dub Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 (edited) Okay, I'll admit I really like rat rods and traditional rods a lot. I have a few kits to make some happen without too many purchases, if any, at all. After reviewing the pile, I decided to start on the AMT 32 Phaeton 2n1. Why not do a four door, four seater rat? Besides I can give the others being built right now some air and some space to breathe. Here's the frame when I started: Now right about here, I started to get pretty happy with my progress when I noticed something wrong... Yeah, the angle I cut the frame is backwards! Oh well, nothing a bit of CA and a file can't fix so I can try again: ;) Edited November 19, 2007 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 First thing I noticed before I read your caption! Ok, remove those motor mounts unless you are using the aftermarket kit engine because they are wrong for the flathead. ah... your going to use the flathead, right? Go man go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share Posted November 19, 2007 (edited) All right, now I've got the hang of it. Lever shocks are so cool! Here's an early mock-up with the body: Edited November 19, 2007 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share Posted November 19, 2007 First thing I noticed before I read your caption! Ok, remove those motor mounts unless you are using the aftermarket kit engine because they are wrong for the flathead. ah... your going to use the flathead, right? Go man go! Wow, they kitted both engines to work on the same mounts! I have plenty of reference pics to pore over for the proper set-up. I do want to use the flathead, but it is bone-stock single carb, no aftermarket hop-up parts or anything. Multiple carbs and different heads would be nice. I may just pick up another kit with a better flathead in it. I could use one of the two bangers I have..... Thanks for the advice/cheering already. I was expecting to see input later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Jonathan, that's looking great . . . I like it . . . and the mock up already is showing great personality. Keep it going. The only advice I can give you with the frame is to use liquid plastic weld (I used Tamiya Ultra thin) because personally I like for the plastic to really melt and stick to itself . . . makes me feel like the frame is extra strong this way. I'm sure super glue does a great job too . . . So far so good. Keep it going . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobss396 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Good placement for the front "Z" section, makes the engine installation easier. I would suggest drilling through the added section and into the chassis, insert a piece of wire and CA glue it in place. It makes a much stronger joint. Looks like a great project, post more progress pix! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Bob, that's a great idea . . . anything to make the frame stronger, this way you don't have to be too careful in handling the model later . . . it's important in terms of feeling confident . . . I learned that from Jairus . . . if you pin it and hold it together right, the thing will travel 3000 miles on muleback and not break!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share Posted November 19, 2007 Thanks for the advice Virgil and Bob. The plastic weld I've attempted to use in the past didn't work very well. I couldn't get the two pieces to stick at all. I guess my hands aren't the device to keep them together while curing! The pin trick will be implemented, thank you. It took me a while to visualize how, but once it hit me, I was like DUH!! (two short horizontal pins per side) Here are some more progress pics: Much better with the front inner firewall trimmed for the rails. Here's a rolling mockup: Looking at this pic, I think it's low enough: Looking at this one, I don't think so: It could just be a lack of a floor to block out light under it, but I just might have to Z the rear too... Any thoughts? The advice is appreciated and welcome! I'm still pretty new to much of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyThree Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I like the rake you have going on, but it does seem a little high still. maybe even a body drop would work out. Looking good so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 If you Z the rear, it will drop much lower but then you have to be careful to achieve the stance you like . . . I think you are making great progress . . . it's looking killer, buddy . . . keep it going . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Looking good and perfect stance! The correct motor mounts were actually part of the cooling system. Those cast in the kit were simply a way for the model engineers to make the mold interchangeable between the two motors, but they are not correct for the flathead! The Flathead motor did NOT have any such mounts in this location. The correct motor mounting holes in the frame were on the top of the front cross-member just like this! The arrow shows the actual mounts. The bolts go through a rubber bushing which helped to prevent vibrations from transmitting to the frame. The water-pumps on a 1932 Flathead were mounted in the heads and sucked the hot water into the radiator. This practice continued until 1937 when they were moved down to the lower block where they sucked the cooler water from the radiator and thus lengthening the life of the pump itself. However, in the beginning... the lower water inlet was cast in-conjunction with the motor mounts as shown: This pic shows the later 1937 through 1953 Standard water pump/front motor mount. The photo was taken while the pump was rotated almost 90 degrees from normal. Pumps left and right were unique and not interchangeable. Hope this helps some.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted November 19, 2007 Author Share Posted November 19, 2007 Ya, I'm starting to think vintage smallblock now. If I do accurate mounts for the flathead, it's going to be tipped up because the cross-member is much higher now. The kit has one and I do have the AMT 60 Vette for hop-up parts..... This is stalled until I can figure it out because I have cut the firewall for the tranny and I have to have it for mock-up. I'll have it figured out by tonight when I'll do more on it. Oh yeah, " thank you for your support " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul_Perez Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Jonathan, That's looking really good. The weather in CA is almost rat rod, military and Sci-Fi time, so I'll be breaking out the rat rod goodies pretty soon. I recently bought a couple of the Revell parts-pack Caddy engines that I want to build into a rat. Keep going an posting pics!! Thanks, Raul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) Here's a quick update. I was surprised to find my supply drawer already had the wire for pinning the frame. I don't remember buying it, but I'm sure I had something different in mind when I did. I figured for those following along that haven't done pinning, I would show my first attempt at it. I started by drilling a hole all the way through the new section into the frame: Then I found the right size wire and checked fit. Perfect! Now I stuck the wire into the CA tube to get some on it. Push the wire home all the way again and grab the cutters. File it smooth and you'll never see it under the primer. I hope this helps someone! Any additions on the procedure are welcome as always. Let me know if I am doing anything way wrong. Now back to work on the engine. I think I have the solution after opening about seven different kits to scavenge parts. This is the fun part! :rolleyes: Edited November 20, 2007 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 Here's another quickie update. I have my grille shell mocked-up and I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) OK, one last update for the night. I have the engine picked out. It is the small block from the 66 Nova kit. I'm going to use the Vette valve covers and make some headers, or at least some zoomies. As for induction, I'll keep you in suspense until the next update! Pinning is such a great idea. It's easy to find places to use it! The gap between the torque tube and the tail housing is perfect. I still have room for a flange. Oh BTW, those mounting tabs are the ones from the kit's Ford small block. Well, that's how she sits now. I am working the inner firewall before I crash for the night, but y'all can wait until the AM for any more! Edited November 20, 2007 by dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul_Perez Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) Good idea pinning the frame, Jonathan. That's something we typically forget to do while we're building, only to add it later during a repair. Thanks for the reminder and keep up the good work, Raul Edited November 20, 2007 by Raul_Perez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 It's looking real good, buddy. You are making great progress . . . perhaps you have been drinking my brand of coffee!!! I can't remember if you have already made a decidion not to Z the back of the frame. Rememeber that you can make this sucker go lower, if you want it to . . . Looking forward to more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldsklMike Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Jonathan, Looking good so far.. If you want to get it in the weeds some or alot more try this.. 1st- Where the front spring sits in the x-brace of the frame, cut a slot open in the x-brace so the spring goes threw it. Then glue the spring in place. When dry cut the spring off thats above the x-brace. Then just put a thin piece of plasitc sheet over it to close it up.. 2nd- You did a good job on your Z in front of the engine, you can do another one behind or at the firewall.. I wouldn't do it as high as the front, maybe just cut and stack the frame like Jairus did in his how-to.. 3rd- The fast and simple way.... Just cut the spring off and glue the straight axle to the frame Hope this helps, I use 1 and 2 with any traditional rod i build. And deffenitly do a "Z" in the rear. Don't worry about tranny clerance from the channeling (bodydrop) just cut it open like this... Hit me up if ya need help? Later Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrol52 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Looking real good. I like the stance. Definitely can't go wrong with a 327 and 4-speed . I'd run headers and some short pieces of tubing to possibly re-direct the noise ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 That's great work, Mike. Man, I'm loving this thread and it hasn't even turned the first page yet!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jairus Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Virgil, don't look now but it IS the second page.... Mike, beautiful little street rods! You definitely got the "look" right , not to mention that your photography is excellent. Thanks for posting them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobss396 Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 These rods are killing me, yow. Great tutorial on the chassis pinning. I've used everything from brass brads to pieces of paper clip. I tend to have a heavy hand when sanding things so every bit of strength helps. An unsupported joint like that can sag under the weight of the model over time. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I saw that J, which is why I wanted to be tongue-in-cheek about it!!! Suddenly there's a hubbub of rat rod activing at the MCM, which is great . . . it helps loosen us all up!!! I remember at last year's BAMA show I told Steve Boutte he needed to give rat-rodding a try . . . he didn't say anything, but I'm sure he's been thinking about it. Some builders are really addicted to the slick, glossy, shiny, immaculate paint jobs, which I respect, but you won't dance until you build one of these rat rods!!! It's like going sky diving, jumping off the plane, and then remember that one: you didn't take any lessons, and two: you forgot your parachutte!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Oh, one more thing, most of my rat rodding ideas (specially painting ideas) comes from the fact I am a big fan of Kow Yokoyama's work . . . the man who invented and designed the SFS-3, Nitto, and Maschinen Krieger . . . If you are interested, you can get lost this morning at this site: http://www.maschinenkrueger.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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