Speedfreak Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Carl, thanks. I've been going through some rough spots here lately, I should be back on track in the next couple of days. And yes, I'm finalizing the roll bar now and after I get that done I'm doing some test fit stuff with that and the tub in place. Oh ya. Edited February 13, 2015 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slusher Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Gene take your time and build at what pace you feel comfortable. I like your work so your process works... Edited February 13, 2015 by slusher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Thanks Carl. I'm in the process of doing the first major mock-up, wish me luck! Edited February 14, 2015 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Does anyone know which way these springs go? I can't tell from the directions which end goes towards the front of the car, and , I'm no expert on springs. Edit: Oh ya, When the springs are in place on the frame, the place on the springs where you're supposed to attach the axle is not directly under the front of the car, it's like the car would be 'pushing' the front axle angle. This can't be right? Here's a picture of the rollbar after I replaced the legs with styrene rod and pinned them, (kit parts were too short). It's in place on the frame now. I wasn't gonna call this an update, so , I'll call it a small update. I Should have a full mock-up, ( as close as I can get anyway) , in a day, or , so. Every time I've given flowers to a woman the relationship ended soon afterwards, happy Valentines day. Comments are welcome! Your support will be well recieved! Edited February 15, 2015 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagedragcrazy Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Hey gene by the looks of the chezoom instructions I would say the bigger end goes to the front I think that's what I did when I built my hemi under glass kit the little end fits in the back notch a little better. Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Thanks Vince, that's what I did too. It still looks funny to me though, the angle at which the shocks and front axle are. I'm looking at pictures of the 1965 (?) Yeakel Plymouth Dealers Barracuda that Tom McEwen drove, it had a straight front axle and not only is the axle in the center of the spring arc (not angled towards the front like this kits parts do) it appears to have shackles on the back end of the springs. For the set-up on the kit it looks like I'd have to put shackles on the front end of the springs to straighten it up without dropping it too low. I'll wait and see how everything looks when I do the mock-up, which is still moving forward. Thanks for posting Vince! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagedragcrazy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 No problem I'm not an expert but that's how it looked to me sometimes those instructions don't show much so the best thing to do is whatever looks best. Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Gene...when you do the front axle mockup, make sure to check how the wheels and tires are centered (or not) in the wheel well openings. Every single one of the AMT A/FX-Funny Car kits I've built (four of them so far over the years) results in the front tires being too far rearward in the wheel well openings, unless you move the axle forward on the leaf springs. In the CheZoom model I built last month, I needed to move it forward about 3/32' to get the right appearance on the finished model. You can spend a lot of extra effort to make this change (new axle mounting pads, etc), or just do what I did - glue it in the forward position with no other changes. Still following your build....keep on keeping us updated! TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) The initial mock-up went well. Not too many issues, the frame goes inside the body without tooooo much trouble, pretty standard really. The ride height needs some tweeking, along with the widening and lengthening of the front axle/frame. I'm basing the stance (not what you see here) on the first Yeakel Plymouth Dealers car, which is the car this kit is 'really' based on. Bare bones: The front end: Waiting for assembly: The Profile: You can see the front axle is too short, also too narrow. Another profile shot: The rear quater: You can see a 'Turquiose' stripe that is naturally occuring (from the refraction/lighting) at the very top of the silver mid-section, that just may end up being the location and color for the pinstripe, hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Front quarter: You can really see plainly the wheel base problem, plus the front tires here (Polar Lights) are slightly too small. The Tamiya 'Maroon' drivers seat is going to work! From the rear: Well that's it for now, thanks for stopping in. Edited February 16, 2015 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slusher Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Looking great Gene. Glad things are going good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Thanks Tim and Carl. Tim, I've thought about just glueing the axle forward, but , I also need to fix the distance between the wheel and the brake rotor. I'm using the wheels from the AMT AWB Mustang kit and you get more gap there with them. Man, if I were to use the wheels from Chezooom, or , HUG the wheels being too far inward would be even worse than it is. To correct that I'll need to cut off each end and add some extension, that's the only way I see at this point anyway. So, move the whole front of the frame forward about 3/32" and extend the track in the front on each side by about the same amount, or , just glue the axle forward on the springs. But, I'll still need to correct the width of the track to get the correct stance. I think it might be re-constructive surgery time, I'll have to think about that. What's funny is that the rear wheels are set too far back as well, but , you can't tell with the body on 'cause they line up with the wheel wells, thank you for that. They also need to be widened a bit, but , that will be easy. Here's the sought after stance: Edited February 16, 2015 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Gene, you're right on the money about the too-narrow track width of the front axle on most of these AMT AWB/A-FX/Funny Car kits. I've had to fix this as well on most of the ones I've built (it is really noticeable on the box art photography of the Mustang and Tempest versions of these kits issue by the Model King). TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 16, 2015 Author Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Tim, how did you fix it? Like I said in the last post the only way I know to do it would be cutting it off on each side and adding an extension (3/32? maybe 2/32") piece of round stock pinned, scratch the pin, if it's that short and the right diameter shouldn't have any trouble lining it up right. The trickier part will be moving the front section of the frame forward, I was going to type right here, " but even that shouldn't be that difficult " What? I've never done that before! Still there would only be 'two' pieces to mold in, right? I just looked at the box art for 'The Funnier Farmer' Tempest, holy moly Batman! that track is really narrow! So, I guess I take everything apart and assess the situation, do some consulting. Edited February 16, 2015 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Gene...all a question of how much work you want to put into it. The simple way to widen the track is to insert a spacer between the backside of the wheels and the axle unit. (This would be the equivalent of switching from regular Chromed Steel Wheels to "Reversed" Chrome Steel Wheels. It's OK to increase track width, but on a 1/1 scale car it increases front bearings wear and makes for some strange supension geometry.) The more involved way would be to scour your parts box for a wider axle and use that. As for extending the frame/wheelbase, the easiest way to do that would be to buy a second kit and use the two front end portions of the frames, cut in such a way as to extend the effective length. I've demoed that in magazine articles over the years, but not in this specific application. If it were me, I'd insert the wheel spacers, move the front axle forward on the existing leaf springs, and call it a day. Cheers...TIM Edited February 17, 2015 by tim boyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrozilla Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Gene...all a question of how much work you want to put into it. The simple way to widen the track is to insert a spacer between the backside of the wheels and the axle unit. (This would be the equivalent of switching from regular Chromed Steel Wheels to "Reversed" Chrome Steel Wheels. It's OK to increase track width, but on a 1/1 scale car it increases front bearings wear and makes for some strange supension geometry. The more involved way would be to scour your parts box for a wider axle and use tht. As for extending the frame/wheelbase, the easiest way to do that would be to buy a second kit and use the two front end portions of the frames, cut in such a way as to extend the effective length. I've demoed that in magazine articles over the years, but not in this specific application. If it were me, I'd insert the wheel spacers, move the front axle forward on the existing leaf springs, and call it a day. Cheers...TIM I second that emotion. I really like that getting it right is so important to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I second that emotion. I really like that getting it right is so important to you. Joe...I'm not quite sure whether you are agreeing with me, or perhaps suggesting that I'm advocating short cuts that compromise accuracy and correctness. Either way, maybe I need to explain myself a little better... I'm a big believer in adapting each model car build to the goals you have set for yourself. If you are building a model as a shelf model, a model to show to your fellow club members, or to proudly exhibit at the next NNL in your neck of the woods, I would allow myself the option of "insert the wheel spacers, move the front axle forward on the existing leaf springs, and call it a day." On the other hand, if I'm building for the next GSL or to push the limits of my own building skill, or to set new standards for drag car models as several of the builds underway on this board right now are doing, then the extra effort to find a wider axle, extend the wheelbase via an insert to the frame, and adapt everything else to fit is well worth the added effort. My point is that as modelers, we should have both options open to us. I've been buidling models for over 50 years now, kitbashing for nearly as long, and I've been a judge at model car contests large and small, from several stints as a judge at the earliest GSL's to a member of a judging panel for the MPC National Championship one year when I wasn't a competitor, to local contests at the Riders Hobby stores in Ann Arbor, Flint, and Grand Rapids. I've also had close modeling buddies over most of this period. What I've observed is that some model car builders get so engrossed in adding details and correcting kit errors that their projects never reach completion. And that's a big shame if it then discourages them from continuing in the hobby. (Some builders, by the way, don't get as much fulfillment from finishing models as much as they do from spending months or years adding superdetailing to a given, single model, and that's great too if it fulfills them, is fun for them, and encourages them to remain in the hobby). I've also observed that in a local contest or at NNL's, getting the overall appearance of the model correct, along with good quality workmanship, is a lot more important than spending weeks or months correcting one part of a model kit, but then having to rush to finish the overall result. The great thing about model car building today is that either way - the easier way I advocated for Gene above - or the more involved process he pondered in his earlier post - is an OK way to go. It's his choice, and I for one will enthusiastically endorse whichever way he decides to go forward. I've also noticed- and I've been guilty of this myself on numerous projects, that what starts off to be a relatively quick and simple model build, becomes more involved and detailed and time consuming as the project goes along. I try to avoid this, but when it occurs, I just kind of smile and move on. And I'll also support anyone else who encounters this pheomonen ( my modeling buiddy Tom Woodrufff has always called this "over complicationitis") because, again, we've got the freedom to do this as model car builders. Don't know if any of this makes sense, but at least I tried...(smile)...TB Edited February 17, 2015 by tim boyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Tim, I'm glad you expounded on your ideas. It very clearly let's me know where I'm at with this. The last few projects I've started have been with the goal of improving my 'basic' skills, but , have strayed from that idea. The only reason it's happened to me on this car is the fact that it's an iconic original kit, (or, at least it was!) and , I've fallen victim to the " I need to make the greatest 'Hemi Hustler' ever! I think I'll stop that now and try and get back to basics and do the best job within reason that I can. Maybe I can live with almost horizontal shocks. I'm going in to dismantle the mock-up and chart a further course. Thanks very much for the input Tim (really) it has helped. Joe, get that paint job done and make sure that window/door is open! Edited February 17, 2015 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrozilla Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 First things first, Tim, I screwed up grammatically speaking. I should have said, "Tim I couldn't agree with you more." Then left it at that. Next line should have been, "Gene, I really like that getting it right is so important to you." Those 2 statements should have been separated and addressed specifically to who I was addressing. At my skill level and experience, I would never think to contradict you. Our time in the hobby is the same, but your skill level far surpasses mine. I attended my first NNL at San Jose and it was a very humbling experience. It was also the thrill of a lifetime to meet some of the modelers I have idolized for so long. There are still some people on that list and your name is in capital letters, underlined and highlighted. I did the same thing when I met Roy Sorenson and asked if he had built a model I saw at the PA Three Rivers Automodelers show in 1992. He had no clue what I was talking about as I had confused someone else's with one of his builds. Sometimes my wiring gets crossed and something I have every good intention of saying gets lost between my brain and my mouth, or in this case, my brain and my fingers. If I goof again feel free to call me out and I will explain. Gene, Gene, Gene. I would have PM'd my apology to Tim, but I owe you one too. The overriding thought that runs through me concerning your build is that I know how much you are trying to save your vision of how you saw the car as you looked at that glue bomb in front of you. Your efforts to resurrect it are beyond commendable. I don't recall if you saw my "Big Kahuna" post. I had every intention of building it TOTALLY box stock. I should have called it, "The Hawaiian Murphymobile." Everything that could go wrong did go wrong on a new kit. I managed to salvage the chassis, but I'm on my 3rd 1/16th scale body. Long and short of this tune is, no matter what, hanging in is better than caving in. Oh, and I missed that last part about the door or whatev, 'cuz I wuz overcomed by fumezz. Here's a link to the Big Kahuna build. http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92125 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Joe...thanks for the clarification...makes perfect sense. No apology needed, not even close. Sorry you had to read through my diatribe, but at least everyone now knows my philosophy on these subjects.... I just checked out the Big Kahuna build and I really liked the chassis/engine detail, particularly your paint detail. Outstanding. I also liked where you were headed with the bodies. The paint fisheyes problem is really perplexing in that it occurred twice. When it has happened to me (and it has...) it's been because of a reaction between different types of paints being used, or some sort of grease or other type of contaminant not being removed before the clearcoat was applied. The advice that others offered you is exactly how I would go after solving it as well. My only other comment would be to suggest using the Testors Wet Look Clear, with just several mist coats first, then you can lay on heavier, "wet coats". All the while watching for any further evidence of fisheyes. If you see them, you can try sanding the clear already applied down to a uniformly flat surface, and/or "pooling" clear paint in the fisheye areas, then doing the sanding. I've done both myself. I would very much like to meet you....one of these days I need to get back to the NNL West as I have a long and vested interest in that show, and the predecessor event that went by the same name. It would be great to see all my NorCal modeling buddies (although I hope we'd recognize each other...it's been 16 years since my last visit to the show...), so if I ever make it back out there and you see me, make sure to say "Hey". Gene....thanks for the feedback and looking forward to the next report....all I can say is you've sure captured my attention with this build and it's great fun to see how you are overcoming the challenges and having fun too! Cheers...TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Joe, Everything's cool man, I kind of thought you were talking to both me and Tim in that sentence, I'm just glad to have you both on board! Ya! I made some spacers for the rear wheels and the spring locations on the sub-frame; So I've got the rear wheels pushed 'out' and the rear portion of the sub-frame lowered a bit. Now I just have to see if what I thought would be about right for sizing on those pieces in fact is. I turned the spacers with my X-Acto lathe One of my cats deciding what to pull off next: I'll post pics of the rear fitment progress once I get done. I'm still contemplating what to do about the axle, I'm seeing a saw blade involved though. Edit 2/18/15: I woke up this morning thinking I'm just gonna do what Tim suggested for the front axle; Put spacers in to push the wheels out, and , move it up/forward on the springs to stretch/push the front wheels forward. Edited February 18, 2015 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Here's what I've got after putting spacers under the rear springs, moved the front axle forward one leaf, and put spacers on all four wheels. I forgot to take pictures of the wheel spacers,........they're round Here's what I've got: (This is with the body sitting on it's own) Here's closer to what I want: (Front end raised by temporary means). Without making cuts, the only way I see at this point to effectively raise the front is to raise the front spring mounts (?). One last Picture: The front wheels are too far forward, so , I'm going to make a slot on the springs between the kit space, and , the first forward leaf. That only leaves the the front ride height, and , the huge amount of daylight coming through the wheel wells in the rear to deal with, no problem. right. Another glorious day in Model City. Edited February 20, 2015 by Speedfreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slusher Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Your getting there Gene. The front wheels look best in the second picture.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintagedragcrazy Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Man that's going to nice when your done you nailed those colors and have to agree pic number two looks great. Vince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedfreak Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Thanks Carl and Vince, I agree pic number two is where I want to be, I just have to get there, I'm in deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slusher Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Thanks Carl and Vince, I agree pic number two is where I want to be, I just have to get there, I'm in deep. You will have the stance and front wheels where you want them in no time Gene. Your a perfectionist and it shows in your work. That's really good Gene.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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