Modeling Machines

[Len Woodruff]

Brian...

Thanks for Your Note.. although I am a CNC Machinist I am not an authority On Grizzly Machines . I have been to their showroom In Springfiled Mo. and Have tested Out the Machine in question that they have there, and was Impressed with what It could do.

another One that I have good things about is SmittyBilt..

Duane drew of Arrowhead and Mark Smackle (sp) of MAS use these Machines and look what products they can Put out..

they Have Nothing But Prise for those Machines.

Dwayne

Dwayne which machine do they use? Grizzly or SmittyBilt? Do you have contact information for these?

Edited July 24, 2008 by Len Woodruff

[Ron L]

Grizzly sells the same machines you can buy from other vendors such as Harbor Freight and Micromark. "Sieg" is the Chinese manufacturer of these machines; the places I mentioned mainly put their own nameplates and paint jobs on them. Grizzly costs a little more mainly because their name is more familiar and people associate that with better quality.

Harbor Freight has this tiny lathe for about $120 less than their 7x10, which could be a nice simple machine for a beginner or someone who will only turn basic stuff for car models such as wheels, oil filters, pulleys, etc. That's basically what you get with a Sherline but for less than half the price. HF also has them on sale once in a while and they will credit you if it goes on sale within 30 days after you buy it.

There is a lot of brand conformity going on when it comes to lathes and you'll find that many of those people have never touched a machining tool in their life.

[E St. Kruiser50]

I like my Chinese lathe. $500 got me the lathe plus a set of mini tools (regular 1/4" tools are too big for modeling), a live center, and other various tools. It also includes gears if I ever want to cut threads. I'm sure the Sherline is great, but bang-for-the-buck it is not. The base model doesn't have a power fed carriage, which won't give you smooth results unless you're really patient, and you can not cut threads with it.

Check out http://www.mini-lathe.com/ and decide for yourself if the "shortcomings" are worth the saved bucks. For me it was, and I've been happy with it for over 3 years now. The only problem I've had is the power switch went dead, and I replaced it with a higher quality one that cost a whopping $1.50. I cut mostly plastic and resin on it, with the occasional aluminum parts. I wouldn't cut drill rod or stainless with it (T6061 is already taxing it at times), but what do I need that for in non-operational scale models?

I also got a mini-mill from work last year but I haven't used it. Again, for most materials used in scale modeling, most of the milling required can be done with a file and/or rotary tool.

Hi Harry

I have to agree with Ron and a few others who praised the Chinese machines. Most of us are hobbiests and can't justify the cost or the quality of the higher-end machines. Most like myself, don't spend that much time on this equipment to make the xtra cost worthwhile. Here are a couple pics of my "Chinese Shop" - LOL .

I'm pretty satisfied with what I have.

Cost - Purchased new over a years time with all the cutters, holders, vises, rotary table and other support tools and drill press, band saw, etc - $1500 - $ 2000.

Harry, the xtra stuff I mentioned will cost you more than the lathe and the milling machine, and all that is necessary to step up to the 21st Century of modeling.

I have my eye on a new cnc table-top machining center all programable - EEEEEEEHAH !!

Edited July 24, 2008 by Treehugger Dave

[Harry P.]

Well, I'm new to this subject, so I'm still trying go check out all the options and make a decision. Sherline sounds good, but now that some of you guys are telling me you're happy with your Chinese machines, I'm more confused!!!

I had been convinced that Sherline was the way to go, but now it looks like I can get by for a lot less with another brand. I'll have to do a little more researching online...

[Guest Davkin]

Well, I guess I'm just plain incompetent then. I just have never been able to get good results using my Chinese machines on small parts, and even larger parts for my R/C hobby was a struggle. I suspect though Dave that your definition of "not spending much time on the equipment" is far different than mine! Either that you just have incredible natural talent for machining.

David

Edited July 24, 2008 by Davkin

[E St. Kruiser50]

Well, I guess I'm just plain incompetent then. I just have never been able to get good results using my Chinese machines on small parts, and even larger parts for my R/C hobby was a struggle. I suspect though Dave that your definition of "not spending much time on the equipment" is far different than mine! Either that you just have incredible natural talent for machining.

David

Hey Davkin

I'm sure your not incompetent . I ran Bridgeports for years, even owned a few. I was a proto-type machinist and tool-maker for quite awhile, and a pattern maker.

For me this miniature stuff is a welcome change to do what I enjoy now in small scale, but we all have our favorite "WEAPONS OF CHOICE" - LOL .

Happy modeling with yours .

THE TREEHUGGER

[CAL]

Well, I guess I'm just plain incompetent then. I just have never been able to get good results using my Chinese machines on small parts, and even larger parts for my R/C hobby was a struggle. I suspect though Dave that your definition of "not spending much time on the equipment" is far different than mine! Either that you just have incredible natural talent for machining.

David

Agree, and you will get to a point where there just isn't an attachment or setup you can do. I have seen some decent results on a Chinese machine, I bigger fear is not being able to do something on it that you can on a Sherline. Sherline seems like a far more versital machine. Others seem limited on tools and attachments.

Furthermore, my experience with Chinese made stuff in general has been less than satifactory. So I'd be real leary to lay down anything that came close to Sherline prices. If it was a couple hundred for a lathe and anothe couple for a mill I would feel too bad about them being less superior to a Sherline, and thing more than that I would need substatial proof that it was nearly as good and was going to last a long time without wearing out.

The other thing is, what else is someone going to say who dropped a G on a Chinese machine that gets the job done and hasn't used anything else. "Ya, sure it's great." People tend to promote what they use and own regardless if they even ever tried anything else.

And some of these machines are just too big - a 440lbs Grizzle seems a bit excessive for anything I'd be doing. Some of the links and other mentioned machines are nearly as much or more than a Sherline.

I don't know much about these little machines, I used an old style Unimat, and a good friend of mine swears by his Sherline.

But I have used a lot of big machines, Bridgeports, Kents, Winonas, LaFarge, and you can always tell if you are on a well built machine or not after you do it for a while and as the equipment ages.

I have been on a 60 year-old Bridgeport that was far better than a 2 year-old Kent.

[cruzn]

heres some Links that Might help.. or get you More confused...:-)

http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Main/mini-mill.htm

[CAL]

I did spend the better part of day researching this because I wanted to know myself. Sometime in the future I, too, will be in the market for a mini machine shop.

This is what I found.

For the hobbiest like ourselves Taig and Sherline seems to be the weapon of choice.

The biggest difference between these and Chinese machines is backlash, which is important.

There has been a couple people who measured this and found once you cleaned the grease and properly lubed the machine the Chinese machines had up to .050 tolerance, where as the Taig and Sherline was down to .001.

The Sherline was generally preferred because the headstock rotated 90 degrees. No other sampled mill did.

The Harbor Freight is the cheapest, but wasn't anything more than a fancy drill press and no a true mill.

In addition the closest competitor to the Taig and Sherline, the MicroLux mill was only $50.00 difference in price for a comparable machine.

[Guest Davkin]

I ran Bridgeports for years, even owned a few. I was a proto-type machinist and tool-maker for quite awhile, and a pattern maker.

Okay, now we have full disclosure! My primary point about the Chinese machines was that it takes an experienced machinist to get them working decent or a novice that is very motivated and willing to spend a lot of time learning how to tune a lathe and mill. Basically, to use a Chinese lathe you have to become a machining hobbiest. If I'd known that before I wouldn't have bought one. The learning curve to use those machines is too much for the novice unless he makes them his hobby. If you want a machine that will support your model car hobby almost right out of the box a Sherline is the way to go from all accounts I've read. Basically, with a Sherline you are spending more money up front to save your time, time I'd much rather spend modeling that learning how to disassemble and reassemble the stupid machine and make it work right!

David

[Len Woodruff]

Okay, now we have full disclosure! My primary point about the Chinese machines was that it takes an experienced machinist to get them working decent or a novice that is very motivated and willing to spend a lot of time learning how to tune a lathe and mill. Basically, to use a Chinese lathe you have to become a machining hobbiest. If I'd known that before I wouldn't have bought one. The learning curve to use those machines is too much for the novice unless he makes them his hobby. If you want a machine that will support your model car hobby almost right out of the box a Sherline is the way to go from all accounts I've read. Basically, with a Sherline you are spending more money up front to save your time, time I'd much rather spend modeling that learning how to disassemble and reassemble the stupid machine and make it work right!

David

Thanks David. This is exactly the information I needed to know. Dial 1-800-Sherline!!!!

[Harry P.]

Man, some great info being posted here. Thanks!

[my80malibu]

My advice Harry would be too search out, An Older good condition Unimat Combo jewelers lathe. You can find these with many Accessories most of the time, For a better Price than a Sherline which would'nt be a combo and cost several hundred dollars more. Doing this would Allow you time to fine tune your Machining Skills, And if you find that if you want to jump to a higher level the unimat does have a good resale value. Sherline looks great but if you dont use it very much, Its just wasting money that you could use on your hobby. Whatever you decide Remember one thing Be careful when using the machine and wearing a Necktie!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gabriel.

[Ron L]

Agree, and you will get to a point where there just isn't an attachment or setup you can do. I have seen some decent results on a Chinese machine, I bigger fear is not being able to do something on it that you can on a Sherline. Sherline seems like a far more versital machine. Others seem limited on tools and attachments.

They all have the same attachments available. The difference is paying $200 more for a Sherline gets you none of those attachments, where you would have a complete kit with a Sieg. The Sherline also does not have power feed or thread-cutting capability, but I said that already. I don't know about you guys, but I would find it very boring and tedious to turn a handwheel by hand to turn down a long, thick piece of aluminum that requires multiple passes.

Furthermore, my experience with Chinese made stuff in general has been less than satifactory.

So that rules out everything Chinese, then? Based on the ###### your typical drive-through burger chain churns out it means American food should be avoided?

The other thing is, what else is someone going to say who dropped a G on a Chinese machine that gets the job done and hasn't used anything else. "Ya, sure it's great." People tend to promote what they use and own regardless if they even ever tried anything else.

You also get the same from Sherline buyers who've never tried a cheaper lathe and/or want to justify the extra hundreds of dollars they spent.

And some of these machines are just too big - a 440lbs Grizzle seems a bit excessive for anything I'd be doing. Some of the links and other mentioned machines are nearly as much or more than a Sherline.

Weight is definitely a consideration. Not easy to move a 200# lathe if you decide to move work stations. The Sieg X2 mill is under 100lbs, the 7x10 lathe is 80lbs. A tad heavier than a 24lb Sherline, but if the Sherline weighed more I'll bet they would use that as another sign of superiority.

There has been a couple people who measured this and found once you cleaned the grease and properly lubed the machine the Chinese machines had up to .050 tolerance, where as the Taig and Sherline was down to .001.

The Sherline was generally preferred because the headstock rotated 90 degrees. No other sampled mill did.

The Harbor Freight is the cheapest, but wasn't anything more than a fancy drill press and no a true mill.

Luckily my lathe didn't come with the red stuff slathered all over it as mini-lathe.com showed, but that's an old page and perhaps they do it different now. Backlash isn't a concern depending on what you need the machine for. Are you building precision stepped-diameter shafts to fit into custom brass sleeves for a $2000 grandfather clock, or are you making pulleys for a non-functioning model car? Even so, a good dial caliper is a must-have to check your progress regardless of your backlash. I made those rims I posted earlier without even looking at the indicators on the handwheels - it's all eyeballed and/or constantly checked with a digital caliper.

The Sieg mills have columns that rotate, but it is generally recommended not to move them from zero anyway. Moving it away from vertical requires you to re-tram the bed when returning it to zero to ensure a parallel machining surface. It is usually a better idea to use a tilting vise instead.

What website tells you the HF isn't more than a fancy drill press? Which model were they talking about, considering they have at least 3 or 4?

Now that I've got a nice collection of tools and know what I'm doing (more or less), I wouldn't mind having one of those cute Sherlines to carry from room to room, or to a buddy's house to scratchbuild some stuff, etc. But I don't have $700 to throw at one, nor will I find a need to do so, unless the $700 is really burning a hole in my pocket. I know I've got a Sherline CNC mill package in my future if I ever scrounge up the $2500. There are $1500 conversions for my X2 but for CNC I'd definitely step up to something else and ready-to-run on top of that.

[CAL]

Agree, and you will get to a point where there just isn't an attachment or setup you can do. I have seen some decent results on a Chinese machine, I bigger fear is not being able to do something on it that you can on a Sherline. Sherline seems like a far more versital machine. Others seem limited on tools and attachments.

They all have the same attachments available. The difference is paying $200 more for a Sherline gets you none of those attachments, where you would have a complete kit with a Sieg. The Sherline also does not have power feed or thread-cutting capability, but I said that already. I don't know about you guys, but I would find it very boring and tedious to turn a handwheel by hand to turn down a long, thick piece of aluminum that requires multiple passes.

Furthermore, my experience with Chinese made stuff in general has been less than satifactory.

So that rules out everything Chinese, then? Based on the ###### your typical drive-through burger chain churns out it means American food should be avoided?

The other thing is, what else is someone going to say who dropped a G on a Chinese machine that gets the job done and hasn't used anything else. "Ya, sure it's great." People tend to promote what they use and own regardless if they even ever tried anything else.

You also get the same from Sherline buyers who've never tried a cheaper lathe and/or want to justify the extra hundreds of dollars they spent.

And some of these machines are just too big - a 440lbs Grizzle seems a bit excessive for anything I'd be doing. Some of the links and other mentioned machines are nearly as much or more than a Sherline.

Weight is definitely a consideration. Not easy to move a 200# lathe if you decide to move work stations. The Sieg X2 mill is under 100lbs, the 7x10 lathe is 80lbs. A tad heavier than a 24lb Sherline, but if the Sherline weighed more I'll bet they would use that as another sign of superiority.

There has been a couple people who measured this and found once you cleaned the grease and properly lubed the machine the Chinese machines had up to .050 tolerance, where as the Taig and Sherline was down to .001.

The Sherline was generally preferred because the headstock rotated 90 degrees. No other sampled mill did.

The Harbor Freight is the cheapest, but wasn't anything more than a fancy drill press and no a true mill.

Luckily my lathe didn't come with the red stuff slathered all over it as mini-lathe.com showed, but that's an old page and perhaps they do it different now. Backlash isn't a concern depending on what you need the machine for. Are you building precision stepped-diameter shafts to fit into custom brass sleeves for a $2000 grandfather clock, or are you making pulleys for a non-functioning model car? Even so, a good dial caliper is a must-have to check your progress regardless of your backlash. I made those rims I posted earlier without even looking at the indicators on the handwheels - it's all eyeballed and/or constantly checked with a digital caliper.

The Sieg mills have columns that rotate, but it is generally recommended not to move them from zero anyway. Moving it away from vertical requires you to re-tram the bed when returning it to zero to ensure a parallel machining surface. It is usually a better idea to use a tilting vise instead.

What website tells you the HF isn't more than a fancy drill press? Which model were they talking about, considering they have at least 3 or 4?

Now that I've got a nice collection of tools and know what I'm doing (more or less), I wouldn't mind having one of those cute Sherlines to carry from room to room, or to a buddy's house to scratchbuild some stuff, etc. But I don't have $700 to throw at one, nor will I find a need to do so, unless the $700 is really burning a hole in my pocket. I know I've got a Sherline CNC mill package in my future if I ever scrounge up the $2500. There are $1500 conversions for my X2 but for CNC I'd definitely step up to something else and ready-to-run on top of that.

I didn't see a power driver on the X2, which is $579.00 + shipping + accesories. Sherline $ 650 ++

Harbor Freight calls the X1 a micro drillpress/mill and it only had two axis.

Actually the CNC ready mill is $880 + the conversion $935 = $1815

VS

X2 according to your figure $580 (for simplicity) + $1500 = $2080

Of course you want the least amount of play in the machine.

Unless I am missing something.

[RyanSilva]

On feebay.. the average price for a used unimat complete with wooden box case, and usable condition runs for around $280+

The sherline can to..cut threads and be powerfed. The powerfeed costs 90 bucks..

Edited July 25, 2008 by RyanSilva

[Brian Fishburn]

Here's what I consider a good small lathe. Though I can use it any time I like, I still don't technically own it. This was my father's lathe. My mother would happily give it to me, but I insist on not taking it until I actually pay for it. (long story involving a family feud and LOTS of unneccessary drama)

Dad bought this in the mid 1970's, and then started customizing it to what he wanted. Even though I insist on paying for it, I think I'm getting a good buy at 600 bucks, including the bench, cabinet and all tooling.

[Ron L]

I didn't see a power driver on the X2, which is $579.00 + shipping + accesories. Sherline $ 650 ++

Harbor Freight calls the X1 a micro drillpress/mill and it only had two axis.

Actually the CNC ready mill is $880 + the conversion $935 = $1815

VS

X2 according to your figure $580 (for simplicity) + $1500 = $2080

Of course you want the least amount of play in the machine.

Unless I am missing something.

Not sure what you mean by "power driver", perhaps power feed on the X-axis? When I mentioned power feed, I meant on the lathe. Power feed on a mill is nice if you've got long, wide pieces to machine.

The Sherline site is confusing. You're right, it's about $1800 although the $935 price you quoted is for the mill and lathe. The Mill conversion is $805. The X2 conversion will only cost me about $1500 because I already have the mill. The play issue on the X2 will be moot because all the leadscrews are replaced with ballscrews for a CNC conversion. With those prices it would be silly to spend the money to convert an X2 but keep in mind the X2 will handle heavier parts than the Sherline. Depends on your needs.

Backlash is the play from moving the handwheels back and forth. Let's say you put your tool up to the rotating part on a lathe, and set the dial to zero. Backing the tool away from the part by reversing the handwheel, the wheel rotates a certain amount before the tool actually moves. That's your backlash. But - advancing the tool back to zero, regardless of backlash, will always be at the same spot. Is that a problem? It depends. If you're turning a part that's stepped, .5" one diameter then .75" the next step, then backing the wheel out .25" by looking at the wheel will only back up .2" if your backlash is .05". There are ways around this, one is by turning the whole piece in a way that you're only moving the handwheel one direction and preventing back and forth adjustments. Another is installing a DRO (digital readout) so that the DRO shows the actual tool movement and ignores the play in the handwheel. Me, I ignore the handwheel's marks and go by test fitting, eyeballing, and measuring with a caliper, which I would do anyway regardless on how accurate the machine claims to be. Of course the easiest and cheapest thing to do is reduce backlash through adjustment and/or learn to compensate for any, but I still like to check it manually as I go. Everyone has their methods and you'll learn something new every time you machine something.

[Guest Davkin]

Okay, there is some confusion here so I'll attempt to compare apples to apples so to speak. Though that's not really possible since they Sieg machines and the Sherlines are really quite different machines with somewhat difference end purposes in mind.

Okay, currently that HF 7x10 mini lathe is listed at $429.99. If you are patient and watch for sales it is possible to get them as low as $299.99 if you have a local store. I think that's what mine cost me. It comes with no accessories, however it does come with a power feed as Ron indicates. Personally I rarely use the power feed for model car stuff, those parts are just too small and I never intend to cut threads. If you do plan on using the HF lathe for other stuff then the power feed may be important to you, I did use it often on the R/C stuff. The HF lathe weighs 89#

There Sherline basic lathe lists at $575. It does not come with a power feed, that is $90 extra. However you cannot cut threads with the Sherline power feed. Sherline does offer a thread cutting attachment, $125 extra but it is hand operated, which I think is the way to go with super fine threads for model car building anyway. The Sherline lathe weighs 24#

So the comparison on the basic lathe setup to get started if you must have a power feed and be able to cut threads;

Sherline $575+90+125 = $790. HF = $429.

My opinion. I own the Sieg mini lathe, if I had to do it over I think I'd pay the extra money for the Sherline and hope to some day. Why? Apparently the tuning issue is way above my head, I've never been able to get what I consider good model car parts out of it, and getting even adequate parts has been such a hassle that I don't bother even trying anymore. The lathe has been somewhat more useful for my R/C hobby, (the parts are much bigger.) but I've never really done anything very elaborate for that hobby using this lathe either. Another issue is the size and weight of the machines. If you have to stow your machine away when not in use due to space considerations the Sherline is definately much more convenient, it weighs much less and takes much less space. This is a major consideration for me now. I moved my lathe and mill out to the garage because I got tired of having a bench taken up with machines I rarely use, that bench is now my R/C bench and I very much like this situation better. I tried the stowing away thing with the HF machines but that was such a hassle I used them even less. I'll admit, I've never used a Sherline, I can only go by the accounts of other users.

I'll also admit that I possibly lack the "machining gene" and just plain suck at this and always will. I'll definately try to borrow and try a Sherline before I buy. That is a definate factor in this, I'd strongly suggest that anyone get some time at a machine before buying anything and be sure this is something you can and want to do. Like any artistic endeavour machining requires a certain amount of natural talent to become good at it.

To onto the mill comparision:

HF currently listed at $339.00. I beleive I was able to get mine for $250 on sale. It definately does have three axis and is definately a real mill. Where this idea comes from that it's a converted drill press I have no idea but it simply is not true. It comes with no accessories. Weight - 103#

Sherline listed at $650 for the basic machine. This includes no accessories. This also is not a machine where the colum rotates, that's an extra cost option and I believe for the reasons Ron states is a bad idea, it's much better to use fixtures to hold you part at an angle instead. Weight - 36#

My opinion here is slightly different than with the lathe. I actually do like my Sieg micro mill well enough and the price difference is enough here to really make one pause. Also you can get as many accessories as you could use for modeling for all the smaller Sieg machines at littlemachineshop.com for reasonable prices, Sherline's accessories prices tend to run higher. There is the portablity issue however. The Sherline doesn't take up much less desk space but the HF is much heavier and even more awkward to move around. I don't consider the backlash to be an issue for model car parts, it's easy enough to take into account, you have have to pay attention to the dials.

I wouldn't consider buying a Sherline until I had enough money to buy one of their package deals. For $2400 you get the lathe, mill and all the accessories you are likely to ever need unless you want DRO and CNC, but they have packages for that as well. I haven't added it up but to buy and equip the Sieg 7X10 lathe and the micro drill in a similar matter probably would cost somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range.

One other issue I think bears mentioning. I only mention as a statement of fact, I don't want to start some silly political "discussion" here but for some of us this is something to consider. When you buy the Sieg machines the majority of your money goes back to China. When you buy a Sherline all of your money stays in the US. Sherline mills, lathes, accessories and even all the parts that go into them are manufactured right here in the USA.

David

[CAL]

Okay, there is some confusion here so I'll attempt to compare apples to apples so to speak. Though that's not really possible since they Sieg machines and the Sherlines are really quite different machines with somewhat difference end purposes in mind.

Okay, currently that HF 7x10 mini lathe is listed at $429.99. If you are patient and watch for sales it is possible to get them as low as $299.99 if you have a local store. I think that's what mine cost me. It comes with no accessories, however it does come with a power feed as Ron indicates. Personally I rarely use the power feed for model car stuff, those parts are just too small and I never intend to cut threads. If you do plan on using the HF lathe for other stuff then the power feed may be important to you, I did use it often on the R/C stuff. The HF lathe weighs 89#

There Sherline basic lathe lists at $575. It does not come with a power feed, that is $90 extra. However you cannot cut threads with the Sherline power feed. Sherline does offer a thread cutting attachment, $125 extra but it is hand operated, which I think is the way to go with super fine threads for model car building anyway. The Sherline lathe weighs 24#

So the comparison on the basic lathe setup to get started if you must have a power feed and be able to cut threads;

Sherline $575+90+125 = $790. HF = $429.

My opinion. I own the Sieg mini lathe, if I had to do it over I think I'd pay the extra money for the Sherline and hope to some day. Why? Apparently the tuning issue is way above my head, I've never been able to get what I consider good model car parts out of it, and getting even adequate parts has been such a hassle that I don't bother even trying anymore. The lathe has been somewhat more useful for my R/C hobby, (the parts are much bigger.) but I've never really done anything very elaborate for that hobby using this lathe either. Another issue is the size and weight of the machines. If you have to stow your machine away when not in use due to space considerations the Sherline is definately much more convenient, it weighs much less and takes much less space. This is a major consideration for me now. I moved my lathe and mill out to the garage because I got tired of having a bench taken up with machines I rarely use, that bench is now my R/C bench and I very much like this situation better. I tried the stowing away thing with the HF machines but that was such a hassle I used them even less. I'll admit, I've never used a Sherline, I can only go by the accounts of other users.

I'll also admit that I possibly lack the "machining gene" and just plain suck at this and always will. I'll definately try to borrow and try a Sherline before I buy. That is a definate factor in this, I'd strongly suggest that anyone get some time at a machine before buying anything and be sure this is something you can and want to do. Like any artistic endeavour machining requires a certain amount of natural talent to become good at it.

To onto the mill comparision:

HF currently listed at $339.00. I beleive I was able to get mine for $250 on sale. It definately does have three axis and is definately a real mill. Where this idea comes from that it's a converted drill press I have no idea but it simply is not true. It comes with no accessories. Weight - 103#

Sherline listed at $650 for the basic machine. This includes no accessories. This also is not a machine where the colum rotates, that's an extra cost option and I believe for the reasons Ron states is a bad idea, it's much better to use fixtures to hold you part at an angle instead. Weight - 36#

My opinion here is slightly different than with the lathe. I actually do like my Sieg micro mill well enough and the price difference is enough here to really make one pause. Also you can get as many accessories as you could use for modeling for all the smaller Sieg machines at littlemachineshop.com for reasonable prices, Sherline's accessories prices tend to run higher. There is the portablity issue however. The Sherline doesn't take up much less desk space but the HF is much heavier and even more awkward to move around. I don't consider the backlash to be an issue for model car parts, it's easy enough to take into account, you have have to pay attention to the dials.

I wouldn't consider buying a Sherline until I had enough money to buy one of their package deals. For $2400 you get the lathe, mill and all the accessories you are likely to ever need unless you want DRO and CNC, but they have packages for that as well. I haven't added it up but to buy and equip the Sieg 7X10 lathe and the micro drill in a similar matter probably would cost somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range.

One other issue I think bears mentioning. I only mention as a statement of fact, I don't want to start some silly political "discussion" here but for some of us this is something to consider. When you buy the Sieg machines the majority of your money goes back to China. When you buy a Sherline all of your money stays in the US. Sherline mills, lathes, accessories and even all the parts that go into them are manufactured right here in the USA.

David

Now I am even more confused We do have a HF here, but I have never seen any mills in the store. I'd sure like to see one in person now.

If I could get a decent 3 axis mini mill for $250 I'd do it in heartbeat.

I have a project that's been in limbo for 10 years because it needs some parts built that could only be done on a mill and a lathe.

But I would get a mill first probably as it seems I need that more often.

[Ron L]

Well put, Davkin, good points all around. Another thing to consider is that the basic Sherline lathe does not come with a 3-jaw chuck, almost a necessity IMO, and that's another ~$100. Apparently the handwheels can't be manually zeroed on the basic model, either.

As for size, I'm almost tempted to pick up the 4x5 micro Sieg lathe from HF someday. Only 36lbs! When UPS dropped off my 7x10 I wasn't home, and the package was left leaning against my front door. I had to take the thing apart so I could carry it to the garage before I could close my front door again. I'm no lightweight and I do weight training twice a week, but carrying 100lbs. of oddly-shaped and greasy cast iron isn't easy! The X2 mill took two people to load it into and out of my hatchback.

I almost went for a used all metal lathe from craigslist, similar to what Brian F. posted, for a mere $300. Came with lots of tools, a bench, and other stuff. Then I thought how the heck am I going to load this into my car, carry it down the driveway, and set it up inside the garage. All for turning a few model car parts - no thanks.

Read up on cnczone.com's forums, there is a dedicated area for these specific brands. You think you're confused now.

[Guest Davkin]

Another thing to consider is that the basic Sherline lathe does not come with a 3-jaw chuck, almost a necessity IMO, and that's another ~$100

Well shoot, I didn't notice that, good catch. I'd personally make sure I got the three jaw chuck before any other accessories. Much easier to live without power feed and thread cutter than a quick and easy way to hold your material!

As for size, I'm almost tempted to pick up the 4x5 micro Sieg lathe from HF someday.

That one does look interesting, but can you get many accessories for it? I wonder if it ever goes on sale.

David

[Guest Davkin]

We do have a HF here, but I have never seen any mills in the store. I'd sure like to see one in person now.

You must have a small store. Both stores here have several mills on display, even one of those funky combo mill/drill/lathe units. I can't be sure I paid $250 for mine, it was about four years ago when I bought it and they may not have it as cheaply on sale as when I bought mine now anyway.

David

Can anyone explain why I can only put up to two quotes in one reply?

[CAL]

You must have a small store. Both stores here have several mills on display, even one of those funky combo mill/drill/lathe units. I can't be sure I paid $250 for mine, it was about four years ago when I bought it and they may not have it as cheaply on sale as when I bought mine now anyway.

David

Can anyone explain why I can only put up to two quotes in one reply?

It is just the way the board is set up. it limits the number of quotes.

[old-hermit]

Ya want cheap Harry, heres cheap.

http://www.toolking.com/products/15660170....ooglebase=60170

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