil-based house paint and expect anything but a pathetic mess.

Yet they'll insist that paint products made for full-scale DIY projects, that put the emphasis on adhesion to anything and fast coverage, is appropriate for small finely-detailed scale models.

Common sense just isn't that common, unfortunately.

 

Edited August 16 by Ace-Garageguy

[stitchdup]

8 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I think the push to use big-box DIY paint is in the pursuit of "saving money", believing there's some magic perfect primer hiding in plain sight, that will cost a fraction of what made-for-hobby-use (Tamiya etc.) or real-cars (Duplicolor etc.) do.

Most of these clowns don't seem to be able to grasp that different products developed for different things work entirely differently.

You wouldn't paint the interior walls of your house with an industrial urethane made for heavy equipment, or a toughened epoxy coating made for machinery in a highly-abrasive environment.

You wouldn't paint a real car with latex or oil-based house paint and expect anything but a pathetic mess.

Yet they'll insist that paint products made for full-scale DIY projects, that put the emphasis on adhesion to anything and fast coverage, is appropriate for small finely-detailed scale models.

Common sense just isn't that common, unfortunately.

 

i wouldn't use latex paint on anything, it took me 3 weeks to strip my bathroom cos of that trash and its only 2m x 2.5m. it is a little bigger now though cos nobody had ever stripped it before, lol

[StevenGuthmiller]

16 hours ago, mrm said:

To be honest, I had Tamiya paint give me nightmares on more than one occasion and have achieved really nice results with "wallmart-garden-furniture-paint". My Good Guys Hot Rod of the Year tribute model was painted with two different Rustoleum colors and it turned out really nice. And so did my "Change of Pace '29". Is Rustoleum ever going to be my go-to model paint? No way! It is not the easiest to work with, but that doesn't mean it can't be used.

The occasional failure can be expected with any paint.

That's a given.

I've even had a few issues with MCW paint, but those instances have been extremely limited.

 

The problem with products such as Rustoleum is not so much that the product itself is bad, but that it's entirely user unfriendly for a number of reasons, and especially in the case of inexperienced modelers, those reasons can be a major problem.

The fact that it's an enamel, with highly troublesome protocols for re-coat seems to be the largest difficulty. 

Nine times out of ten, the issue that I see is the builder missing that microscopic re-coat window and winding up with a wrinkled mess with the second coat, or a coat of clear over the color.

Then of course there's the delivery system which is similar to blowing the paint through a garden hose!

Couple that with the fact that the cans and nozzles appear to be designed for one time use, as the vast majority of Rustoleum spray cans that I've used throughout my career wound up in the trash after one or two uses after they plugged up and became unusable with half of the product still remaining.

With all of that, what irks me more than anything is the fact that within some of the Facebook groups, the Rustoleum aficionados have essentially won the argument, due to the fact that dissent has basically become inadmissible, so any young or inexperienced builders are left to the wolves with the idea that if they just keep trying, they'll eventually be successful.

That may or may not be the case, but I think we're all aware that a different direction is probably more practical. 

 

 

 

Steve