Paint help

[Maurice Henderson]

Good Morning Forum 

I'm currently building a Sox & Martin GTX..I've painted this model 3 times and when I tape it, it pulls the paint off down to the primer in big patches..I use the white Tamiya Fine Surface primer and TS-26 Pure White paint..I've washed the model, applied primer in 4 coats, 4 coats of TS-26 for the 3rd time it stil is coming  off in patches on the passenger side..After each primer & paint I let the model dry for 4- 5 days...When applying primer I wait 20 minutes before applying the next coat..I do the same procedure for TS-26...If anybody has had this problem and solve it, let me know what I'm doing wrong..I don't want do a 4th or 5th attempt on getting it right.

[Shark]

Do you wet sand the primer base before taping and color coating. I frequently use the same procedure you mentioned, except a light sanding to give the paint some bite.

[Rick L]

Sounds like a tape problem to me. Some masking tapes are too aggressive. Especially when left on too long. Tamiya tape burnished on the edges works very well.

[StevenGuthmiller]

Obvious adhesion problem, but I don't use Tamiya paints or primers, so I couldn't give you any insight as to what the issue might be.

I will say that I've been hearing of a lot more problems with Tamiya paint as of late, so take that for what you will.

Maybe formula changes?

I will also say that if the color coat is not "biting" into the primer, it's not doing what it should be doing as a "lacquer".

Sanding the primer shouldn't be necessary if the paints are acting as they should.

 

I use Duplicolor primer, followed by various automotive type lacquers.

Sometimes I may sand the final primer coat should it need it, but I often do not, and I never have any sort of adhesion problems because the lacquers that I'm using have sufficient solvent strength to etch themselves into the primer giving a sufficient bond.

That said, Rick is also correct that many masking tapes are far too aggressive and have a tendency to pull up paint when removed.

Use a lighter tack tape to avoid this.

Not only will Tamiya tape be less aggressive and less likely to cause issues, but it will give you a much cleaner edge for two toning when applied properly.

 

 

 

Steve

[stitchdup]

you need to give the whole body a decent sanding to key it. i like used 600 sanding sponges (sticks or pads) but anything between 600 and 1000 will do. the tamiya paints like to have a keyed surface. another option is an abrasive household cleaner such as cif or comet and you can get into the edges better. are you using tamiya tape? i've found its got poor so i'm using frog stain block tape. less sticky but wont mark the paint like tamiya does now. also you might be leaving too long between primer coats, at 20 mins your spraying onto a drier surface so it wont dry properly. its sealing it as seperate layers while if you build it up with a few quick dust coats building up to heavier coats to start on a sanded body it will dry as one layer and be less likely to pull off. this is a bad pic but this was given a 600 sand, slow build up of primer then sat overnight in a warm window, then after a full 24 hours i did the same process with the paint, let sit for ten mins ish and got 2 light coats of clear. it then sat 3 days and got a 2500 sand all over and i repeated the process with the clear. ignore thecouple of runs, its not been polished yet

 

[Maurice Henderson]

17 hours ago, Maurice Henderson said:

Good Morning Forum 

I'm currently building a Sox & Martin GTX..I've painted this model 3 times and when I tape it, it pulls the paint off down to the primer in big patches..I use the white Tamiya Fine Surface primer and TS-26 Pure White paint..I've washed the model, applied primer in 4 coats, 4 coats of TS-26 for the 3rd time it stil is coming  off in patches on the passenger side..After each primer & paint I let the model dry for 4- 5 days...When applying primer I wait 20 minutes before applying the next coat..I do the same procedure for TS-26...If anybody has had this problem and solve it, let me know what I'm doing wrong..I don't want do a 4th or 5th attempt on getting it right.

Thank you gentleman for your wisdom..I've done all of the thing you guys suggest..Wet sanding, changing the tape including Tamiya tape and it happened a 3rd time..I will try these methods again and hope I'm successful because painting those Sox and Martin aren't the problem it's white paint on the Quarterpanels before applying the red paint.

[bobss396]

I use Tamiya tape and get it off as soon as possible. I take care to pull it off slowly. 

[TECHMAN]

1 hour ago, bobss396 said:

I use Tamiya tape and get it off as soon as possible. I take care to pull it off slowly. 

DITTO!!!  

I use the Tamiya products right along with each other (and knock on wood) have never run into any of the problems that you are having.....  Also, I never leave the tape on longer than 30-45 minutes so that it doesn't "grow" onto the model.   Hope you get your problem solved, the Sox & Martin cars make great additions to anyone's collection.

DJ

[Beans]

This may sound crazy but doing something over and over using the same products and getting the same results isn't getting you anywhere.  I know the love for Tamiya paint is strong and it works over 90% of the time but other than a ritual of sanding and taping the change may need to come in the form of a different paint.  

Your paint isn't sticking to the primer.  Sanding hasn't worked.  Changing tape hasn't worked.  Maybe change paint....

[Maurice Henderson]

Beans, thank you for comments and advice...This is the 1st TIME this has ever to any of my builds..I've used lacquer, acrylics, enamels and some paints that don't exist anymore..I bought some new Tamiya tape today, so I see how it goes..I gone give the Sox & Martin build some to think what it wants to do.

[Dave G.]

For model lacquers in general I like Mr Surfacer 1000 primer. It looks smooth as a babies butt, but being 1000 it has a little tooth for the paint to grip. However, that said, I don't use TS paints, but rather the LP thinned with Mr Leveling thinner. Or X series acrylic, also thinned with Mr Leveling thinner. I'm assuming the MLT plays well with Mr Surfacer and help the paints get a bite.

The latter method has passed my pull tests using full strength blue painters tape, fwiw. I'm not gentle in my testing, I just rip the tape off. That's the nature of the testing, push the limit.

Same for Createx over Stynylrez primers. Course it helps that my Createx colors all get 4030 poly intercoat mixed in, which is designed to give better bond and harder shell to Createx paints.

However, the tape I use on the models is a low tack Fine Line tape. Just if it can pass the blue painters tape test, surely the low tack won't pull the color coat. Or de tacking the blue tape won't either. Sometimes I do a layout, where I cut stencils with a razor in blue tape, and just de tack that on the back of my hand. Anyway, 0 paint lifts. And really no concerns since I've already tested the methods on kit plastic.

[bobss396]

I had a masked off part yesterday... Vallejo black primer over Duplicolor. I got side tracked, got back to it maybe 5 hours later.

The Tamiya tape, I pulled it off real slowly. But it came off with no drama.

[Beans]

8 hours ago, Maurice Henderson said:

Beans, thank you for comments and advice...This is the 1st TIME this has ever to any of my builds..I've used lacquer, acrylics, enamels and some paints that don't exist anymore..I bought some new Tamiya tape today, so I see how it goes..I gone give the Sox & Martin build some to think what it wants to do.

I wish you the best of luck.  Hoping it works out for you.  For whatever reason it just seems that the Taimya white you are using has a unwarranted dislike for this model.

[Maurice Henderson]

Beans, you are so correct..This TS-26 Pure White has been Pure Hell. I also bought some brand new Tamiya tape.

[stitchdup]

5 minutes ago, Maurice Henderson said:

Beans, you are so correct..This TS-26 Pure White has been Pure Hell. I also bought some brand new Tamiya tape.

have you considered using white duplicolour primer? it matches tamiya pure white once its cleared and if you let it sit an extra 24 hours to gas out can be used with tamiya paints without drama.

[Maurice Henderson]

No, but I'll try anything right now

[stitchdup]

4 minutes ago, Maurice Henderson said:

No, but I'll try anything right now

i did this with white primer and used tamiya scooby blue for the fade. Might not be the best example cos i broke evey paint rule with this one. every paint was a different brand and this was just the base