Jairus Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) In 1947 there were three general classes of racing cars in use in America. The largest of these is the Championship Speedway car as typified by the Indianapolis cars where the wheelbase must be 99 inches or more. The second class in size is the dirt track racer where the wheelbase is 91 inches. The third class is the Midget, which as a rule, has a wheel base of around 70 inches. The midget size is usually about three fourths that of the dirt track racer. As to the wheel tread or track, the usual plan is to use the standard passenger car tread of around 56 to 58 inches for speedway and dirt track cars. The midgets have the track decreased to about 44 inches. A number of years ago I got the chance to meet and talk to Dave Kurz. One of the things we discussed was one of his wonderful illustrations called “Don’t Askâ€, the subject matter a 1937 Ford flatbed with a 60 Flathead powered midget racer on the bed. I have wanted for many years to build a flat bed and midget just like the illustration but the lack of suitable kits has always had me at a loss. Was hoping that I could get it done for this year at GSL but…since I make part of my living building and painting other people’s slot cars… building models in my spare time just doesn’t have the same thrill it used to! At any rate, this long term project has never lost it’s desire for me and so I present some of what I have so far and ACTUALLY begin construction on the midget! The starting point is a Monogram Midget racer which looks like it scales out at 1/20th scale. However, Rod & Custom Models built a 1/25th scale midget from this kit and following the instructions in that June 1964 issue should not be too hard… Many more pictures of this project will be hosted on my Fotki account if anyone is interested. http://public.fotki.com/jairus/1/dont-ask/ …. And I will show updates here but was sure that I started a thread about a year ago... can't seem to find it! Ah well, onward and upward! Edited January 14, 2009 by Jairus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davkin Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Very cool project Jairus! I'll definately be watching this one. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maliburacr Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Should be an interesting build. Think it would be hard to update it to a 90's car ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Hearse Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Looks awesome so far Jairus! This looks like it will be really cool. I have some 1/20th scale corvette parts if you need anything. I'd be happy to give them to you for this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Should be an interesting build. Think it would be hard to update it to a 90's car ? Bud, I have no idea but I suppose so. The car I am building is a hand-built-in-a-garage midget dirt track racer from 1947. All bits and pieces, rules and regulations have been researched to that end. To do a 90's version... one just needs to buy one of the Monogram kits. Lot's easier than scratch building. Marshal, Thanks but I believe I have everything I need. Besides, this is a 1/25th scale model. Not a 1/20th. Although I started with a larger body... I am cutting it down to 1/25th proportions because as of now there are no good options. Appreciate the offer. Incidentally, Revell has molds of a 1/25th scale kit of this car. It was sold back in the mid 60's as both a glue kit and a slot car. Recently Model King approached Ed Sexton of Revell about doing a re-pop. Unfortunately the molds required some machining to make them usable again and Model King refused to foot the bill. (Not that I blame them) Roger Harney told me last month that the molds are now slated for re-release by Revell later 2009 after the mold repairs have been accomplished. No information was given regarding the modifications.... but I suspect age and time have done damage once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Hope you keep up the progress on this one in the new year, J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Why V! I am sure that I do not know what you mean??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 These days, around 75% of your hear is into slot cars . . . and so the fact you are building a model is exciting to all of us. It's not like you've been slacking off . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Should be an interesting build. Think it would be hard to update it to a 90's car ? Bud, did a bit more research and would have to say that you could build your own 90's midget but starting with the Monogram Sprint cars would still be a better start. However modifications will be needed to change the wheel base from 91 inches to the 72 inches that are specified for the Midget as those are the mid sized vehicle I specified above. Here is an image from a book cover that helps illustrate what changes Midgets took through the years by the way. Sprint cars are longer and heavier than midgets, but shorter and lighter than Silver Crown cars: about 1200 pounds for a sprint car, 1500 for a Silver Crown car and 900 for a midget. Wheelbase of a midget is at least 20 inches shorter than a Silver Crown car. Sprint cars and Silver Crown cars are powered by American pushrod V-8s. World of Outlaws cars use 410 ci engines making 800 or more horsepower. Silver Crown cars are limited to 355 ci and produce more than 700 horses. Midgets usually use 166 ci four- (or six-) cylinder engines making about 350 horsepower. Some very early Midgets were built using modified Harley Davidson engines! I am torn between using a Ford flathead 60 for power or going the modified Riley 2 port 4 cyl thumper route on my midget.... decisions, decisions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Bud, did a bit more research and would have to say that you could build your own 90's midget but starting with the Monogram Sprint cars would still be a better start. However modifications will be needed to change the wheel base from 91 inches to the 72 inches that are specified for the Midget as those are the mid sized vehicle I specified above. Here is an image from a book cover that helps illustrate what changes Midgets took through the years by the way. Sprint cars are longer and heavier than midgets, but shorter and lighter than Silver Crown cars: about 1200 pounds for a sprint car, 1500 for a Silver Crown car and 900 for a midget. Wheelbase of a midget is at least 20 inches shorter than a Silver Crown car. Sprint cars and Silver Crown cars are powered by American pushrod V-8s. World of Outlaws cars use 410 ci engines making 800 or more horsepower. Silver Crown cars are limited to 355 ci and produce more than 700 horses. Midgets usually use 166 ci four- (or six-) cylinder engines making about 350 horsepower. Some very early Midgets were built using modified Harley Davidson engines! I am torn between using a Ford flathead 60 for power or going the modified Riley 2 port 4 cyl thumper route on my midget.... decisions, decisions.... Well, there were several engines used down through the years for Midgets. Of course, everyone thinks of the Offenhauser, which started out at 91cid (1.5 liter) in the late 30's, then got poked out first to 110cid, then finally 120cid (Offenhauser did build up two 75cid turbocharged Midget Offies for mechanic Bob Higman of just south of Lafayette here, Larry Rice tested one at about 10mph OVER the highest lap speed recorded by a USAC Championship Car in 1976, gearing up for a 100-lap midget race on the one mile oval at Trenton NJ that was ultimately cancelled. The Ford V8-60 was used, of course, loaded with speed equipment, as was the Drake (built up by Dale Drake, the "Drake" of Meyer-Drake, postwar builders of the Offenhauser engines), which was a water-cooled modification of the Harley Davidson 74. Also, the two-cycle, two-cylinder Elto outboard boat motor was used, particularly on short quarter mile tracks. In the middle 1960's, Midget car owners began working with the 170cid Ford 6 from the Falcon/Mustang, and the Chevy II 4-cylinder. Sesco, an engine building company started sawing 327 Chevy small block V8's in half, using the left cylinder bank with Hilborn FI to create a killer of a 4-banger. Then, in the late 60's, the "Popcorn" era began, when the VW aircooled flat four became the engine to run. And, in 1975, Bob Higman was given two of the very first Cosworth Vega engines for Midget duty. Higman mounted one of those in a chassis of his own build (he was the most prolific winning chief mechanic in AAA/USAC Midget history by that point, and Kurtis chassis were not only long in the tooth, but becoming hard to find), and Pancho Carter delighted in pulling wheelies on the straights of just about every track the car showed up at. Today's Midgets look very much like their Sprint Car big brothers though, very little resemblance to the midgets run years ago. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Got some of the body cut down today and made up a frame yesterday evening. Using the drawings reduced to correct scale as a plan. Front axle had to be narrowed to fit the requirements for a Midget. Not yet sure which powerplant I will be using... but I'm leaning toward a Model A with a Riley two port head because I love the look of two carbs poking through the hood and a set of exhaust pipes on one side. Onward and upward! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 Worked till late last night cutting down the rear of the body. Didn't use the cut lines from the article after-all.... The R&C Models build was a "Sprintcar", also know as a Silvercrown or Dirttracker which is larger than a Midget. Also, the build looks like a late 50's early 60's representation where my car is intended to be strictly post-war 1947! Next comes a lot of sanding and shaping.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroNitro Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hi Jairus, You started me thinking if the Monogram Kurtis Indy car could be cut down to make it a true 1/25 scale. I looked at it pretty good last night and think it can be done. I have a few of the kits so I think I will cut one up and see if it works out. Thank you for the idea I would have never thought of it without your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMc Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I read the title and wondered if Jairus was a little person........................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Body smoothed out and rear axle attached. Time to create motor and radiator mounts up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 The wheels are finalized (for now) and I managed to get the front motor mount installed. Engine is sourced from the Revell 1931 Woody. Front wheels from the Monogram “Orange Haulerâ€, while the tires can be found in the ’31 “A†sedan. The rear rims are from the AMT parts pack re-release with the Allison (before the Stevens International release) and the rear tires are new Revell (fronts), also found in the ’31 A sedan. Onward and upward.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMc Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) Enjoy this one for now...Taken today at my painters shop I took 7 or 8 more pix but they are MIA now...more to follow! Edited January 16, 2009 by MikeMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I'm liking it, J. I likes it!!! You are making good progress. More, more, more!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Hmmm... front brakes! I was under the impression that Migets didn't use them. Are you sure that this is a Miget and not a Sprint car? I am very interested in seeing the remaining photos regardless as it looks to have been built during the end of the 40's! Thanks!!! Hi Virg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You betcha I'm watching closely, J. I'm wondering how you are gonna weather this one . . . if at all. Keep up the good progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMc Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) Got Em!! Edited January 16, 2009 by MikeMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMc Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) There you go...this is a real 40's midget, with the orig v8 flattie by eddie meyer,in out box, 3rd member. midget class was based on wheelbase and wheelsize(12") motors 2,4,6,or 8 cyl. check out that fuel pump!!the brakes were controled by the hand lever next to the pump note kill switch button on brake lever!! 6 lug wheels cause ...this sucker can go!!!! Edited January 16, 2009 by MikeMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!!!! Thank you very much Mike, will help out a lot with weathering (Hi V!) and detailing. Noticed the lo-tech front suspension adjustment bolts behind the grill... Excellent addition Mike Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMc Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 No problem...the owner and car are only a few blocks away...I always find a "reason" to go over so if you need any other pix let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Those are some great reference pics!!! Keep it going, J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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