southpier Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 if I post something - picture, quotation, drawing, whatever, is there some bearing on the moral compass indicating I should credit the creator? not a copyright issue, but just common courtesy. maybe it's a rhetorical question. I have to wonder. . . . .
Harry P. Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 Makes sense to me that if you know who the creator is, a quick mention would be a nice gesture.
comp1839 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 is it an issue that you, yourself are in question of? or is this something someone else did and you're once again beating around the bush instead of being a big boy and saying what's on your mind? makes sense to me, that you should just say what's on your mind rather than this hypothetical bull.
southpier Posted June 5, 2013 Author Posted June 5, 2013 i'm talking in generality bull. "painting with a broad brush" is a nice metaphor. usually if I have something to say, I will.
comp1839 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 obviously, you have something to say because............you did. i'm pretty sure copyright law does govern EVERYTHING you asked about. pictures , drawings, whatever. some one as intelligent as yourself surely knows that or you wouldn't have made the comment. personally, i find when people speak in generalties and metaphors, they're trolling for something or stirring the pot. please, feel free to tell me i'm incorrect.
Deano Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 if I post something - picture, quotation, drawing, whatever, is there some bearing on the moral compass indicating I should credit the creator? not a copyright issue, but just common courtesy. maybe it's a rhetorical question. I have to wonder. . . . . To me, this is one of those "If you have to ask, you already know the answer" sorta things unless, of course, your Moral Compass is broken.
southpier Posted June 5, 2013 Author Posted June 5, 2013 if something is copyrighted, the originator took the trouble to do so to protect it. if he did not copyright it, does that give me free rein to present it and give implication it's my work? I think the declination of true North has changed over time, and things once never considered acceptable have come to be commonplace. we have become immune, and I really don't think that's a positive.
southpier Posted June 5, 2013 Author Posted June 5, 2013 To me, this is one of those "If you have to ask, you already know the answer" sorta things unless, of course, your Moral Compass is broken. I think that's a fair understanding of 'rhetorical'
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission? Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, instruction, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See FL 102, Fair Use, and Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians. In brief: "Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes The nature of the copyrighted work The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work" Edited June 5, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
Steven Zimmerman Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 This is one of my favorite sites. Having said that, I am plain getting TIRED of seeing someone post a question and getting CRUCIFIED by all you self righteouus poop heads on here. Can't you just be.....NICE ?
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) if something is copyrighted, the originator took the trouble to do so to protect it. if he did not copyright it, does that give me free rein to present it and give implication it's my work? I think the declination of true North has changed over time, and things once never considered acceptable have come to be commonplace. we have become immune, and I really don't think that's a positive. "Copyright" exists AUTOMATICALLY on any creative work...it's just a lot harder to PROVE who owns it if all the paperwork isn't done. And NO, you have no legal right to present anyone's work as your own, and certainly no ethical right. There ARE conditions regarding "fair use" of copyrighted material, that I posted above...including a link to the relevant Federal law. There is ONE loophole of which I'm aware. Some employment contracts specify that anything produced by an individual during the period of employment is agreed to be the property of the employer, with the employer owning the copyright. Lots of lawsuits have been fought over the results of this one. Edited June 5, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
Jon Cole Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) This is one of my favorite sites. Having said that, I am plain getting TIRED of seeing someone post a question and getting CRUCIFIED by all you self righteouus poop heads on here. Can't you just be.....NICE ? X2. Shall we now burn him at the stake for having the gall to ask? Yeesh. Edited June 5, 2013 by Jon Cole
southpier Posted June 5, 2013 Author Posted June 5, 2013 How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission? Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, instruction, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports. There are no legal rules permitting the use of a specific number of words, a certain number of musical notes, or percentage of a work. Whether a particular use qualifies as fair use depends on all the circumstances. See FL 102, Fair Use, and Circular 21, Reproductions of Copyrighted Works by Educators and Librarians. In brief: Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes The nature of the copyrighted work The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work i think this touches on the leagal issue, which is exactly Not what my original question was. how much "moral obligation" do i have to reveal the originator of something i post. for example, i see a great looking '32 Ford model. i post a picture, even with out caption or text. some might assume i actually built the model. i didn't say i did or did not. the question becomes: is that fair? and specifically, to the person who did build it?
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) i think this touches on the leagal issue, which is exactly Not what my original question was. how much "moral obligation" do i have to reveal the originator of something i post. for example, i see a great looking '32 Ford model. i post a picture, even with out caption or text. some might assume i actually built the model. i didn't say i did or did not. the question becomes: is that fair? and specifically, to the person who did build it? The copyright law concept of "fair use" exists, like MOST western-world law, as a derivative of common western MORAL and ETHICAL precepts of long ago. They became "laws" in large part because people rarely live by moral or ethical guidelines...the majority have to live under fear of reprisal, in order to do-the-right-thing. If there's ANY possibility in YOUR mind that a piece of work might be mistakenly attributed to YOU, then YOU have a MORAL obligation to state the origin of the work. It doesn't matter one whit what the "community" standards are, no matter WHAT community we're referring to. There are no gray areas in right-and-wrong. YOU need to be the final arbiter of what constitutes "fair" and "moral obligation" in your OWN mind based on your OWN values. Edited June 5, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
southpier Posted June 5, 2013 Author Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) following this logic, who was the architect for these diagrams http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76132&hl= I would love to get a drafting program - without the cost of AutoCAD software - that could do this. or did I overlook something? dave, still with us? Edited June 5, 2013 by southpier
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 (edited) So, why didn't you just say what the problem was in the first place? I have absolutely no idea who did either of them, nor do I care. They were readily available and appropriate illustrations to the answer to the question, free to anyone who has the brains to look, and who makes the effort. I pulled them off the internet and offered them here as illustrations, under the "fair use" definitions of "teaching" and "research", which agree with my OWN, morality-based definition of "fair use". It never in my wildest dreams occurred to me that they'd be construed by some idiot as my own work, OR that I was trying to take credit as such, if that's what you're implying. I post a LOT of illustrated tech answers, and anyone who would assume I'd produce all of the graphic materials MYSELF, not being a PAID CONSULTANT for this site, would be suffering from severe fuzzy headedness. My only contribution is in the editing of thousands of possible illustrations down to those that are clear, appropriate for a particular question, and technically correct. Most of the photos, pie charts, graphs and line-drawings I use for explaining technical answers to people who ask questions HERE, including many questions I've answered for YOU, are pulled from the net and re-used here the same way. I also use photos drawn from my OWN library, taken MYSELF, when I have the appropriate material. I don't bother with "this photo is mine, mine, mine !!!" any more than I attribute every graphic I draw from elsewhere. Furthermore, when I've posted lengthy quotes from published materials, I almost always attribute them. I ALWAYS separate quoted material (written) and surround it in quotes, which should be sufficient notice I'm quoting (for anyone who made it through elementary school). There have been SEVERAL instances where I've posted pix of other folk's MODELING or 1:1 CAR work, and I'VE ALWAYS posted a DISCLAIMER to avoid any mis-applied credit. FOR INSTANCE: I posted this, where I also call out several times THIS IS NOT MY WORK. http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62959 FOR INSTANCE: http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61153 Tell you what though...in future, I'll disclaim EVERY graphic or photo i didn't produce myself. In closing, some of MY work HAS BEEN claimed to be that of other people, intentionally. I know how it makes me feel, and I'd never do that to another human being...but based on MY OWN moral compass pointing at "WRONG DIRECTION". Edited June 6, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
comp1839 Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 still here joe. i gotta hand it to you. that was a masterful job. you reeled in steve and jon like fish on a hook. jeez, they even called me a self righteous poophead. (wow, guys , that really stung). you had bill looking up info that you were going to push back down his own throat. and you proved me correct. i'm having a wonderful day. i don't think it gets any better than this. thanks!!
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