Posting photos... and taking the heat...

[Harry P.]

Seems like we have a debate going as to whether or not criticizing someone's work is fair or not.

Here's my take: Whenever you post pictures of your work here, or on any public forum, you're basically inviting comment and criticism of your work. After all, it's a public forum! And the public has every right to comment, positively or negatively.

Now, don't get me wrong... I don't like to see nasty comments or rude remarks, but a little "constructive criticism" is the whole point! That's why we post our work... to get feedback from the group, and maybe learn a thing or two, maybe have a mistake that we missed pointed out to us. In that way we all become better modelers!

IMO, it's incredibly naive and unrealistic to expect nothing but pats on the back and "oohs and aahs"... if you can't take any form of comment other than that, it's probably best not to post your work at all.

Anyway, that's my opinion. How about the rest of you?

[caine440]

Hello

While I can be my own worst critic, anytime you post on the web you need to have a thick skin. People can be very brave from the safety of thier keyboards, but most often they are just trying to help.

I had a phone call in which a person who had seen one of my posts and pointed out 2 errors on the model that were easy fixes, I had not noticed and he was right and now I am taking care of the little issues.

I look at sites like this as a resource tool to tap into the thoughts and skills of those more talented then myself.

Simple rule for me when dealing with the web is try not to take anything personal.

Have a Great Day.

[crazyjim]

I agree too! Posting to a public forum opens the doors. I wouldn't think though, that people would be cruel. Constructive criticism is differnt from plain rudeness.

[roadhawg]

I agree too. One reason I like to post WIP's is in case I do something wrong, someone can point it out so I can correct it before its too late. However, it's sorta rude to be TOO blunt.....saying things like "Your work looks like garbage"....even though, some of mine does!

[Foxer]

Why would anyone post but to receive feedback? ... just remember ALL feedback is good. Sometimes constructive criticism can seem to have a bad taste but remember how difficult it is to get that sincerity in helping another modeler across with just the typed word. I melt when receiving praise, but LEARN when receiving helpful comments.

[MikeMc]

Many times I see a posting that is just bad. Rather than point it out I stay quiet.

I'm not gonna say Great Paint....when its not. I look at the number of views and if nothing gets said.....

I got the message. And then I learn...If I rip someones job...I'm not gonna start lying about it!!

[Bernard Kron]

To a large degree most threads are self selecting so the issue you are raising, Harry, is less of a problem than those with the thinnest skins would make it out to be. What I mean is that in most cases if people comment it’s because what’s being posted is something that interests them and they already relate to. That’s why most replies tend to be along the lines of positive comments, even to the point of simplistic things like “Cool!â€, “Gorgeousâ€, etc. There’s nothing wrong with that. It offers encouragement and support. It also has the advantage of keeping things pleasant and on an even keel. Unfortunately, it's also unchallenging, not offering much in the way of expansion of knowledge and information.

So, when something is posted that draws criticism, those criticisms, however well intentioned and kindly phrased they may be, are already a long ways away from the normal chit chat. So if you’re a poster who is participating in a forum on the level of this “normal chit chat†and that is all you want out of it, criticism can actually be a rather rude intrusion into what you showed up for in the first place

Unfortunately, you don’t get any “points†for just showing up. But most of us aren’t here to collect “pointsâ€, just to find a welcoming environment for our participation in this hobby. As I said above, most of the time things work out fine. Most of the time, regardless of how excellent, amateurish, crude, meticulously executed, original, trite, glue-bombed, sanitary or whatever our model is, the worst that can possibly happen is that no one will care, and even this is very rare indeed. Otherwise there’s someone out there that will find value in what you did and say so with some kind words.

People are quite often polite, sensitive, caring, supportive, perceptive and interested in what you’re attempting to do and how you’re doing it. But just as easily, people can be boorish, self-absorbed, egotistical and only interested in what they’re doing and what they already know. It’s the risk inherent in any public forum.

Those managing the forum face a real challenge. Do they come down hard on the boors and louts for not being nice all the time, for being off-topic too often, for hijacking someone’s thread, etc.? But where exactly do you draw the line? No profanity? No harsh language or characterization? Every negative comment must be accompanied by an “atta-boy� All comments must be narrowly cast based on the initial post? Obviously, an impossible task. And the problem is that if they were successful any meaningful interchange among participants would be “sanitized†away, eventually leading to the evolution of narrow little in-groups with little or nothing to offer other than their own self-satisfaction.

I suspect this first option is something like what happened at the “other magazine’s†forum. They played policeman and scared away participants with something to say.

The other option is to let the chips fall where they may and risk hostility, hurt feelings, chaotic postings and scaring away newbies and builders not easily pigeon-holed in your forum as it exists at the moment. Ironically, this, too, eventually leads to the evolution of narrow little in-groups with little or nothing to offer other than their own self-satisfaction.

Like you, my own leaning is to risk the hurt feelings and opt for the more “libertarian†approach. We’re not all adults here, regardless of our calendar age. Immaturity comes in many forms. But I would hope we would attempt to treat each other as adults, again regardless of the calendar age of ourselves or our fellow forum members. I would think, for example, that for an enthusiastic young modeler just getting started, the opportunity to interact with seasoned builders might have a certain attraction. And we all know of the many “seasoned builders†who are only too happy to share their time and knowledge with fellow forum members. A few rough edges now and then is well worth the risk.

So, ultimately, the challenge lies with every one of us as forum members to balance offering a meaningful opinion or point of view with respect for our fellow members' own reasons and motivations for participating in this wonderful hobby. I guess it's just basic good manners...

Edited July 20, 2009 by gbk1

[Harry P.]

So, ultimately, the challenge lies with every one of us as forum members to balance offering a meaningful opinion or point of view with respect for our fellow members' own reasons and motivations for participating in this wonerful hobby. I guess it's just basic good manners...

Bernard, I agree with your observation that there will inevitably be a few "rough edges" and maybe even a few ruffled feathers, but ultimately free give and take, kept civil and not rude or nasty, makes for a better forum.

Your last line sums it up to a "T"...

[crispy]

Beautiful and agreeable commentary. I cannot agree more.

With that said, I love posting pictures of stuff I have done. I want to see the pictures on the computer because I myself can see the flaws better to fix. If anyone feels the need, I certainly appreciate constructive criticism in a tactful manner.

The internet does not offer a way to interpret inflections, emotions and the like. It comes down to how you've written what you want to say and how the poster perceives that.

Chris

[cruz]

The best way to grow is through critisism, as you guys know I post a lot of my WIP stuff when it comes to my builds here in the forum and I look at it as a way to sometimes take a different and sometimes better aproach to complete my builds specially when I hear suggestions and ideas from people here. If there is critisism I will welcome it also, I know for a fact that I am no Bill Geary or David Thibodeau but I am happy where I am, I really enjoy sharing the little bit of stuff I know and I have FUN doing it!!

[Bernard Kron]

The internet does not offer a way to interpret inflections, emotions and the like. It comes down to how you've written what you want to say and how the poster perceives that.

Now that was well put! Both parties share a little of the responsibility for the outcome of the interaction (just like in the non-virtual world!). Unfortunately sometimes we lose sight of that...

[old-hermit]

Now that was well put! Both parties share a little of the responsibility for the outcome of the interaction (just like in the non-virtual world!).

Creative photography to hide all the screw ups works pretty good too. heh heh heh.

[Eshaver]

First Harry, if ya are going to post a picture of your work then you should be ready to view it from SOMEONE ELSES EYES ! You have presented a well thought out post . I would also say that a little common sense goes a heck of a long way too. For example , if you post a picture of something here that has Obvious flaws, why are you exposing your self to ridicule ? Now only when do I see a model that dosent need to be on here would I ever say anything really negative . Yes, I have posted a few comments about " Low- Riders " and some cars with Bling Wheels . Look, I am simply not into them and I never will be . Still, I wouldn't make blanket putdowns asI certainly wouldn't some one doing that to me .

Just remember , a camera sees exactly whats in front of it ! It sees every unsanded line and every paint run. look before yapost !!!!!!!!!!!! Ed Shaver

[Bernard Kron]

Creative photography to hide all the screw ups works pretty good too. heh heh heh.

[Harry P.]

Creative photography to hide all the screw ups...

That's what God invented Photoshop for!

[Guest Mustang3.8]

My photos were one of the reasons I was kicked off BMC. That, and the founder did'nt like my building style, or me personally.

[RodneyBad]

Creative photography to hide all the screw ups works pretty good too. heh heh heh.

All comments were removed to insure no feelings got hurt.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Zukiholic

[Ryan Quantz]

The way I see it...

If you have thin skin and cannot take some criticism, don't post. These days it seems we have to make everybody feel good. Like childrens' sports are now giving everyone a trophy and some are even resorting to NOT KEEPING SCORE because it makes kids feel bad when they lose! In life, there are winners and losers. That's just how it is. The truth hurts, and you cannot expect an OOH or AHH with everything that you do. Most members here are not out to make anyone cry. They are offering their advice, their suggestions for how to improve. If you cannot take it on the internet, you aren't ready to face the REAL world. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings, but my feelings got hurt plenty on my road in life and i'm a better man because of it.

[Guest Mustang3.8]

The way I see it...

If you have thin skin and cannot take some criticism, don't post. These days it seems we have to make everybody feel good. Like childrens' sports are now giving everyone a trophy and some are even resorting to NOT KEEPING SCORE because it makes kids feel bad when they lose! In life, there are winners and losers. That's just how it is. The truth hurts, and you cannot expect an OOH or AHH with everything that you do. Most members here are not out to make anyone cry. They are offering their advice, their suggestions for how to improve. If you cannot take it on the internet, you aren't ready to face the REAL world. Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings, but my feelings got hurt plenty on my road in life and i'm a better man because of it.

You are absolutly right, Ryan.

[B_rad88]

well, first off fellas you all make good points!

and what the BLEEP is wrong with low riders or donks? or car with big shinny rims? huh? thats all that drive down the street where i live! and its all WHITE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!! i am not tring to sound racist, by no means at all! that would be stupid of me, cuase i am white!

sorry, but i had to many redbulls today!

[Guest Mustang3.8]

well, first off fellas you all make good points!

and what the BLEEP is wrong with low riders or donks? or car with big shinny rims? huh? thats all that drive down the street where i live! and its all WHITE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!! i am not tring to sound racist, by no means at all! that would be stupid of me, cuase i am white!

sorry, but i had to many redbulls today!

You are absolutly right, Brandon. There is nothin' wrong with lowriders. I like seein' taildraggers.

[B_rad88]

You are absolutly right, Brandon. There is nothin' wrong with lowriders. I like seein' taildraggers.

those are nice! my favorite would have to be the hooptie dancers!!!!! or the high hoppers!!!

Edited July 20, 2009 by KUZTOMMODELS88

[Guest Mustang3.8]

those are nice! my favorite would have to be the hooptie dancers!!!!! or the high hoppers!!!

I like the hoppers, too. Lindberg makes model kits that actually dance, and have working lights.

[B_rad88]

I like the hoppers, too. Lindberg makes model kits that actually dance, and have working lights.

really? i didn't know that! do you have a pic?

[Guest Mustang3.8]

I'll see if I can find some for you. Here are the ones I know of:

1953 Bel Air

1979 Cadillac

1969 Riviera

1961 Impala