Enough of reissues.....

[baycolony]

Just wondering if anyone else feels the way I do about the domestic side of this hobby.  It seems that the model companies who produce primarily domestic cars (AMT, Revell, Atlantis, etc) have been more interested in reissuing old kits (some with new decals or parts), than producing newly tooled kits.  Japanese manufacturers are constantly issuing many different newly tooled kits, and new military kits are constantly being produced.  These are highly detailed and many are now multi-media examples. I know there have been some recent new tools but they are certainly few and far between.  You would think that a C7 ZRI Corvette or the most recent GT500 Mustang would have been high on the list of these domestic producers but alas we still wait as old kits are reissued.  Food for thought.

Edited 23 hours ago by baycolony

[Vettegasser]

Some of these old kits weren’t that good the first time around. But a lot of them are a welcomed comeback.   I did like seeing they’re finally doing a B model Mack. That’s gonna be cool 

[OldSkool81]

Well first of all, I'm greatfull about all those reissues, because as a kid, I only got model kits on Christmas and my birthday, and they weren't always those I wanted. So I now have a chance to get everything I missed on, and oftentimes with corrected flaws and more decals, such as gauges and badges, that I would've gone nuts just to have those back in the day! But that being said, back in the 80s and 90s, new kits never stopped coming it seemed. I DO understand how the hobby might not be as popular now as it was then, and that tooling up new kits is extremely cost prohibitive. However, there are some M.I.A. kits that should've existed, but don't. The Jeep Cherokee XJ comes to mind, as it's almost part of Americana... So I know how you feel, but the reality is fewer people buys kits, and it costs more to develop new ones, and return on investment is closely calculated, or should I say, "speculated".... Doesn't mean they always get it right though!!!!

[Can-Con]

1 hour ago, baycolony said:

Just wondering if anyone else feels the way I do about the domestic side of this hobby.  It seems that the model companies who produce primarily domestic cars (AMT, Revell, Atlantis, etc) have been more interested in reissuing old kits (some with new decals or parts), than producing newly tooled kits.  Japanese manufacturers are constantly issuing many different newly tooled kits, and new military kits are constantly being produced.  These are highly detailed and many are now multi-media examples. I know there have been some recent new tools but they are certainly few and far between.  You would think that a C7 ZRI Corvette or the most recent GT500 Mustang would have been high on the list of these domestic producers but alas we still wait as old kits are reissued.  Food for thought.

All the kits a company has are "inventory". They need to sell this "inventory" in able to have funds to put toward developing "newly tooled inventory" and/or stay in business. 

Every model company re-releases their older kits from time to time, even the Japanese companies. There is NO model company that has been in business for any length of time that exclusively releases only "newly tooled" kits. 

To that point, how many times would a "newly tooled" kit be re-released before it's not considered "newly tooled" any longer? 

When the Lindberg '40 Ford coupe was released in '91, it was the first time that kit was ever on the market in spite of the tooling actually being cut by PSM [Palmer] back in the late '60s or very early '70s.  Would that be considered a "new tool" even though it was actually tooled 2 decades earlier?

Edited 22 hours ago by Can-Con

[Justin Porter]

For the most part, the limiting factor on the domestic kit companies is that they have a much more niche product than the global companies like Tamiya. Tamiya can count on selling a new tool kit like their Porsche 911GT3 RS or their McLaren Senna in every corner of the globe. Further from that, scale modeling is a much more popular pastime globally than it is in the USA. Not that it's unpopular in the USA, but it's not nearly as common a hobby as golfing or bowling or fantasy football leagues or so on. 

What this does mean is that the international companies aren't rolling the dice nearly as much with new kits of their subject matter as the domestic companies are. This is partly why Revell - an international company with a domestic face - has placed greater importance on new tooling of international subjects with instantly recognizable marketing tie-ins like the Aston Martin DB5. 

There's also a certain amount of market ambivalence that's hard to overcome. Domestic car builders, in large numbers, aren't nearly as fussy over details or accuracy or even fit as even their import building cousins are, let alone military builders. Typically, domestic car builders place higher importance on low price point and included options than anything else. One need look no further than the frothing glee you'll see in domestic leaning car modeling social media groups when Ollies rolls out their latest batch of Monogram reissues "because they're so cheap" even if they're kits that are known trash like the "Rampage" '69 Camaro or the ex-Revell Travolta Firebird Fever custom. 

If reissues of kits that were never very good are what the bulk of the market wants, as long as the price is low and there's some extra decals and wheels in the box, then that's what the manufacturers will make.

[stavanzer]

23 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

One need look no further than the frothing glee you'll see in domestic leaning car modeling social media groups when Ollies rolls out their latest batch

I'd have a whole lot more "Frothing Glee" if I lived 700 miles closer to an Ollies!

[iBorg]

There's a lot of ground covered in this simple statement of too many reissues. Currently the US has the following domestic manufacturers in alphabetic order, Atlantis, Moebius, Revell/Monogram and Round2 (AMT, Hawk, Lindberg and MPC)and Salvinos JR . The market also has casual buyers and "serious" modelers. 

Atlantis's business model is resissues typically of kits that have not been available for twenty or more years. A lot of what has been reissued was last available in the late 1960s or early 1970s. A lot of what they offer is available to purchase at a buildable price for the first time in many builder's model building years. 

Moebius has made some great new kits. Their choice of kits is a bit eclectic. For example who ever expected a kit of a Hudson? Even the most optimistic couldn't hope for such a great kit. Everything they've offered has been exceptional. Maybe not my niche but excellent kits. 

Revell/Monogram has an interesting mix of new kits and reissues. In general their new kits such as their 1971 Mustang have been exceptional. They have some kits that never seem to go out of production. They do reissue kits a bit too often.

Round2 seems to constantly reissue kits (about 90% of their offerings) with their new kits being exceptional although some of their new kits causing me to scratch my head. I don't understand the MPC Duster when they had a great newer engineered Duster in their inventory. You literally have to go to the fifth page of their website to find a kit designed in the last three years. A clone body is a reissue. Most of their reissues have been available in the last 10 years. I do wish they'd pull out more of their kits from the early 70's such as their race cars. I do think those have been reasonable sellers. Some of their reissues are niche cars of a building niche that I just can't see selling in reasonable numbers such as the Scorpion and Roamin' Chariot. I do wish they would reissue the Harrell Camaro instead of the Funny Hugger II.

Salvinos is an interesting company that hopefully will serve as a model to Atlantis. They got their business started by reissuing the old Monogram stock cars. As a show vendor I can tell you the Monogram kits are an almost impossible sell in my region. They did well enough they could justify making new molds like their Chryslers. They expanded that with their pavement modifieds and Indy cars. They've controlled their access which may be a contributing factor. They are a true success story.

Let's talk about Ollie's models. They are not selling kits to be built but to be opened. They are the equivalent of Palmer kits in the 1970s. Cheap enough to give to a child and not worry about build quality. Ollies is worried more about price point than quality. 

Too many reissues? Not enough time.

[stavanzer]

7 minutes ago, iBorg said:

Let's talk about Ollie's models. They are not selling kits to be built but to be opened. They are the equivalent of Palmer kits in the 1970s. Cheap enough to give to a child and not worry about build quality. Ollies is worried more about price point than quality. 

I am the Target Market for Ollie's kits.

[Volzfan59]

I get the point concerning reissues. For me, as someone that returned to the hobby a few years ago, I love the reissues. 

[Mark C.]

Are there a lot of new American vehicles that people would be excited about to prompt massive model sales?  Well, you have new pickups and the sports cars (Mustang and Corvettes that have already been covered).  Pluck those out and you’re basically left with a bunch of ‘meh’ SUVs, since the US car companies have pretty much shunned cars.

I do wonder how the new Bronco and Charger (which is no longer a new car) have been selling for Round 2 though.

Meanwhile the Japanese and European model companies have been covering that product, so I am left wondering what are the expectations of those who are complaining about reissues?  Just some pickups (which would be good sellers)?

[Brian Austin]

It seems to me people have been complaining about reissues since the formation of Round2, or even earlier, so it's not just you 

Do Round2's newly cloned kits count as reissues?  I'm eagerly awaiting the '60 Chevy wagon.  I'd been looking for an old builtup for years without success, so I'm happy for this opportunity.

[av405]

4 hours ago, Mark C. said:

Are there a lot of new American vehicles that people would be excited about to prompt massive model sales?  Well, you have new pickups and the sports cars (Mustang and Corvettes that have already been covered).  Pluck those out and you’re basically left with a bunch of ‘meh’ SUVs, since the US car companies have pretty much shunned cars.

New pickups would probably do well given all of the different variations available (single cab, crew cab, dually, different trims, etc.). Very similar to the range of 1990's AMT Chevy trucks that were released (single cab, extended cab, dually, stepside, 454SS, etc.). A lot of people have voiced interest in having a Dodge Durango kit. This would cover at least 3 major interests: performance, daily driver, and law enforcement. A lot of modern SUVs are boring, but I believe there would be interest in some of the domestic brands. 

In answering this question, I'm thinking back on the wide variety of then-contemporary "everyday" vehicles that AMT and Lindberg tooled up and released back in the 1990s. Trucks, cars, minivans, SUVs. Maybe they seemed boring to some then but it was probably relatable to a lot of consumers. I would even take modern examples as curbside/snap kits to reduce costs. 

I think there would also be a market for new tool "retro" subjects like a 1980's Suburban or a 1990's Bronco. The apparent success of the Revell 1985 Blazer is a good indicator.

[Mark C.]

When I'm thinking of the kits of "everyday" vehicles that were produced back in the day, the financing for many of them came from the 1:1 car manufacturers, where they would contract out to the model companies to produce promotional models for them to give away in dealerships.  The model companies would have much of the tooling costs paid for through these contracts, and because of this could then produce models of cars that most people wouldn't have necessarily considered to be the best subjects for model kits (like Chevettes, etc), while still remaining profitable.  I can't recall whether the Lindberg kits of the 1990s fall into that category, though. but I thought some of them were offered as promos if memory serves.

As for modern days, it seems that promo models are few and far between, and now seem to be mostly diecasts when they do happen, so any new plastic kit subject tooling would have to be completely financed by the model company, which would mean that they would have to sell a lot more just to break even.

The reissues and clone kits seem to be no-brainers in terms of being able to produce a kit with much less investment (and thus less-risky business case), so presumably production runs can be smaller while still remaining profitable.  I'm thinking that companies that have a sizeable library of old tooling would be foolish to not use these to help keep the lights on.

The thing I find strange about these discussions is that at times people seem almost put out that a company is producing something that they are not interested in.  IMHO there's so much product out there that there is something for just about everybody... in fact more than any one person could possibly build unless the only thing they do is build model cars.  Even then...  So why not just be happy that companies are still making model cars that we can buy.  There's lots of stuff that I have no interest in (like sci-fi, show rods, etc.  I don't even really know what gundam is all about, so...), but others do so I'm glad that those people get what they want, meanwhile I'll buy what I want.

As always, thanks for the discussion.

[Justin Porter]

6 hours ago, Mark C. said:

Are there a lot of new American vehicles that people would be excited about to prompt massive model sales?

The international companies aren't especially focused on new cars so I think this is somewhat of a wrong head.

Right now, the big focus in new-tooling has been doing new kits of classic subjects that either have been overlooked entirely or that have only had kits that are contemporary to their subject matter and thus aren't of modern quality.

One of the best examples of this is Aoshima's new tool Nissan 180SX. Fujimi and Tamiya have offered this car for decades in their line-ups, but both kits debuted over 25 years ago and don't feature the detail or the modular design necessary to offer a wide variety of kits from a single tooling suite.

There are easily dozens of domestic subjects - many of which are not in the least bit obscure - that absolutely need modern and adaptable tooling. Just coming immediately to mind are subjects like a '34 Ford 3 window coupe, '53 Cadillac Eldorado, '71-'73 Buick Riviera, '70-'73 Dodge Challenger or a track roadster style T.

[ss2000]

I personally love the reissues. I look at it as a chance to relive my childhood and to get kits I never had. I’ll be 59 in January so a lot of the kits being reissued and cloned are from my youth and I build those. I have a kit of my z06 and will probably never build it and I doubt there will ever be a kit of my Colorado zr2. 

Edited 12 hours ago by ss2000

[chryslerjunkandstuff]

11 hours ago, baycolony said:

Just wondering if anyone else feels the way I do about the domestic side of this hobby.  It seems that the model companies who produce primarily domestic cars (AMT, Revell, Atlantis, etc) have been more interested in reissuing old kits (some with new decals or parts), than producing newly tooled kits.  Japanese manufacturers are constantly issuing many different newly tooled kits, and new military kits are constantly being produced.  These are highly detailed and many are now multi-media examples. I know there have been some recent new tools but they are certainly few and far between.  You would think that a C7 ZRI Corvette or the most recent GT500 Mustang would have been high on the list of these domestic producers but alas we still wait as old kits are reissued.  Food for thought.

Nope, couldn't be happier myself..

Atlantis is doing cool things..

Moebius is amazing..

Round2 is consistently the best in the entire industry with all of their works..

They are absolutely PEERLESS..

With all the other Brand-X model companies, the awesome resin casters, and 3D printing, all us kit-head model builders have AN EMBARRASSMENT OF RICHES in terms of choice..

These are great days we're livin bros!

More people need to understand that and be humbled and thankful, rather than to complain and whatever else all the time..

Food for thought..

[Mark]

I would disagree with calling retooled kits of previously manufactured subject matter "reissues".  They are new kits, with improved detail, parts fit, and sometimes symmetry that the originals didn't have.  

[Beans]

Reissues are fine as long as they are reissuing the kits I want and not the ones I don't...but alas, I have checked repeatedly and the world still does not revolve around me....

 

I mean who really wants to build a Ford Taurus...bleh.

[Perspect Scale Modelworks]

I'm with the OP on this topic. I'm an old guy but get board with all the 50's and 60's reissues we've all seen over and over and over again. I get the nostalgia some have for the old kits, and the fact that the US model manufacturers are not aiming for a younger market, but come on, give us something new. I was shocked to see AMT re-release the 2005 Chrysler 300c. That's now a 20 year old car. I would have liked to see the revised version from 2011 through 2023. I'm sure a modern F150 would sell well, or Ram, or Silverado. I'm just glad 3D printing is an option.

[DJMar]

[Mark C.]

8 hours ago, Justin Porter said:

There are easily dozens of domestic subjects - many of which are not in the least bit obscure - that absolutely need modern and adaptable tooling. Just coming immediately to mind are subjects like a '34 Ford 3 window coupe, '53 Cadillac Eldorado, '71-'73 Buick Riviera, '70-'73 Dodge Challenger or a track roadster style T.

I specifically didn’t mention any of these older subjects because the narrative has been that they only appeal to a dying demographic (mine) and that the only way to continue to bring young modellers into the hobby is to give them subject matter that they can relate to.  Is a 17 year old really going to want to build a ’53 El Dorado?  For that matter, would there even be an onslaught of gen X or boomers that would buy enough to make it profitable?  That sounds more like a case for 3D printing than a major model company.

Meanwhile, reissues and clones of old tools make more esoteric subject matter viable from a business perspective, and Round 2 have been bringing back subject matter that hasn’t been available for many decades.  I really can’t see anything wrong with that.

[Beans]

Best thing about reissues is watching all the price gougers on the auction sites try to liquidate quickly each time a new kit is announced.  Suddenly that super rare, half built, dipped in house paint, with somebody's initials carved in it model isn't worth $150

[stavanzer]

11 hours ago, av405 said:

I think there would also be a market for new tool "retro" subjects like a 1980's Suburban or a 1990's Bronco. The apparent success of the Revell 1985 Blazer is a good indicator.

I agree for this subject matter.

Especially since you have TV shows (old and new) that could be used to help sell these models.

"Burban's a Bronco's cover so much territory that within those lines, there is a lot to choose from.

[av405]

1 hour ago, stavanzer said:

I agree for this subject matter.

Especially since you have TV shows (old and new) that could be used to help sell these models.

"Burban's a Bronco's cover so much territory that within those lines, there is a lot to choose from.

Agreed. I'm certainly no insider, but I wonder how hard it would be for, say, Revell to tool up a Suburban out of the Blazer or AMT to tool up a 1992 Bronco out of their 1992 F-150 kit. I know significant investment would be required, but some of the parts already exist and would be interchangeable.

As for a 1992 Bronco kit, can you imagine the box art possibilities? Just draw a white Bronco cruising down a generic Los Angeles-area freeway 😄