Pocher Rolls Sedanca

[Harry P.]

Your photos didn't upload correctly because you posted the email/IM links. You need to post the URL links. I posted your photos. There's no problem with this site's software. It was you that was posting the wrong information.

[Cato]

Your photos didn't upload correctly because you posted the email/IM links. You need to post the URL links. I posted your photos. There's no problem with this site's software. It was you that was posting the wrong information.

First, thanks Harry. But I'm pretty sure I did the same as the other 700 times I uploaded here. And that means I made that mistake five times in the same post. Even for a cyber-dummy like me that's hard to do.

[Harry P.]

First, thanks Harry. But I'm pretty sure I did the same as the other 700 times I uploaded here. And that means I made that mistake five times in the same post. Even for a cyber-dummy like me that's hard to do.

And yet. apparently that's exactly what you did. In each case you posted the Email/IM link instead of the URL link.

[Cato]

And yet. apparently that's exactly what you did. In each case you posted the Email/IM link instead of the URL link.

Strong testimony to the insanity displayed throughout this thread.

I fall on my Exacto Harry............

[Twokidsnosleep]

Perfect and brilliant

That is exactly what I wanted to see and I completely understand your method to bend and solder

Could you expand on the annealing...by flame? how long? do you always do it when you bend?

I know it makes brass softer and easier to bend...might be smart if I start doing that

Computers can be a pain in the bum for us all, percussive therapy helps sometimes...beating the &^$$* out of it!

 

[Harry P.]

I think K&S makes two types of brass rod... hard and soft. You can bend the soft kind very easily, no annealing needed.

[Cato]

Perfect and brilliant

That is exactly what I wanted to see and I completely understand your method to bend and solder

Could you expand on the annealing...by flame? how long? do you always do it when you bend?

I know it makes brass softer and easier to bend...might be smart if I start doing that

Computers can be a pain in the bum for us all, percussive therapy helps sometimes...beating the &^$$* out of it!

 

---I almost did!

I didn't notice on the K & S site but Harry found that soft rod is available. But in my case, the main hoop is tubular, not rod, so I had to anneal. I do that with brass strip too if needed.

It's really simple; take a small ViceGrip plier and hold one end of a rod / tube firmly so as not to slip. Turn on the kitchen gas stove or use a propane torch and starting at one end, apply heat until cherry red. Then move slowly down the brass and get each part the same red. It may droop slightly depending on thickness. When complete, use the pliers as a stand to hold the brass safely away from you or surrounding surfaces. In a coupla minutes it cools and is very pliant and bendable. Be careful not to kink it, thus the reason jigs work best.

Don't set your new house on fire because of me!!!!!!!

[Zoom]

So that’s the way it is, now I understand better how this should be done.
I see that I need a bigger place to work in

Always nice to see your amazing work.
Thank you Cato for taking your time!!

[Twokidsnosleep]

Do you quench the metal in water after firing it or does that make it less bendy???

Edited March 22, 2016 by Twokidsnosleep

[Cato]

Do you quench the metal in water after firing it or does that make it less bendy???

No, just let it cool naturally. Only takes a minute or two for such thin parts. Only time I use cold water is when bending plastic in 180 degree water. Then run cold on it to stop the process and 'set' the plastic in the shape I wanted. Did that on the doors.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Thanks for taking the time, really appreciate it 

This is what I love about WIP builds is the sharing of techniques and different approaches...it makes everyone a bit better

 

[Cato]

Thanks for taking the time, really appreciate it 

This is what I love about WIP builds is the sharing of techniques and different approaches...it makes everyone a bit better

 

If I get to Canada, can I get some cavities filled for free??

[Twokidsnosleep]

If I get to Canada, can I get some cavities filled for free??

I hope you are talking teeth, cause otherwise I don't swing that way 

[Cato]

I hope you are talking teeth, cause otherwise I don't swing that way 

  Nor do I.........

Can you install wisdom teeth?? I could use some.....

[Codi]

Cato, I don't care how good you are, or how long you've soldered, one can always learn something new from others.  And I just did.  That's a great soldering solution / technique, that I'm sure I'll surely use at some point in the future.  Thanks for the detailed explanation AND wonderful photos.  cheers, tim

[Cato]

Hold on a minute...

I have explained earlier that I often have to make a part several times before I get it acceptable. Sadly, this luggage rack was no exception. As nice as everyone complimented it, hours later I imagined multiple  things I could have done better. I'm cursed with some kind of obsessive disorder (among other things) that forces me to spend untold hours diddling around. That's why this thread seems never-ending.

Herewith, the trunk rack reborn. Slightly smaller, legs relocated and infinitely neater and spiffy. The pictures will tell.

First, a better jig will always give better results. The previous pics show the jig I made and used on this second rack. It too is smaller and neater:

Results seem promising:

The finished (and polished) product with a comparison with sad old #1. Tighter corners, completely round tube all the way:

Some mock-up fun and incentive to carry on. Everything propped-up but enough to see it will work in its new home. Chrome will continue the theme of the headlights, windshield and side window frames, the running board strips and the rear window frame. This will go in a box for storing until the side frames are fit and polished and the rear one gets made. Then all will go for chrome plating:

http://

[Twokidsnosleep]

You put the OH! in OCD 

[kpnuts]

Stupendous, awesome, fantastic what else can I say.

[Cato]

Dirty little secret...

Not proud of the 'engineering' here but I offer this secret for Pocher builders (and potential builders) that are timid about changing things. IMO, these cars should be about building classics the way you'd want one, not the cookie-cutter way they're 'supposed' to look when built OOB or by the book. I've explained about how the look I am after takes precedence over historical accuracy to a particular 1:1. Top chops, channeling and all manner of mayhem became easy for me to adjust to for getting what I wanted. Creative license again. Pocher purists may look away if this is offensive.

A big irritant for me was the view from the rear of the P II and seeing the tires tucked way inboard of the coachwork giving that spindly look. 19" skinny tires add to that:

So I fiddled with bits to get the tires outboard, closer to the fender outer edges. When mock-up, I discovered that it transformed the side and rear views of the model to 'just right'. NOT hot rod, low-rider crazy stuff. Just a subtle change that no one who is not a P II or Pocher expert would even notice. It just looks 'right'. Give the car a more purposeful look.

While test-fitting I found washers in my spares which are 1mm thick and ~.250 ID. I learned that three of them slipped on the axle with the wheel then mounted, spaced the wheel the perfect distance. The limiting factor was the Pocher screws which retain the wheels to the brass axles. They are short and of a thread pitch apparently not seen on this planet. With the 3mm spacing I could just get three threads in to seat the wheel safely. One more mm and the wheel would not stay on. The axle hole depth is actually about 8mm; I'd love to find screws that long. Possibly other Pocher classic kits use them but they would have to be tested in the Rolls axle.  I scoured the web and pounded on Pocher part suppliers to no avail. But LocTite when I finally assemble them will be secure and safe.   Here is the test with 3mm added per side. You will note the large gap that the brake drum now has from its backing plate:

That problem led to the next cobble. The decision was made to widen the brake drum. Not very elegant engineering I'll admit. But I sourced two new rear drums and began hacking bits apart. The measuring was very critical, to keep the mating surfaces flat and not have the drum rub when the wheel rotates. So surgery began:

The result when painted was to look factory. The red circle shows the three 1mm wide washers employed:

Having said that, I wanted them to just disappear under the fenders and behind the wheel well cover. And not have a 'toy' look from the lower rear.

I'm sorry I didn't take fully-assembled shots in my haste to move on. But I will have to dress the car again in future and you'll see the side and rear view with tires on and decide for yourself. I guess my point to telling this sordid tale is to make the Pocher classics the way you want them to look. Since every one of them is a compromise by Pocher design, to its 1:1 prototype, there is NO stock, accurate Pocher classic to be chained to. Don't be timid of change. You will look at your model for a long time after completion; don't regret that it's not the way you prefer.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Cato

[Zoom]

You are playing in the highest division!!
Excellent!!! 

[sjordan2]

The boggling of the mind marches on.

[Cato]

Small review...

It has been suggested to me by a prolific and expert Pocher-builder that I should show some of the earlier work done and a look at the future. This because, I was told, I present such fiddly 'how I did it' posts and the viewer may not have seen the early work which is largely fully finished and more fun to look at. Too much boring nuts and bolts. Also this is for viewers new to Pocher classics so they  can decipher what the heck is going on. I plead guilty to starting out wanting a nice stock Pocher Rolls in the case to transitioning into the dark underworld of hacking, slicing and altering for an ever-evolving vision. So here is some stuff to see, some of which is buried in the thread and some not ever shown. Note that the firewall here is .250" too high on the stock spacers which is why the radiator brace and shutter control rod are angled up at the rear. Not anymore, they are level now with the channeled body.

A look at early mock-ups with high body, uncut doors, terrible stock ride height, tall roof and windscreen and a host of things I didn't want it to be:

Here's a late mock-up. Photo is the actual car with small photo editing adding the white sweep on the hood section. The rest is the real stuff. Lower, sleeker with channeled body, cut roof and 'screen, doors and sloped and sectioned trunk.

And here is the similar actual photo but with editing in the window frames, running boards and approximate colors for roof and body sides. Fenders and trunk are true colors.Just to assess if I was getting where I wanted it to be. Work is continuing and regular updates soon:

Edited March 30, 2016 by Cato

[Zoom]

Love your detailing and weathering!!
I have ”rolled” through your thread a couple of times, but I can agree that showing some “teaser” is a right way to go.
Maybe you can get one or two more interested to start their own building.

[Twokidsnosleep]

Hmm, this confirms it, I am weird.

Yes, I can understand showing the forest for the trees, big picture view for those with short attention spans  BUT

I like the nuts and bolts, how I did it, here it is in photos, go try it yourself threads. 

Too many post a finished photo that gives you no idea how they made something.......and maybe that is the point to NOT show how to, but to show off for praise. I got in hell for saying so in a thread a few years back.

Cato, I love what you are doing and you have made me a better modeller for it PERIOD. Yes this is a long and picture heavy thread, but there is so much information to gleam from your postings. 

You got me started in Pocher interest and opened my horizons to better model kits

and I thank you for that 

S

[Cato]

Thank you both guys.

Bo, I'm worried that if I get guys interested to build, they may want me to pay for their models...!

Scott, those are VERY nice things you said and I appreciate them. But you were a fine modeler before you saw my stuff. If I helped you get to all those Pochers you have, I'm happy. And the nuts 'n bolts posts will go on... endlessly it seems.

C