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Posted
2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Sad part about that is there's no good reason to replace that quarter panel.

Yeah, it's the way most shops would do it these days, but a perfectly adequate, safe, permanent, and undetectable repair can be done by a competent sheetmetal man who can do real hammer-dolly work and weld and metal-finish a little hole.

This is one big reason a lot of nice older cars are ending up totalled when they still have many years of life in them otherwise.

I hate what has become of the automobile repair industry.

EDIT: It is also entirely possible an unscrupulous shop would repair the existing panel at significantly less cost to them in labor and parts, but bill the payer the full pop for panel replacement.

I've seen it innumerable times.

Odds are the owner would never know, and post-repair inspections by insurance companies are rare unless there's structural damage or the vehicle is brand new.

 

I agree, but the problem is finding someone with the skill set to do the repair without using a 55 gal. drum of Bondo. 

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Posted

Went to hobby lobby in soo Michigan today and same thing, the same kits that have been there for like 5 years. Mind you there are lots but nothing new. The way I see it, privately owned hobby shops always seem to have the latest kits and sometimes vintage ones too, as well as all the good assortment of paints, glue and brushes and other good stuff

Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, espo said:

I agree, but the problem is finding someone with the skill set to do the repair without using a 55 gal. drum of Bondo. 

Yup.

Back circa 2005, the last time I ran someone else's body shop, I'd write my initial estimate on older cars to replace what most shops would, to see what kind of money we were looking at overall. Then I'd talk to my guys (who were both pretty good old-school bodymen) about whether they were comfortable doing repairs where we could, instead of replace.

Then I'd re-write the estimate at lower cost, but converting some of the saved parts cost to labor for repair.

The insurance companies were always happy to save money, the bodyman made more on the job, and even though our total take on those jobs was lower, the profit margin was higher. Everybody won...and we saved more than one nice car from the crusher by getting the cost below the threshold to "total".

But I always made sure everyone in the loop knew exactly what we were doing from the outset. Not only is writing and billing for "replace" but doing "repair" dishonest, dog help you if you get caught. Criminal charges and civil suits can be the result...and insurers will avoid your shop ever after.

PS: The reason I was able to do this effectively, consistently, is because I'd done the in-shop work for years, and knew exactly what COULD be done correctly, and safely...and I oversaw my people to make sure everything was done right.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY
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Posted
18 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yup.

Back circa 2005, the last time I ran someone else's body shop, I'd write my initial estimate on older cars to replace what most shops would, to see what kind of money we were looking at overall. Then I'd talk to my guys (who were both pretty good old-school bodymen) about whether they were comfortable doing repairs where we could, instead of replace.

Then I'd re-write the estimate at lower cost, but converting some of the saved parts cost to labor for repair.

The insurance companies were always happy to save money, the bodyman made more on the job, and even though our total take on those jobs was lower, the profit margin was higher. Everybody won...and we saved more than one nice car from the crusher by getting the cost below the threshold to "total".

But I always made sure everyone in the loop knew exactly what we were doing from the outset. Not only is writing and billing for "replace" but doing "repair" dishonest, dog help you if you get caught. Criminal charges and civil suits can be the result...and insurers will avoid your shop ever after.

PS: The reason I was able to do this effectively, consistently, is because I'd done the in-shop work for years, and knew exactly what COULD be done correctly, and safely...and I oversaw my people to make sure everything was done right.

A couple of years ago we moved to downsize our home, and the garage became a cramped two car from the oversized three car. While trying to back in on my side so that I could open the door between our cars I had a close encounter with the garage door frame. The dealer wanted $2000 + to repair and said they would have to remove the door skin to be sure I didn't damage the guard beams inside the door. There was hardly a wrinkle in the door skin. Another independent body shop was within a couple of hundred dollars of the dealers estimate as well. At that time, I remembered a small one man shop in the next town that had done some paint touch up for me on a pickup and removed the spoiler on another car that I had bought a few years before and he was a fraction of the cost, and the work was done perfectly each time. I had to wait a couple of months to get my car in, but it was done within a week, and the paint match was perfect and still is today. All for $400 and I think you know where I would go if I ever needed anything done again. By the way his shop is immaculate and so was my car when I picked it up. 

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Posted (edited)
On 1/18/2025 at 1:26 PM, espo said:

...I had to wait a couple of months to get my car in, but it was done within a week, and the paint match was perfect and still is today. All for $400 and I think you know where I would go if I ever needed anything done again. By the way his shop is immaculate and so was my car when I picked it up. 

The guy who owns the shop where I'm building the '66 Chevelle is the best bodyman I've ever known, and he learned from his father who opened the place many many years ago.

He is the only one in the shop who does collision repair (my only involvement is as a subcontractor building the Chevelle).

They had to let the last bodyman go because he'd shortcut things and didn't seem to be able to block a panel straight if his life depended on it.

They've been trying for years to hire a competent replacement, or a trainable entry level guy. The "experienced" applicants have all been hackers with a wildly overblown opinion of their ability, and the kids have watched too many car-shop shows where nobody ever actually does any work, and some have even tried to tell us we're "doing it wrong", though they have no experience whatsoever other than what they've seen on YooToob.

When the Chevelle and the '59 El Camino custom builds are done, they'll be closing down because you can't stay in business if there's nobody to do consistent, high quality work...and they will not compromise the quality that comes out to fit the skills of what's available now.

And people shout me down when I go into the reality of the skilled trades today. 

Anyone who's ever done high quality bodywork knows it's different from many other skilled trades, as it requires just as much art as science, and to be really good at it, the motivation comes from inside.

But the attitude many of the college-educated have towards the skilled trades, that if you don't have a degree you must be a knuckle-dragging chimp, and that any knuckle-dragging chimp can do any kind of physical work interchangeably, is largely responsible for nobody much wanting to pursue trades as careers anymore.

Never mind that it's still possible for a good bodyman or mechanic to earn a 6-figure income, and a lot of the smug college-"educated" are unemployable as anything but baristas or dog-walkers.

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
  • Like 5
Posted (edited)

Ace just about sums it all up !

Good quality skilled craftsmen and women gain their skills through years of practice, dedication and the right attitude.

Seen it all. The know it all guys fresh out of university who may have a degree and still wet behind the ears who over value themselves, when in reality they are just starting out in the real world but still don't have the intelligence to realise that ! 

Edited by Bugatti Fan
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Posted
22 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

The guy who owns the shop where I'm building the '66 Chevelle is the best bodyman I've ever known, and he learned from his father who opened the place many many years ago.

He is the only one in the shop who does collision repair (my only involvement is as a subcontractor building the Chevelle).

They had to let the last bodyman go because he'd shortcut things and didn't seem to be able to block a panel straight if his life depended on it.

They've been trying for years to hire a competent replacement, or a trainable entry level guy. The "experienced" applicants have all been hackers with a wildly overblown opinion of their ability, and the kids have watched too many car-shop shows where nobody ever actually does any work, and some have even tried to tell us we're "doing it wrong", though they have no experience whatsoever other than what they've seen on YooToob.

When the Chevelle and the '59 El Camino custom builds are done, they'll be closing down because you can't stay in business if there's nobody to do consistent, high quality work...and they will not compromise the quality that comes out to fit the skills of what's available now.

And people shout me down when I go into the reality of the skilled trades today. 

Anyone who's ever done high quality bodywork knows it's different from many other skilled trades, as it requires just as much art as science, and to be really good at it, the motivation comes from inside.

But the attitude many of the college-educated have towards the skilled trades, that if you don't have a degree you must be a knuckle-dragging chimp, and that any knuckle-dragging chimp can do it, is largely responsible. Never mind that it's still possible for a good bodyman or mechanic to earn a 6-figure income, and a lot of the smug college-educated are unemployable as anything but baristas or dog-walkers.

 

Your mention of the lack of respect for skilled tradesman reminds me of another experience many years ago. The pull starter on my lawn mower broke and needed to be replaced. This is a spring-loaded affair and something you wouldn't really want to do if you were not experienced since one slip and that spring could take a finger or two. We had just moved to an area that at the time was still pretty rural and the repair place was in the back of a farm supply store. I was the only guy in the place in slakes and a button-down shirt. The person I talked to was almost apologetic for what he would charge me since he said it would take him just a few minutes. My reply was that I was paying for his expertise and thanked him for the job he did. I'm sure he saved me from curtain injury to myself. 

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

But the attitude many of the college-educated have towards the skilled trades, that if you don't have a degree you must be a knuckle-dragging chimp, and that any knuckle-dragging chimp can do any kind of physical work interchangeably, is largely responsible. Never mind that it's still possible for a good bodyman or mechanic to earn a 6-figure income, and a lot of the smug college-educated are unemployable as anything but baristas or dog-walkers.

 

Finding good skilled tradespeople can be challenging, though.  As a college-educated home owner (software engineer) I appreciate people who know things about stuff, can do stuff and do it well, whatever the task is--stuff I can't do or don't have the time or skills to do.  I know I'm not my father (he was a college-educated educator but was very handy with tools--woodworking, brake jobs, engine rebuilds, bee keeping, grapes and making wine, etc).  I'm not great at DIY, and know that.   

I've had too many people flake out and not deliver or not want to take on a task (repairing/replacing sections of an existing fence, duct work, brick work, etc.)  People that never return calls or never show up.   Currently, I've got a great landscaper (mowing, snow removal, etc), a great local HVAC company that also does all things electrical and plumbing, a good mechanic I've worked with on my vintage Mustangs ( the only real downside is he's about 100 miles away).  Once you find a good one, keep giving them business and hope they stay in business..

Edited by Rob Hall
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Posted

There are good trades people out there, just not enough in some areas.  Some of the boomers are retiring now after making money hand over fist delaying retirement during the Covid period.  My employer (a construction company) has brought a number of people into the trades unions in the time I have been there.  The union halls have been empty during the work season (we've got a football stadium under construction that has been using a lot of guys; this should taper off soon) but, if you are a good hand, you will not go wanting for work even after that is finished.

As for other stuff, I had the furnace in my house replaced just before Christmas.  The old gravity setup took a dump...no retrofit available, no replacement parts made in a long time.  My chosen company did the job in two eight-hour days, including fabricating a decent chunk of the ductwork nearest to the furnace.  Got here when promised, took as long as estimated, job done.

The furnace replacement was an emergency job because we were in single digit temperatures, but it required an electrical upgrade to bring the janky fuse panel up to code and move the meter outside as the utility wanted.  That couldn't be done alongside the furnace job, but it took place this week.  Once again, got here when promised, did everything in under five hours.  New panel, new meter installed outside, new wiring from the attachment point outside to the panel.  And they even took all the old stuff away.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Mark said:

 

The furnace replacement was an emergency job because we were in single digit temperatures, but it required an electrical upgrade to bring the janky fuse panel up to code and move the meter outside as the utility wanted.  That couldn't be done alongside the furnace job, but it took place this week.  Once again, got here when promised, did everything in under five hours.  New panel, new meter installed outside, new wiring from the attachment point outside to the panel.  And they even took all the old stuff away.

Last year was expensive, I bought my current house in 2023, knowing the furnaces and air conditioners were 25-30 years old and likely not up to code.  In 2024, I bought 2 new furnaces, two new air conditioners (the house has two complete central air and furnaces each w/ their own duct work), a hot water heater, upgraded fuse panel, new meter outside, etc.  This year will probably be cosmetic work inside--kitchen flooring, maybe remove some carpeting and put down wood laminate or tile, etc. 

Posted
On 1/18/2025 at 2:44 PM, Bugatti Fan said:

Ace just about sums it all up !

Good quality skilled craftsmen and women gain their skills through years of practice, dedication and the right attitude.

Seen it all. The know it all guys fresh out of university who may have a degree and still wet behind the ears who over value themselves, when in reality they are just starting out in the real world but still don't have the intelligence to realise that ! 

100% correct. I've worked trades my entire working "career"(auto/industrial maintenance, ironwork/welder) there's a passion you need to become successful in these lines of work. I've witnessed TONS of people,  a few with actual talent, but no drive or motivation to actually put the time and work in and become successful. Seems they want quick money, "fame" or whatever. 

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Posted

With any service oriented company, you've got to stick to the basics.  Those that do will prosper while the others fade quickly.

My mom bought a home in 1999.  Right away she called in a heating company to check the furnace.  When she asked if it should be replaced, the tech told her it was in good shape and still had about half it's useful life left.  Ten years later, when a new one was needed, guess who got the job of replacing it?

Same goes with any service related deal, even restaurants.  They're hotly competitive around here (we've probably got more pizza/wing places per capita than anywhere else in the country) but a lot of long-timers are still around.  The ones that don't cover the basics don't hang in for long.

  • Like 4
Posted

Yes, finding craftsmen you can trust is getting hard. the shop I took my vehicles to was an old school (as in he could work on a carburetor as easily as he could modern EFI). Two stall shop and always a lot full of customer cars. Always at least a week or two before you could get the work done, but it was done right, and cheaper than a dealer. Since he closed shop, I haven't really found someone I trust.

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Posted
On 1/17/2025 at 8:22 AM, ranma said:

My Irk: An ebay seller trying to scam me so that they don't have to refund the money! I bought an h.o. scale honest sam used car lot kit which went from Sacromento California to Cambridge,Mass where it was picked up in person at a Post Office there. So it's been delivered! I'm located 824.9 Miles WEST of that in OHIO! contacted the sell who claims he shipped it to the correct address  in Ohio. That can't be true as the Tracking # show's it was picked up in Cambridge. Oh and to add a issue he has the same kit listed on ebay under a different h.o.building!

Ah, this is the same problem you mentioned in the USPS thread.  If you paid using PayPal, file a dispute with them. If the PayPal payment was through credit card, you could also start a dispute with the credit card.  Yes, that is a hassle, but you will likely get a refund (since it seems that you have all the proof you will need).  And don't deal with that eBay seller again (and leave them negative feedback).

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Posted (edited)
On 1/17/2025 at 6:22 AM, ranma said:

My Irk: An ebay seller trying to scam me so that they don't have to refund the money! I bought an h.o. scale honest sam used car lot kit which went from Sacromento California to Cambridge,Mass where it was picked up in person at a Post Office there. So it's been delivered! I'm located 824.9 Miles WEST of that in OHIO! contacted the sell who claims he shipped it to the correct address  in Ohio. That can't be true as the Tracking # show's it was picked up in Cambridge. Oh and to add a issue he has the same kit listed on ebay under a different h.o.building!

Rick , a common trend on ebay lately is for some sucky sellers to print a shipping label for an item, then copy that shipping label and add a different address. They do this multiple times to get more money in their pocket. The USPS knows of this scam but are trying to figure out how to counter it. Ive had items show they were delivered in other states according to the tracking number then it shows up to my PO box. 

Edited by Old Buckaroo
not enough coffee
  • Like 2
Posted

I never really had anyone play games with me on eBay, but in the past couple of weeks I had two instances.

1: Buy it Now on a pack of respirator filters.  Got refunded, seller claimed "there was a problem with my mailing address".  Yeah, right.  Lived in the same house 35 years, only shipping address I ever used with eBay.  Next seller didn't have a problem, price was about the same.  First guy maybe thought he was going to relist at a higher price?

2: made an offer on a book, seller never responded.  I decided to buy at the original price, again get refunded a couple of days later.  The seller supposedly figured out he hasn't got the item.  Another one thinking he's going to get more?  Don't think so; I bought a new copy for a few bucks more...

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Posted

My old man has Covid,and I think he got it from me,cause about a week ago,I thought I was gonna die.Now he’s laid up in the hospital.Hes 87.Its a good hospital but still.I feel so stupid getting him sick.😣#%}#$@

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Posted

after waiting nearly 2 weeks for my alcohol to arrive, it turns out nobody had the thought to check the lids were tight before boxing and shipping, then just to add to the nonsense the delivery driver left the very obviously leaking flammable liquid next to my heater. still the bottles and bubble wrap is very clean....

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Posted

The past few weeks I've looked for super glue at my local store. I go grocery shopping and wander down to the section with paint and adhesives but all the hooks with super glue are empty. I buy Loctite or Duro brand and want the gel type. Luckily I don't need it right now but when I'm half way thru a tube I make sure to have some when that's gone. I wonder what the story is.

Posted

Apparently there is a glitch in some automobiles, where the brakes fully apply themselves whenever the driver activates his right turn signal?! I find automobile sitting in the road at a complete stop with the right turn signal blinking (usually just before a side street or driveway). I then witnessed a similar phenomenon where a car was completely stopped in the road and no blinker...perhaps the glitch happens once the steering wheel is turned?! Thankfully my car is not affected, I turn on my signal and the momentum of the car continues to propel it in the direction Im turning 😃 Just can't figure out why so many cars are sitting in the road at a complete stop before turning (with no stop signs or traffic lights requiring a stop). 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, VanGoGo said:

Apparently there is a glitch in some automobiles, where the brakes fully apply themselves whenever the driver activates his right turn signal?! I find automobile sitting in the road at a complete stop with the right turn signal blinking (usually just before a side street or driveway). I then witnessed a similar phenomenon where a car was completely stopped in the road and no blinker...perhaps the glitch happens once the steering wheel is turned?! Thankfully my car is not affected, I turn on my signal and the momentum of the car continues to propel it in the direction Im turning 😃 Just can't figure out why so many cars are sitting in the road at a complete stop before turning (with no stop signs or traffic lights requiring a stop). 

to be safe you should trade in for a bmw. the blinkers seem to be optional so should be safe, lol

  • Haha 3

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