Biscuitbuilder Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Remember, not the name of the engine itself, but the name of the man who designed it! Biscuitbuilder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Looks like an early Model T Ford Frontenac. Not sure who built it... you Art? Heard somewhere that the Chevrolet brothers designed those head for, of all things, Ford engines! Hahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Looks like an early Model T Ford Frontenac. Not sure who built it... you Art? Heard somewhere that the Chevrolet brothers designed those head for, of all things, Ford engines! Hahaha. Jairus, You are partly right, and partly wrong. Now, which is which? Biscuitbuilder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordairgtar Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 The Chevrolet Bros made that for the Buick racers Louis drove. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 The Chevrolet Bros made that for the Buick racers Louis drove. Maybe. Half right, half wrong, but which half? Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick F40 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Looks like an early Model T Ford Frontenac. Not sure who built it... you Art? Heard somewhere that the Chevrolet brothers designed those head for, of all things, Ford engines! Hahaha. 4 cylinder? NICE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zebm1 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) an early Meyer-Drake prototype? and now I've awakened a monster..... Edited May 30, 2008 by zebm1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 an early Meyer-Drake prototype? and now I've awakened a monster..... Sort of close, but WAAAYY off the mark! Try again! Biscuitbuilder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zebm1 Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Iz that a Drake designed engine? BTW Art, what's tha car and who's tha driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zebm1 Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Hey Art, is that Miller engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zebm1 Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Hey Art, look at what I found....Dave MacDonald losing it coming out of Turn 4....Indy 1964..right before tha conflagration.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FORDSVTPARTS Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Iz that a Drake designed engine? BTW Art, what's tha car and who's tha driver? Looks like Fangio in a Novi Indy special, 1958 or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 Hey Art, is that Miller engine? Harry Miller had nothing whatsoever to do with the engine I posted. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 Looks like Fangio in a Novi Indy special, 1958 or so? Juan Manuel Fangio, in practice, Novi Auto Air Conditioner Spl., Winfield supercharged V8 engine, Kurtis 500J chassis, 1958. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 an early Meyer-Drake prototype? and now I've awakened a monster..... Louie Meyer had yet to start driving race cars when this engine was built, and Dale Drake? Probably he was apprenticing at his father's business, JA Drake & Son, maker of the then famous Jadson intake and exhaust valves. So no, it predates the formation of Meyer-Drake by 25 years. Biscuitbuilder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I would not dare to challenge Art on anything Indy! He's forgotten more than most other experts can even remember!! My semi-educated guess on that engine is Frontenac designed by either Louis, Gaston or Arthur. It looks fairly early judging from the updraft carb and exposed flywheel assembly. Is that the engine from one of the Monroes? or earlier? Only guesses as I don't know that stuff real well. Ask me about Bugattis! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuitbuilder Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 I would not dare to challenge Art on anything Indy! He's forgotten more than most other experts can even remember!! My semi-educated guess on that engine is Frontenac designed by either Louis, Gaston or Arthur. It looks fairly early judging from the updraft carb and exposed flywheel assembly. Is that the engine from one of the Monroes? or earlier? Only guesses as I don't know that stuff real well. Ask me about Bugattis! Andy Andy, You should guess more often! Here's the right hand side of the engine, with M-O-N-R-O-E cast into the crankcase cover plate: This engine is one of several built for the 1920 Indianapolis 500 Mile Race by Louis and Arthur Chevrolet, to promote their fledgling new marque, the Frontenac automobile. Needing sponsorship funds, they provided a couple of engines, and cars to go with them, to a company called 'Monroe" (But I don't think it was Monroe of shock absorber fame). Frontenac failed as an automaker, in the deep recession of 1920-21, but the brothers carried on (although without Gaston), but the brothers managed to win two Indianapolis 500's, in 1920 with one of these 4-cylinder engines (car was the Monroe Special, driven by Gaston Chevrolet) and in 1921, with a straight-8 powered car, engine similar in concept to the one I show here) driven by Tommy Milton, who would go on to become the first multiple winner at Indianapolis (1921 and 1923). Gaston Chevrolet was killed later in 1920 while leading a race on the former Beverly Hills Board Track superspeedway in California. Arthur Chevrolet adapted at least one of these engines to air-cooled, and tried marketing it as the Chevrolair Engine, for aircraft use, but it's unknown how many of those were sold (the 20's were dominated by thousands of leftover WW-I airplanes, being sold for only a few hundred dollars). Of course, in 1923, the two remaining Chevrolet brothers, still under the mantra of Frontenac Motors, turned to speed equipment for the Model T Ford, seeing their handiwork run Indy that year, under the sponsorship of Barber-Warnock, the Indianapolis Ford Dealership at the time. One of those cars finished 5th, bested only by three Duesenbergs and one Miller. An interesting sidelight of the 1920 Indianapolis race was that of the 4 or 5 Frontenac/Monroe cars that started, all but one crashed due to breaking their steering arms, which had been outsourced by Gaston to a local foundry in Indianapolis, over the objections of Louis. The steering arms, once cast, were to have been treated to forging for strength, but apparently this didn't happen. After the race, in their Gasoline Alley garage, a heated brotherly argument broke out, when Gaston discovered that Champion Spark Plugs had been installed in his car, rather than the brand that he'd been offered money to run. "Those things might have failed, Gaston is said to have shouted at brother Louis, to which Louis shouted back "You mean like your damned steering arms?". As Louis roared out this, he gave the steering arm on Gaston's winning car a savage kick--at which the steering arm broke and clattered to the floor. History does not record if that ended the argument though. Biscuitbuilder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zebm1 Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Way to go Andy! ! ! High Fives..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zebm1 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 OK Art, ya got me on that Flat-four.... now I got another water-cooled Flat-four for ya....but this one made it into production.... Name the manufacurer and the designer of this engine Art. And it ain't a Volkswagen...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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