What defines a rat rod?

[Harry P.]

What did Jairus charge you to build a model of his idea?

[FloridaBoy]

Cranky,

You are one incredible modeler!!! And from South Florida at that!!!! Do I know you? There is a contest tomorrow Saturday, Nov 22 and 23, at the Deerfield Beach Railroad Station right off I-95 which starts early Saturday, and finishes Sunday noon. Deerfield Beach is right north of Ft Lauderdale and Pompano, just take Hillsboro Blvd WEST exit 42 or 43, the station is one light on the left just west of I-95, but you have to cross the tracks and make a U turn at the courthouse and turn back, just before Denny's and the contest is on the south side of the building. If you enter, there is a nominal fee which allows so many cars, display is free.

I will be there selling off my excess kits, and I sure hope to see you there, if you can make it. I went through most of your album, and even if you don't want to enter, I am asking you to bring your Frankie Salvage, and fabulous 49 Mercs, for display.

I would certainly like to meet you and see your work. They are too great to sit at home.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Dr. Cranky]

Hey, Ken, unfortunately I am up in North Florida right now and won't be back down South until the Holidays. Thanks for the kind words. And please keep me posted to shows and club meetings (I'm assuming there is a club down there) over the summer months.

I think over the years many builders had built some great stuff off Jairu's ideas . . . and he is generous when it comes to helping out during the building process.

[Robert]

Does it need to be a Model T, '32 Ford and the like? Does every square inch need to be rust? Should it just be on red wheels with whitewalls?

The subject is so vague that "anything goes" or are there guide lines?

"Rat Rod" is a merely a newly developed name for the original hot rod style of the early 1950's.

[Robert]

Dave has it 100% right. While some rods & customs of the 50's might have been in primer while being driven before getting their final paint jobs, & did of course utilize used parts as well as new ones, (depending on one's budget), the hotrodders of that era certainly didn't deliberately build crappy looking, rusted out, illogical & ridiculous "hot rods", (I'm sorry, but I can't even call some of that trash hot rods, that's an insult to the term), for the sake of following a trend.

Some of those old schol rodders would be ticked off if you insulted their work by lumping it in with the hacked up garbage too often being passed off as rods these days.

Robert's comment is a prime example of why those of us that aren't into rat rods often get so annoyed by them. As more & more people try to pass off that junk as being a replica of 50's style rods, the average person is going to be led to believe that this is fact. Look into some of Andy Southard's books on rods & customs of the 50's & 60's, (Andy was a rodder, customizer & a photographer, & has published 3-4 books of his photos of actual rods & customs taken in those eras), to see what real rods & customs looked like back in the day. You will not find a bunch of rusted out, mismatched, poorly thrown together junk for the sake of effect.

If you like rat rods that's cool. But please stop trying to pass off those things as being representative of real "old school" rods!!!!!! It's just not true & I for one am tired of seeing it passed off as the "truth"!! Learn the facts, get it right, & stop making the claims of "that's how it was back then" out of either laziness or a lack of knowledge & factual information!!!

I suppose it's just a matter of ones own opinion. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. lol

[RodBurNeR]

well without going deep into what i already know, i recently gather that "rat rod" was a term used for a hot rod built back in the day that was rusty, didn't look too nice.....kinda "ratty". This was ALWAYS because it was in progress or the owner didn't have the money to get it painted and buy nicer parts. Never did them guys sit around for hours trying to put a "nostaligic" or "retro" look to their rods.....it was back then, so it was NEW to be building these hot rods. These guys didn't hunt around for "old school" parts.....everything available was/IS old and matched the era. Yes many engines , drivetrains , mechanical parts etc. DID come from the junkyards, but they didn't run around picking out the worst looking parts , they bought the most functional, nicest looking and reliable they could find. After buying an engine from a junkyard, it got cleaned up.....many times rebuilt and some new speed parts added. Remember, this was the "throw away" age of automobiles.....whole cars were about worthless when they got 60,000 miles or so and plenty of scratches and faded or chipping paint, worn tires , cracked glass breaks going out etc.... These kinds of cars were "embarrassing" to be seen in, so people bought new cars and sold the old "beaters" often times to kids and young guys for nothing just to get them off their lawn. YOU BET lot's of "used" looking hot rods were built back then and didn't make it to the paint shop or get all new chrome accessories for the engine! BUT.....they didn't sport JUNK on them to look cool. You didn't see chainsaw chains holding the rad shell up, didn't see mom's kitchen chairs with the legs cut off for bucket seats (unless this is a farm hot rod to play in the field with?) , didn't see road signs as floorboards (oh and nobody drove around with nothing but chassis under their feet)......all these mods done to "rat rods" of today is on purpose to be wild, noticed and obscene....it's a rebellion against anything shiny or clean.....against the "other side" of rodding in which guys are preserving the originality of the old school and the "please don't touch" trailer queens.

All i have to say about rat rods is they are NOT replicating the old school of hot rodding known as "Traditional"

TRADITIONAL

Main Entry: tra·di·tion Pronunciation: \trə-ˈdi-shən\ Function: noun 1 a: an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom) b: a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable2: the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction3: cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions4: characteristic manner, method, or style <in the best liberal tradition>— tra·di·tion·al \-ˈdish-nəl, -ˈdi-shə-n^əl\ adjective

I hope this has helped define rat rod for you.

By the way I am 34 and didn't need to be there to see the difference

Edited November 23, 2008 by awbcrazy

[Jairus]

Wow!

Big red letters.

Actually I have to disagree. Rat Rods, at least when they were first identified as such, were indeed representative of what was built back in the day.

For example:

This rod was photographed in the summer of 1951. Of course we up here in Oregon do things differently... and most of us in this depressed economy of the Willamette Valley couldn't afford chrome and miles deep paint like that found on the streets of L.A. But rods here actually did look bolted together, slapped together and dangerously similar to what Rat Rods looked like in 2000.

However, as I mentioned in my earlier post, they have "morphed into a caricature of late"! Like most trends, builders always want to push the edge and raise the bar. If one skull is good then two must be better seems to be the American way.

The above image (Sorry if I crossed the line with respect to copy-write rules but a point had to be made) was published in a book written by Albert Drake. Remember him? He grew up in Oregon. He has a world re-known automotive parts business and he published a book back in 1982. The book, "Street Was Fun In '51" covers Albert’s youth and is the subject of what Hot Rodding was like in the Northwest in the early 50's. Maybe 50 total pictures along with names of car owners and stories are represented. Many of them almost exactly like what is now termed a Nostalgia Rod or Traditional Rod... and yes, even what is currently termed a Rat Rod! complete with miss-matched wheels, primer, rust and .... a complete and total passion for street rodding!

Mark, your viewpoint is your viewpoint. Albert Drake's viewpoint is HIS view point. It is an opinion. We all have them so maybe you should hold off on the declarative statements and large red letters. Because it is up to interpretation with regards to what was what back in the 50’s, just as what is a Rat Rod now and... what is not.

Respectfully submitted,

Edited November 23, 2008 by Jairus

[Harry P.]

Hoo boy!!!

Hey guys... maybe next we can debate what is or is not a muscle car???

[old-hermit]

Hoo boy!!!

Hey guys... maybe next we can debate what is or is not a muscle car???

Don't even go there Harry !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jairus]

On that, Muscle Cars, Mark and I agree!

[Harry P.]

Ummmm.. Mark, I was kidding!!!

I've seen enough "what is a muscle car" posts to know that there is not, and will never be, one definition that will be accepted by everyone. That's simply an argument with no solution.

Are the original "Rocket" powered Oldsmobiles muscle cars? Are the Hudsons that tore up the track in the early 50s muscle cars? Is the hemi-powered '55 Chrysler 300 a muscle car? What about a '57 Bel Air with FI? Is a Corvette a muscle car, or a sports car... or neither one? The list of potential "muscle cars" depends on your own personal definition. And even the "official" definition you mentioned is still only one man's opinion, after all..

Ok, now that that's settled... I ask you this:

What was the first automobile? (Let's see you answer that one definitely!)

And the Cugnot steam tractor doesn't count!!!

[RodBurNeR]

Wow!

Big red letters.

Actually I have to disagree. Rat Rods, at least when they were first identified as such, were indeed representative of what was built back in the day.

For example:

This rod was photographed in the summer of 1951. Of course we up here in Oregon do things differently... and most of us in this depressed economy of the Willamette Valley couldn't afford chrome and miles deep paint like that found on the streets of L.A. But rods here actually did look bolted together, slapped together and dangerously similar to what Rat Rods looked like in 2000.

However, as I mentioned in my earlier post, they have "morphed into a caricature of late"! Like most trends, builders always want to push the edge and raise the bar. If one skull is good then two must be better seems to be the American way.

The above image (Sorry if I crossed the line with respect to copy-write rules but a point had to be made) was published in a book written by Albert Drake. Remember him? He grew up in Oregon. He has a world re-known automotive parts business and he published a book back in 1982. The book, "Street Was Fun In '51" covers Albert's youth and is the subject of what Hot Rodding was like in the Northwest in the early 50's. Maybe 50 total pictures along with names of car owners and stories are represented. Many of them almost exactly like what is now termed a Nostalgia Rod or Traditional Rod... and yes, even what is currently termed a Rat Rod! complete with miss-matched wheels, primer, rust and .... a complete and total passion for street rodding!

Mark, your viewpoint is your viewpoint. Albert Drake's viewpoint is HIS view point. It is an opinion. We all have them so maybe you should hold off on the declarative statements and large red letters. Because it is up to interpretation with regards to what was what back in the 50's, just as what is a Rat Rod now and... what is not.

Respectfully submitted,

not sure if you disagreed with me or Mark or? Either way, that is your right to do so. Yes many cars looked like that back in the day and were referred to as rat rods. The thing where we have crossed wires on this subject is the fact rat rods have become a fad and are NOT what they used to be. What we have today is a rolling peice of contemporary art? Maybe that is what it should be lol

This is certainly not something you would have seen back then....

That's just one example of why we are saying they are not representing the old school correctly. It's hard for me to swallow the words rat rod anymore because it seems anyone who paints a car flat black and puts red rims and whitewalls has built a rat rod..... it's like buying a brand name......hot rodding cannot be bought....it lives in you.

also respectfully,

[RodBurNeR]

ok i will leave the muscle cars and all that to you guys, have fun!

[Gregg]

I LOVE THIS FORUM!!!!!

[Jairus]

I LOVE THIS FORUM!!!!!

then why don't 'cha marry it...

(nener, nener, nener! )

[Dr. Cranky]

I think quite a few of you are sufering from styrene cabin fever!!!!

[Jairus]

P.S. This is the book I was speaking about.

Note where I purchased it by the sticker on the cover (Salem Speed Shop 1985) and check out the latest issue of Hot Rod Magazine. (Jan '09)