Small Part Attaching

[TransAmMike]

Just looking for advise for gluing small parts to a painted body that cannot be pinned.  How do you glue them on without seeing glue, glue seeping out or smearing the glue if the part moves before being in the right spot?    My kinda shaky 78 year old hands have become a problem doing this.

Lets here it from the experts😀

[rattle can man]

I've heard of using clear paint to attach photo-etch parts. I've never tried it. At least it wouldn't damage the paint like glue could (provided the clear is compatible with your finish) or be as noticeable as a glue blob/ mark.

[Brutalform]

For me, I never pin parts that are large enough to be pinned, like door mirrors, or door handles. But what I have been using for a long time, is watch crystal cement. I never have had a part fall off using it. You don’t need much, so it wont seep out, and as soon as the part touches the car with the cement, it stays put. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

I use 2 part epoxy.

I mix a little and put a dab on the body with a tooth pick.

Then I let it set up for ten minutes or so to tack up.

Once it has tacked up sufficiently, you can stick the part onto the glue and it will pretty much stay where you put it, yet there will still be enough viscosity where it can be positioned if needed.

That said, I pretty much pin all of those parts now.

It’s just a lot easier and more secure.

Oh, and by the way, always apply the glue to the surface that the part is to be glued to and not the part.

That way, if you happen to slip and drop the part, you’re not going to wind up with a glue smear down the side of a quarter panel.

 

Steve

Edited March 12 by StevenGuthmiller

[slusher]

I used Testors if too small I use clear coat…

[bobss396]

I have pinned some tiny parts using .010" wire and a #80 (.013") drill. These days I try to avoid this.

Once you select the area, try this. Mask off the area with tape, so only a very small window exists. Put down a minute dab of whatever you use, put the part on. Remove the tape later.

I do have to look for watch crystal cement. 5 minute epoxy does allow time to position a part, so does clear paint, like Tamiya X22.

[peteski]

10 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I mix a little and put a dab on the body with a tooth pick.

Then I let it set up for ten minutes or so to tack up.

Once it has tacked up sufficiently, you can stick the part onto the glue and it will pretty much stay where you put it, yet there will still be enough viscosity where it can be positioned if needed.

10 minutes? You are the likely not using 5-minute epoxy because in my experience after 10 minutes while not fully hardened it is hardened enough not to adhere to anything.

[NOBLNG]

13 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Just looking for advise for gluing small parts to a painted body that cannot be pinned.  How do you glue them on without seeing glue, glue seeping out or smearing the glue if the part moves before being in the right spot?    My kinda shaky 78 year old hands have become a problem doing this.

Lets here it from the experts😀

The suggestion for epoxy or watch crystal cement sound good for a painted surface. I try to pin tiny parts before painting….if I remember to. You could practice all these techniques by attaching bits of sprue to a scrap body or something to see which works best for you.

Edited March 12 by NOBLNG

[Rick L]

2 hours ago, peteski said:

10 minutes? You are the likely not using 5-minute epoxy because in my experience after 10 minutes while not fully hardened it is hardened enough not to adhere to anything.

He said two part epoxy. He did not specify its curing time. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, peteski said:

10 minutes? You are the likely not using 5-minute epoxy because in my experience after 10 minutes while not fully hardened it is hardened enough not to adhere to anything.

The epoxy that I use is a "5 minute" epoxy, but it takes longer than that to tack up to the point of being able to hold the part without slipping.

As a matter of fact, I'll often let it sit for longer.  (maybe 15 minutes)

 

I'll gauge progress by checking the viscosity of the glue that's left on the card, and when it feels right, I'll install the part.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[TransAmMike]

Wow Guys', I appreciate all the good suggestions. I do like the masking idea. Gotta think about all this.   Thanks😃

[peteski]

4 hours ago, Rick L said:

He said two part epoxy. He did not specify its curing time. 

I fully expected you to chime in.  You're such a wonderful guy, I don't know how I would survive without your friendly and helpful input.  I am also complete aware that Steve did not mention curing time.

My post was directed at Steve G. mainly because from his prolific responses in the recent epoxy thread I knew he uses 5-minute epoxy in his modeling.  It also seems illogical to use a longer setting epoxy (I think 15 minute stuff is the next step after 5 minutes) when attaching an emblem.  Call me crazy, but that's my story and I'm (after 10 minutes) stickiness with it. 😜

[peteski]

3 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

The epoxy that I use is a "5 minute" epoxy, but it takes longer than that to tack up to the point of being able to hold the part without slipping.

As a matter of fact, I'll often let it sit for longer.  (maybe 15 minutes)

Interesting.  That is not my experience with 5-minute epoxies (I'm currently using Devcon brand, but I have used multiple brands in the past, but not JB Weld).  While it does take longer to set in cooler ambient temperature (my workshop is currently at 59 deg. F) even then, after 10 minutes mine would be gelled enough not to be able to push the emblem into it.

Anyway, forget I mentioned it. If someone waits too long, at least in that stage the gelled epoxy can be easily peeled off the surface of the model for another attempt.

[NOBLNG]

With the Permatex 5 minute epoxy that I use, I would expect that I could wait no longer than 3 minutes +/- before it would be too “set” for any part to be added. If I was to use this method, I would mix up a test batch, spread a thin line out and try every 15 or 30 seconds (assuming 5min epoxy) to stick a piece of sprue to it. Record the results so you know what wait time is optimal. I’m pretty sure Steve must have done this?

Edited March 12 by NOBLNG

[StevenGuthmiller]

21 minutes ago, peteski said:

Anyway, forget I mentioned it. If someone waits too long, at least in that stage the gelled epoxy can be easily peeled off the surface of the model for another attempt.

Well, as I said, with this particular product, (and I use it all of time) it definitely takes longer than 5 minutes to begin to tack up.

I'll usually set the timer on my phone for somewhere around 10 minutes after applying the glue and then leave the shop.

After that initial time, I'll return and periodically check the glue remaining on the card until it feels right.

 

Strangely enough, in most cases, the glue on the card will actually set quicker than the glue on the parts, so I generally have additional time.

I suppose the quicker set time on the card is probably due to absorption as I just use pieces of regular cardboard.

 

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

15 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

Record the results so you know what wait time is optimal. I’m pretty sure Steve must have done this?

Sort of, but not nearly as scientifically.

I just go by past experience and feel.

 

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

56 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Strangely enough, in most cases, the glue on the card will actually set quicker than the glue on the parts, so I generally have additional time.

I suppose the quicker set time on the card is probably due to absorption as I just use pieces of regular cardboard.

2-part epoxy adhesive hardens (polymerizes) due to a chemical reaction between part A and B, regardless of whether it sits on a non-porous surface or gets partially absorbed into the cardboard.  For mixing epoxy I use a small piece of plastic with masking tape placed on top.  Masking tape surface good for mixing epoxy and I can easily remove discard and replace the masking when the remains of the glue harden.

[rattle can man]

I've been using old cd cases for mixing palettes. 

[TransAmMike]

Ha, in my case I'm not sure I have the patience to wait for the epoxy to do it's thing before installing the part 🙄

[Brutalform]

2 hours ago, peteski said:

2-part epoxy adhesive hardens (polymerizes) due to a chemical reaction between part A and B, regardless of whether it sits on a non-porous surface or gets partially absorbed into the cardboard.  For mixing epoxy I use a small piece of plastic with masking tape placed on top.  Masking tape surface good for mixing epoxy and I can easily remove discard and replace the masking when the remains of the glue harden.

I have used masking tape for mixing epoxy, and also for putting a dab of paint on. But now, since the mailman brings some kind of placard, or cardboard advertisement daily, I just cut those into strips, and mix on those. They would just be thrown in the trash anyway, so I put them to good use. Also saves tape. 

[Brutalform]

3 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Well, as I said, with this particular product, (and I use it all of time) it definitely takes longer than 5 minutes to begin to tack up.

I'll usually set the timer on my phone for somewhere around 10 minutes after applying the glue and then leave the shop.

After that initial time, I'll return and periodically check the glue remaining on the card until it feels right.

 

Strangely enough, in most cases, the glue on the card will actually set quicker than the glue on the parts, so I generally have additional time.

I suppose the quicker set time on the card is probably due to absorption as I just use pieces of regular cardboard.

 

 

 

Steve

Are you using regular ole cardboard? Or the thin cardboard with a glossy sheen on it? 

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Brutalform said:

Are you using regular ole cardboard? Or the thin cardboard with a glossy sheen on it? 

Usually it’s a thinner cardboard, sometimes with a coating on it, not your typical corrugated cardboard.

But I don’t discriminate.

Whatever I happen to have laying around the shop.

 

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

4 hours ago, peteski said:

2-part epoxy adhesive hardens (polymerizes) due to a chemical reaction between part A and B, regardless of whether it sits on a non-porous surface or gets partially absorbed into the cardboard.  For mixing epoxy I use a small piece of plastic with masking tape placed on top.  Masking tape surface good for mixing epoxy and I can easily remove discard and replace the masking when the remains of the glue harden.

Well, whatever the reason, it seems to set faster on the card than on the parts.

 

 

 

Steve

[Bills72sj]

I have taken to laying a 6" strip of 2" wide masking tape just to my right directly onto my bench. I will mix Testors red tube and Plastrut Bondene to make the consistency thinner. This combo is used for styrene to styrene connections. Learning from Steve, I have increasingly been using 2-part 5 min epoxy. It works on many different materials and does not fog shiny surfaces (Though it is a little stinky). I use Testors "window maker" (i.e. Canopy Glue) on any clear parts as the wicking action works well to fill gaps. Any glue I do use, is dabbed on the desk tape and applied via toothpick. To your original inquiry, on parts like photetch, I use Future floor polish. It wicks well and is completely transparent. It has no solvent capability and will never harm any finish. And if you screw it up, a cotton swap in household ammonia makes it disappear allowing do overs. On particularly finicky things like Freightliner COE mirrors, I used Testors/Plastruct for bonding strength then wick in window maker to smooth the joints and add in additional slightly flexible strength. A little Molotow returned the various joints to chrome. I had to build 4 of those finicky boogers in less than a week. They are still holding up great.

[WillyBilly]

I take the point of an X-acto knife and scrape a small line in the paint trying to make a shallow pocket and expose bare plastic for the part to rest where I want to attach a part. I allow the glue to touch the part to essentially get a film of glue on the part. Then with a headset, and tweezers, I attach the part on the area I scratched off holding it until it sets. Usually about 5 to 10 seconds. I have had good luck with this method. The trick is to use very little glue. You can use superglue too, but there is not time to position. I prefer model glue just to give you a little time. I scratched the paint on every single one of these models to get the part to stick. I had gotten sick of gluing it to the paint, only to have it fall off, or pop off when the wind blows.