G&J is there a kit available of a stock "41" W

[Steve D.]

I would like to build a model of a stock Willy's coupe if possible and was wondering if not , would it be possible to use the running gear from a "40" or "41" Ford to fake it . It seems to me that technology being what it was they might be very similiar , or even hopefully , the same .

I don't ever recall seeing a stock kit ( even on E-PAY) so I'm not sure if there was one produced . I know in thier day they were not extremely popular , but after the war thier shape and light weight made them highly sought after by racers , and now by anyone who loves hot-rods .

I have a couple of AMT kits and also a bunch of the Revell kits , both the Hot Rod version and the SWC gasser . I figured if any one could sort this out it would be you guys .

I 've actually written a pretty cool story about the "42?" Willy's and would like to build a model of it ? before I share the story . And of I'll be sending it to you guys first of course for your approval . ( I think you'll get a kick out of it)

TIA and see you around the club house

Steve D.

[Jairus]

It's my understanding that the Willys was an "economy" car. Small with a little flathead 4 engine. Nothing exists to my knowledge that fits that bill other than a Jeep motor. Could be that Revell of Germany has a 1/25th scale Jeep that your could remove the powerplant... However I have no idea where else you might find running gear, bumpers, interior, trim.. etc.

(Remember Willys/Overland produced the original Jeep?)

Before starting ANY project I do a lot of research to see what parts I can aquire and which I will end up needing to scratchbuild.

Obviously you could scratch build the WHOLE bloody thing if you have the talent and time. But where would the fun be in that?

Sounds like a fun project. Keep us updated on the progress please.

[Biscuitbuilder]

I would like to build a model of a stock Willy's coupe if possible and was wondering if not , would it be possible to use the running gear from a "40" or "41" Ford to fake it . It seems to me that technology being what it was they might be very similiar , or even hopefully , the same .

I don't ever recall seeing a stock kit ( even on E-PAY) so I'm not sure if there was one produced . I know in thier day they were not extremely popular , but after the war thier shape and light weight made them highly sought after by racers , and now by anyone who loves hot-rods .

I have a couple of AMT kits and also a bunch of the Revell kits , both the Hot Rod version and the SWC gasser . I figured if any one could sort this out it would be you guys .

I 've actually written a pretty cool story about the "42?" Willy's and would like to build a model of it ? before I share the story . And of I'll be sending it to you guys first of course for your approval . ( I think you'll get a kick out of it)

TIA and see you around the club house

Steve D.

Steve,

Odd as it may seem, given the popularity of the 37-41 Willys Americar in drag racing, the actual, stock Willys wasn't at all a hot selling car in 1:1, no more than 35-45,000 units were sold in any one year (as opposed to say, 600,000 or more Ford V8's, even more Chevrolet's). So, it's not surprising that no kits of stock Willys cars were ever done. But, if you have some kit-bashing and scratchbuilding skills, all is not lost!

As the Willys "gassers" of the 60's used basically stock chassis, the old Revell SWC coupe and their '41 Willys pickups, along with AMT's '40 Willys pickup and coupe gassers have the basic frame, along with the stock front axles and leaf springs. The basic Willys dash is in there as well. The famed WW-II Willys/Ford MB/GPA Jeeps used the same Willys "Go-Devil" flathead 4cyl engine, as did the postwar CJ2A Jeep--and those engines abound in 1/24-1/25 scale (Italeri and Hasegawa Jeeps in 1:24, and the MPC/AMT Hogan's Heroes Jeep in 1:25 all have this engine, perfectly replicated). A decent 3-speed transmission can be had from a number of sources, close enough for government work--I'd use one from a Revell '37 Ford pickup, frankly. The stock rear axle can be represented by one from an AMT '37 Chevy, using that kit's rear springs as well. For that matter, I suspect that the '37 Chevy kit could also provide the front axle and springs--Willys used parallel leaf springs and a beam front axle through 1942, and they look pretty much just like the Chevy unit. The wheels were pretty much like those used by Ford in 1940 as well, with 6:00-16" tires, so I'd give the Revell '40 Ford coupe a look there. A Willys coupe was only a little bit smaller than a Ford coupe of the era, so the seat, perhaps even the interior tub can come from the Revell coupe as well, with a bit of resizing to fit the Willys body shell.

All in all, while it would be a bit of a project, it's not insurmountable, I don't believe.

Biscuitbuilder

[62rebel]

search collectible automobile for the willys; they've covered it a couple of times in main articles and photo features. the Americar, as it was known, was used by the military for general purpose duties and some were used by the postal service. it seems to me that someone did do some reverting to stock on this car and the henry j; i can't recall who, but they were well done renditions of stock cars.

i rebuilt a couple of parts-box refugee swc coupes into street rods some time back and they are excellent kits to work with.

i can't find much info on the stock suspension/running gear of the willys; there's a lot of pics of the outside of the car but not so many of the underside.

the AMT kits wouldn't be much help; they're purely gassers; the AMT 39 and 40 fords are physically larger cars and use running gear unique to fomoco. the AMT 37 chevy, 51 chevies, and 41 plymouth might be better sources of suspension/wheels. the italeri 1/24 willys mb jeep IF IT IS a jeep and not a ford would be a great source for the engine.

[Biscuitbuilder]

search collectible automobile for the willys; they've covered it a couple of times in main articles and photo features. the Americar, as it was known, was used by the military for general purpose duties and some were used by the postal service. it seems to me that someone did do some reverting to stock on this car and the henry j; i can't recall who, but they were well done renditions of stock cars.

i rebuilt a couple of parts-box refugee swc coupes into street rods some time back and they are excellent kits to work with.

i can't find much info on the stock suspension/running gear of the willys; there's a lot of pics of the outside of the car but not so many of the underside.

the AMT kits wouldn't be much help; they're purely gassers; the AMT 39 and 40 fords are physically larger cars and use running gear unique to fomoco. the AMT 37 chevy, 51 chevies, and 41 plymouth might be better sources of suspension/wheels. the italeri 1/24 willys mb jeep IF IT IS a jeep and not a ford would be a great source for the engine.

AFIK, the Willys Americars were never used as staff cars--those duties went to Ford. GM and Chrysler.

Biscuitbuilder

[mrglubaum]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some Willys Americar military staff cars, but it would have been early on, and it would have been pretty much limited to what had been already produced before the war started. I doubt there were very many. Willys production from that point was concentrated on the Jeep.

Thw Willys as a very simple and basic car, so I think it could be replicated pretty easily with a good spare parts inventory. Revell's 41 Chevy pickup kit might be a good source of suspension parts, even the wheels and tires would be close.

[Biscuitbuilder]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some Willys Americar military staff cars, but it would have been early on, and it would have been pretty much limited to what had been already produced before the war started. I doubt there were very many. Willys production from that point was concentrated on the Jeep.

Thw Willys as a very simple and basic car, so I think it could be replicated pretty easily with a good spare parts inventory. Revell's 41 Chevy pickup kit might be a good source of suspension parts, even the wheels and tires would be close.

If there were any Willys Americar US Army staff cars, they would have been, most likely, the very scarce 1942 Willys--of which perhaps no more than 10,000 or so were produced.

Staff cars during WW-II were actually pretty rare, that is, sedans and such. Unlike today, where the US General Services Administration contracts annually with Detroit to procure a supply of ordinary civilian sedans for government (including military) use, no such system existed prior to the early 1950's--each government agency or department ordered from their own budgets and appropriations.

The buildup of the US Armed Forces didn't really get into gear until late 1940, after President Roosevelt signed HB1776, better known as the Selective Service Act. At the time the SS law was passed in Congress, the US Army stood at a massive 275,000 enlisted men and officers--staff cars weren't a high priority, yet. The Army and Navy were making do with a rather eclectic stock of civilian vehicles purchased throughout the 30's, mostly Fords (US Army) and Chevrolet's (US Navy), and almost all of them were either 4dr sedans or station wagons (Yup, the military had their share of woodies!). The Army also favored phaetons for field use, until the beginnings of the Dodge WC-series 4wd trucks and converted panel deliveries (made into "Suburban" type vehicles).

With the attack on Pearl Harbor, the War Production Board pretty much locked up the production of 1942 cars and light pickups, placing all that were not already paid for by civilian purchasers, in a vast motor pool, from which the military got first dibs on what they saw as necesary, other government agencies having next choice, followed by civilians with a demonstratable need. Such as Packards, Cadillac's, Chryslers, Buicks were in high demand from those stocks for commissioned officers, primary Generals and Admirals, befitting their rank and status. Those were for rear area use only, however; in the field, it was Jeeps, and Dodge WC-57 4WD field staff cars (such as General Patton preferred). At any rate, civilian style sedans were in pretty short supply, there being only a couple of hundred thousand civilian 1942 automobiles assembled between mid-December 1941, and the final cessation of all automobile production in late February 1942, when Oldsmobile produced the last of theirs, all from parts and components already in stock in the factories.

But at any rate, it was officers who used them, and almost always having an enlisted man as a driver--and almost all were 4dr sedans.

Biscuitbuilder

[Guest zebm1]

Hey Biscuitbuilder, my Uncle told me that even tires were locked up for military or gov't. use. He used to tell a story about buying 4 brand new tires for his car at nite on tha Black market, he didn't look too closely. Next morning, he got tha tires out of his trunk and lo and behold, tha tires had molded/stamped on them..."Property of the U.S. Post Office."

[Biscuitbuilder]

Hey Biscuitbuilder, my Uncle told me that even tires were locked up for military or gov't. use. He used to tell a story about buying 4 brand new tires for his car at nite on tha Black market, he didn't look too closely. Next morning, he got tha tires out of his trunk and lo and behold, tha tires had molded/stamped on them..."Property of the U.S. Post Office."

zebm,

Not too sure about that! Both my parents worked in what were considered "essential" jobs during WW-II, Mother in a company working in seed corn development, and Dad in a quasi-governmental agricultural financing operation (Farm Credit System), and both could get tires as needed, under the rationing system in place during the war.

Even a private citizen could purchase rationed tires during the war, but the need had to be proven--generally speaking, that meant being employed in an essential occupation (farming, defense plant, medical doctor, dentist or other health care professional, transportation industry--those sorts of things). The tires issued under these circumstances carried little or no fancy logo's on them, although the tire manufacturer's name appeared on the sidewalls, along with the synthetic rubber grade (S-1, S-2, S-3, S-4), and of course, no whitewalls were being made.

Tire recapping came into its own during the war, and those worked tolerably well with the strict wartime National speed limit, of just 35mph (Imagine, going on a trip of any distance, at that speed today!). But even for those fortunate enough to have been able to purchase new tires, they were required to turn in the old casings, and of course, they had to have the appropriate documentation indicating their eligibility.

The big problem wasn't so much some huge use of tires and other rubber products by the Military (although the Army sure used its share, and then some) but that at the beginning of hostilities, virtually all rubber products in the US were being made with natural latex rubber, which had to come from various tropical countries, primarily in SE Asia, which with the attack on Pearl Harbor and the invasion of the Phillipines became completely inaccessible. Even the importation of replacement rubber supplies from South America and Africa became problematic, due to the immense strain on maritime shipping due to the war in Europe, not to mention submarine attacks in both the north and south Atlantic.

By 1944, however, synthetic rubber was in full production, and tires for civilian vehicles were in greater supply once more. but tire rationing continued until at least the spring of 1945.

It was due mostly to the tight supply of rubber for making tires that caused gasoline rationing across the US, although in the mid-Atlantic states and New England, given that the bulk of their petroleum supplies were delivered by coastal tankers (the "Little Inch pipeline" from TX and OK had yet to be completed to the East Coast).

Biscuitbuilder

[Guest zebm1]

At tha beginning of WWII my uncle was a teenager and didn't as yu said qualify, hence his use of tha Black Market. During tha war he turned 18 and enlisted in tha Navy, I guess he still didn't qualify not being an Officer.