Another Hemi Car: Come On..REALLY?

[High octane]

Competition Resin has some nice automatic trannys if you're interested, in both the short and long tail shaft versions.

[Racephoto1]

I grew up in a Mopar household. My dad had a 70 Duster 4 speed that ran SS/I . The guys that came to his shop ran Mopar's too. One ran SS/GA with a 69 Superbee

440 6 pack. Another ran a 63 Dodge wagon with a 426 Max Wedge, dual Carter carbs. It was a neat car, had the factory aluminum dog house. Also worked on Hemi cars, rebuilt some motors for restorations. My favorite had to be the T/A Cudas. He had a friend who drove one on the street, 340 6 pack, and also ran one of Gurney's Cudas in A /Sedan , and some Trans Am. Trick was the block out of his street car was in the race car. T/A's had a better engine block then the regular 340 block. All the station wagons we had had 400's in them. My brother had a 64 Barracuda with a 273 in it, and I at one time had an Aspen with a slant 6. If you like Mopars there is a LOT of variety to choose from. Yeah, the Hemi is the legend, but the other choices weren't too bad either.

[10thumbs]

Another Hemi? ....and this posted from a Chevy Guy.

If not a Hemi Hot Rod, then it'll have a SBC or BBC in it for sure. But hey, if I was going to buy an old vintage muscle car, and it just happened to have a Hemi in it, well OK. I'd take it (if I had the cash).

Hemi's are cool, and look good under the hood. Sure, small blocks can be built to whoop on Hemi's, but Hemi's can go faster.

I don't mind them, but then again I wouldn't especially like to have a SBC in my model....it's too small.

Michael

[1972coronet]

** Coming From a Life-Long-MoPar-Fan-Who-Actually-Likes-All-Makes **

I , too , am yawning at all of the "Hemi Hyperbole" . It is a great engine ; however , like everyone else who's chimed-in here , I agree that it's overdone . A properly-tuned 440+6 was / is a vastly-superior arrangement ; less weight (those 426 Hemi heads are cast iron) and equatable torque = 440+6 .

The 340 is now-commonly overlooked , shunned in favour of its less-expensive 360 brother . The 340's "downfall" was that it was an expensive engine to produce versus the 383 . The aforementioned 1970-only "340 TA" had provisions for 4-bolt mains ( unnecessary in probably 95% of applications of any Chrysler A , LA , B/RB engines , due to the crankshaft centreline ). The TA's shining parts were their cylinder heads (offset rocker / pushrod capabilities to permit the grinding-out of the 'Dog Leg' ports) , and of course , the Edelbrock aluminum 3x2Bbl intake manifold .

Now , to bit nit-picky : in order to "'properly' convert" the Revell HemiCuda to a 340 , 383 HP , 440 , or 440+6 model , the "'K'-Member" has to be modified / swapped to a non-Hemi part ; and the Dana 60 would "have to" go in 340 and 383 applications ( 440 / 440+6 with 4-speed were standard with the Dana 60 and 3.54 gear ; 440 / 440+6 with their standard TorqueFlite could be opted with the Super Track Pak [sic] which included a 4.10 gear'ed Dana 60 ).

340 and 383 HP models had the 8 3/4 rear , regardless .

Personally , I'd take a 340-powered Dart / Demon / Duster , 'Cuda / Challenger , or 1971-1973 Road Runner / Charger versus a 426 Hemi .

The ideal balance of power (340's had a real world h.p. rating closer to 320-330 hp versus their 275 hp rating) and handling is where it's at .

[slusher]

Was there any Chargers, Cudas, or Challengers with 6cyls? I have seen them in Dusters...

[Joe Handley]

Yes, at least the E-Bodies, I'd assume the Chargers had them too.

[CJ1971]

Was there any Chargers, Cudas, or Challengers with 6cyls? I have seen them in Dusters...

All of them came with 6cy motors, at least from all the info' I've got/seen/read. They were the very base motors in the Chargers.

As for the topic... Well I'm a Mopar guy & I've got nearly all the available Mopar kits. I'm quite happy to have them with the 440 or Hemi. I have no interest in the slant-6s. I like the big blocks ?. I'm not into "base" models. Sure they're cool for the guys who had a 1:1 & want to replicate it & so forth, but I never had 1. As for building them, I generally do custom pro-tourer type builds.... You ever see a pro-tourer with a slant 6? ( stock ?)

If I build stock I'd rather build an R/T ... & they didn't come with a slant 6 either. As for the E-Bodies... I'm fairly sure Revell have plans for an AAR kit, based on strong rumours. So I'll be happy with that too.

As for newer stuff.... The current Gen' Charger is yet to be kitted... Or the new Viper... Or the new Ram... I'd snap any of these up in a heartbeat... Especially if they come with a HEMI!! ????

[Fabrux]

Apparently the slant 6 wasn't available in the Charger until mid-year 1968.

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1968-dodge-charger-six-rarer-than-a-hemi-charger/

[johnbuzzed]

If you're looking for Mopar engine variety, check out what Ross Gibson has to offer in his line of resin engines. There aren't many missing there.

[tubbs]

** Coming From a Life-Long-MoPar-Fan-Who-Actually-Likes-All-Makes **

I , too , am yawning at all of the "Hemi Hyperbole" . It is a great engine ; however , like everyone else who's chimed-in here , I agree that it's overdone . A properly-tuned 440+6 was / is a vastly-superior arrangement ; less weight (those 426 Hemi heads are cast iron) and equatable torque = 440+6 .

The 340 is now-commonly overlooked , shunned in favour of its less-expensive 360 brother . The 340's "downfall" was that it was an expensive engine to produce versus the 383 . The aforementioned 1970-only "340 TA" had provisions for 4-bolt mains ( unnecessary in probably 95% of applications of any Chrysler A , LA , B/RB engines , due to the crankshaft centreline ). The TA's shining parts were their cylinder heads (offset rocker / pushrod capabilities to permit the grinding-out of the 'Dog Leg' ports) , and of course , the Edelbrock aluminum 3x2Bbl intake manifold .

Now , to bit nit-picky : in order to "'properly' convert" the Revell HemiCuda to a 340 , 383 HP , 440 , or 440+6 model , the "'K'-Member" has to be modified / swapped to a non-Hemi part ; and the Dana 60 would "have to" go in 340 and 383 applications ( 440 / 440+6 with 4-speed were standard with the Dana 60 and 3.54 gear ; 440 / 440+6 with their standard TorqueFlite could be opted with the Super Track Pak [sic] which included a 4.10 gear'ed Dana 60 ).

340 and 383 HP models had the 8 3/4 rear , regardless .

Personally , I'd take a 340-powered Dart / Demon / Duster , 'Cuda / Challenger , or 1971-1973 Road Runner / Charger versus a 426 Hemi .

The ideal balance of power (340's had a real world h.p. rating closer to 320-330 hp versus their 275 hp rating) and handling is where it's at .

as much of a big block and hemi homer that I am (and i NEVER get bored with a hemi), i have no problem with any model manufacturer putting different motors in kits. i personally would not care to build a 1968 318 satellite or a 6 cylinder 69 dart, but if they were on a table at a show, i would think they were really cool and different.

now, going off topic just a little but it's to try to answer (in my opinion) the topic question, i have owned hemis and 440's (a few 383's, but they got replaced real fast with 440's), these motors right off the show room floor, the hemi was a fickle engine, i agree. in the hands of Joe average, the 440 can out perform a hemi and was less maintenance, no doubt. the 440 was a land yacht and station wagon motor to start with. what everyone fails to recognize is that the hemi was born a race motor and detuned for street use. put both cars in the hands of a good weekend worrier gearhead and put the same upgrades to both a 440 and a hemi and the hemi will dominate 90% of the time. racing history proves that. hemis dominated in nascar and drag racing. Chrysler hemis survived detuned street use for 6 years, Ford could not do it for more than 2 and Chevy ........

in the model world, i can see people getting tired of seeing hemi after hemi, but in the 1:1 world, i think it's a different story. i remember seeing my first street hemi, don't remember seeing my first 440. you see hemis in most kits because I feel if you want to build a race car of any sort, you need the hemi and manufacturers will not give you 2 engine options (heaven forbid).

read it good Tom..... you know who you are. see you i a few weeks......

I edited this list to include only the 426 hemi.

A journey through a remarkable engine’s remarkable history

• 1964 Chrysler introduces the 426 c.i.d. race HEMI into competition.

• 1964 Richard Petty debuts the 426 HEMI and laps the field while winning the Daytona 500.

• 1964 Three HEMI-powered Plymouth cars and a HEMI Dodge sweep Daytona 1-2-3.

• 1964 HEMI-powered stock cars win 26 of the 62 NASCAR Grand National races.

• 1964 Richard Petty captures his first of seven driving championships with eight wins and 37 top-five finishes.

• 1964 Don Garlits breaks 200-mph quarter-mile barrier in HEMI dragster – 201.34 mph in 7.78 sec.

• 1964 Jim Thornton wins 1964 U.S. Nationals in Ramcharger’s “Candymatic” 426 HEMI Dodge.

• 1964 Jim Paschal wins NASCAR World 600 at Charlotte Motor Speedway in HEMI-powered Plymouth.

• 1965 NASCAR outlaws HEMI by setting minimum production levels for street use.

• 1965 Bob Summers sets present 409.227 mph Land Speed Record in “Goldenrod” using four HEMIs in tandem.

• 1965 Shirley Shahan becomes first female to win major NHRA event driving a HEMI Plymouth.

• 1966 Chrysler builds the “Street HEMI” and returns to NASCAR racing.

• 1966 Richard Petty again wins Daytona 500 in his HEMI Plymouth Belvedere.

• 1966 HEMI Dodge Charger wins the NASCAR Championship, Plymouth is second.

• 1966 Norm Nelson wins USAC stock car championship with seven wins in a HEMI Plymouth.

• 1967 Richard Petty wins an incredible 27 Grand National races in HEMI Plymouth; 10 in a row.

• 1967 Richard Petty wins his second NASCAR championship in his HEMI Plymouth.

• 1967 Don White’s Charger gives HEMI cars second USAC championship in a row.

• 1968 Sox and Martin win three major AHRA events; Ronnie Sox named AHRA Driver of the Year.

• 1968 Dodge and Plymouth produce a limited number of 426 HEMI Super Stock Darts and Barracudas.

• 1968 Road Runner, first budget muscle car, is introduced by Plymouth; available with 426 HEMI option.

• 1969 Dodge introduces Charger 500 HEMI, which wins 22 NASCAR races.

• 1969 The “winged” 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona with HEMI power reigns over NASCAR super speedways.

• 1970 Buddy Baker is the first to break 200 mph on a closed course in a HEMI Dodge Charger Daytona stock car.

• 1970 Bobby Isaac sets a closed course speed record of 201.104 mph in a Dodge Charger Daytona after winning the NASCAR championship.

• 1970 Sox and Martin HEMI Plymouth vehicles win 17 major championships and are runners-up in all other major events.

• 1971 Bobby Isaac breaks 28 records at Bonneville in a Dodge Charger Daytona; top speed is 217.368 mph.

• 1971 Richard Petty wins his third NASCAR Grand National Championship in a HEMI Road Runner.

• 1971 Don Garlits introduces HEMI-powered rear engine dragster at NHRA Winter Nationals.

• 1971 Sox and Martin win six of eight NHRA events; they represent drag racing at a presidential reception.

• 1991 Al Teague sets 409.986-mph wheel-driven Land Speed Record in the Supercharged class with single HEMI.

• 2003 5.7-liter HEMI develops up to 345 hp and 375 lb.-ft. of torque.

• 2003 5.7-liter HEMI in Ram 2500/3500 series trucks delivers best-in-class power, acceleration and towing capacity.

Edited February 20, 2014 by tubbs

[1972coronet]

First 426 Hemi that I can recall seeing was in a 1968 Hemi Dart , back in the early-mid 70's . A neighbour whose house was up-and-over the next block had a '68 LO23 Dart ; first time I heard him fire the car up , I was terrified ! Ha ha ha ... the sound of that open exhaust Race Hemi frightened my little ears ; the ground pounding scared me equally as much .

He used to run the car at Irwindale and Ontario .

I grew up in a neighbourhood that was just-up from Whittier Blvd. I'd see anything and everything cruising ; from Trad Hot Rods , to new(er) Muscle Cars , to stock 340 Swingers and Dusters , and everything in between. I was also graced by the presence of Kustoms and Lowriders . Their outrageous stance , liberal application of brightwork , and far out paint schemes ... all visual delights to yours truly .

I've seen -in person at least- exactly four Slant Six powered "big" cars ; in respective order

1.) 1971 Barracuda (whose original owner refused to sell or at least repair)

2.) 1969 Charger

3.) 1972 Barracuda

4.) 1968 Fury I four door sedan

I , too , am looking forward to a (potential) 1970 AAR 'Cuda from Revell . If for nothing else , its 8 3/4 rear and standard V8 K-Member (and , obviously , the rest of the kit ).

Now , if only someone would update their excellent '69-come-'68 Dart kit to a 1970 model and give it a 340 along with its existing 383 / 440 and Hemi ...

[om617]

I think maby the Chrysler engines are very well known using it extensively in their advertising campaigns.

There is little groundbraking about it and hemispherical cylinder heads have been used since 1901.

Chrysler trademarket this name and are of course very well known for it because of it. As for racing

i think you would have to be an hardcore NASCAR fan to really appriciate it. Big oval circuits and straight

forward drag strips was maby ideal for this heavy lump. I have read that the Hemi heads was 25% more

heavy then the wedge ones. I do enjoy the 426 plain and simple because it was ridiculous to put in an

street car. It is called the "elephant" right? It has an massive visual impact too.

I think back in the days the US public and european public had an diffrent view on what was impressive.

But as for an visual impact,US muscle cars sure made an impact on me as a kid,i did not drool over

Porsches and Italian excotics,my dream car was an black 70 Charger r/t with an rumbling hemi v8.

Today i appriciate anything from little Fiats to Russian tank haulers lol. Yeah i`m weird i know.

[tubbs]

First 426 Hemi that I can recall seeing was in a 1968 Hemi Dart , back in the early-mid 70's . A neighbour whose house was up-and-over the next block had a '68 LO23 Dart ; first time I heard him fire the car up , I was terrified ! Ha ha ha ... the sound of that open exhaust Race Hemi frightened my little ears ; the ground pounding scared me equally as much .

He used to run the car at Irwindale and Ontario .

I grew up in a neighbourhood that was just-up from Whittier Blvd. I'd see anything and everything cruising ; from Trad Hot Rods , to new(er) Muscle Cars , to stock 340 Swingers and Dusters , and everything in between. I was also graced by the presence of Kustoms and Lowriders . Their outrageous stance , liberal application of brightwork , and far out paint schemes ... all visual delights to yours truly .

I've seen -in person at least- exactly four Slant Six powered "big" cars ; in respective order

1.) 1971 Barracuda (whose original owner refused to sell or at least repair)

2.) 1969 Charger

3.) 1972 Barracuda

4.) 1968 Fury I four door sedan

I , too , am looking forward to a (potential) 1970 AAR 'Cuda from Revell . If for nothing else , its 8 3/4 rear and standard V8 K-Member (and , obviously , the rest of the kit ).

Now , if only someone would update their excellent '69-come-'68 Dart kit to a 1970 model and give it a 340 along with its existing 383 / 440 and Hemi ...

oh man, how i envy you. i grew up in northern Ohio, where the street scene was very active, well, for 6 to 8 months out of the year. seeing a LO23 car other than at the strip would have been awesome. my first hemi sighting was at a Plymouth dealer in 1970 (which was right next to the buick dealer my dad was at. a blue 70 GTX with white interior and a black vinyl top, i was 10 at the time. being a veteran of the mopar national, i have seen my share of 6 cylinders, but never a 68 fury.

i had 2 friends that had AAR cudas, really stout cars for 340's. one was stock, one was build. iin their day, they cornered really well too. i can contest to that!! i just couldn't get enough of the big blocks. "if 340 is this good, 440 was that much better" i thought.

[Greg Myers]

So you're standing in line to buy your new muscle car and the guy sez: " Just check off the engine you want. We're having a special today. Any engine you want, NO extra cost." and you'd check off the six cylinder ? Really ?

[johnbuzzed]

That's just a little too fictitious... I don't know the actual cost for the Hemi option in any Chrysler car thru it's availability but if total cost of the car was the deciding factor, I would bet my right *** that most people went for the lesser engine. If money wasn't a factor and one didn't mind dealing with the Hemi's tuning idiosyncracies, then the Hemi was probably the option of choice. There were so many engine options available compared to today (one of two Hemis or a V6 in a Charger or Challenger, if I remember correctly) and current Hemis do yield much better mileage than did the earlier engines; you gotta wonder how hard the wallet hit was with each fillup even back then when gas cost less than a buck a gallon- figure things out for inflation and see what it might cost today.

[Greg Myers]

That's just a little too fictitious...

Ok, then let's apply it to a model kit.

[Casey]

For many people, building a model allows those who would never be able to own the real vehicle to own it in scale, so "cost" is no option, and many will go for a maxed-out, top of the line vehicle, be it a Hemi 'Cuda, a Ford quad cab King Ranch F-250 or a (insert vehicle of your choice here). Yes, some will want the bench seat, column shifter, 4-cylinder '68 Chevy II 4-door sedan with poverty caps, but they are in the minority-- the vast minority. If low-line, stripper vehicles of what the majority of kit buyers wanted, we'd have no Hemi Cudas, no 427-equipped '69 Camaros, no Baldwin-Motion Vettes, etc...but we have them, and many others which are similarly optioned.

For the minority who want what most others don't, they can turn to aftermarket suppliers and kitbashing to fulfill their scale fantasies.

[FASTBACK340]

The oddest combo I ever saw was a `71 Fury 4 dr. for sale with a slant six / 3 speed standard on the column. I spotted it at a local cruise night about 15 yrs. ago. Clean, low mileage car too.

Growing up my neighbors older brother bought a brand new B5 Blue `70 Barracuda. Steel wheels, dog dishes. Looked so mean. And it was a /6 - auto….

As for variety, whats to dispute? I agree, everything shouldn't have a Hemi.

Unless they tool up a new `68 Barracuda, then of course I'd demand it.

[pharoah]

I like choices. It's OK if a kit has a Hemi,as long as I can put something else in it if I want to.

Unless it's a drag car,of course.

[Joe Handley]

There ARE people in the world that would prefer mileage to going fast!

Then there's people like me..........who would prefer the biggest engine possible in the cheapest version possible

[BubbaBrown]

This goes out to R/M if they monitor, Please Please give us the options tween auto and stick.On all re-issues. I'm talking 55,56,57 Chevy's, Nova's and everything else. And while I'm dreaming the choice of buckets or bench and optional console for buckets. We can build alot more what if's , when there is choices. I am 66 and we didn't spend alot of money on too much stuff that didn't make us go faster. With the price of kits today I don't see these extra parts adding too much more in price.

[Joe Handley]

See, I'm not the only one, I'm just not old enough to have been there when it went down the first time

Edited February 20, 2014 by Joe Handley

[1930fordpickup]

If everyone wanted a Hemi than why on earth are Hemi Cudas SO RARE and pricey ? Just saying.

[Harry P.]

If everyone wanted a Hemi than why on earth are Hemi Cudas SO RARE and pricey ? Just saying.

Because the cost of the HEMI option added about 50% to the price of the car. Not a whole lot of people were willing to spring for that kind of cash just for an engine option. Everyone did NOT want a HEMI, only a very few did... that's why today they are so rare and pricey. There just aren't that many out there.

[1930fordpickup]

What you said is what I was getting at with my Sarcasm. They keep saying we all want the Hemi and other Bid Block engines.

I come from a large family and almost every car and truck were the smaller engines, and these were guys that worked in the auto plants.