Test Driving the TDR 427 Roadster

[Darin Bastedo]

The Body looks god except for the wierd dogleg in the door cutline near the cowl. this should be straighter. This should be an easy fix at this stage though.

Here is a shot of the correct cutline on CSX3112

[GrandpaMcGurk]

Here are a few tips from the Madd Fabricator.......

When initially doing the body prep sanding, DO NOT use any sandpaper coarser than 280-320 grit as you will either sand completely through the thin gel coat surface or leave deep gouges in the surface which will then require additional primer/surfacer. This only creates additional unnecessary work for yourself.

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During this intial body work DO NOT completely cut out the door and drivers compartment openings !!!!!! The reason for this will be explained in an upcoming post.

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I would also suggest that you use only wet/dry type paper, and preferably WET. You will notice that there are some molds lines visible and you may use the 280 grit to initially remove these. Make sure you sand everything with 400 grit or finer prior to applying the primer filler coats and before any color coats of paint.

Any spots where you feel that you need to use spot putty, I suggest you make sure the surface is roughed up and hit with a light coat of primer filler before using the putty. Remember any lacquer based putty will shrink over time, so do not try to fill any deep areas with it. If you find an area that needs a significant amount of filler, I suggest you use a two part putty like Euro Glaze or any good polyester type filler. Also use final prep and tack rags faithfully. Doing so will help you create the type of finish you're hoping for.

[LR3]

Jumping right in I sanded down the mold lines. Some show a very slight indentation that I will to smooth over later. I moved a little too quickly on the trunk lid. I started beveling the underside edge and sanding at the front before fitting the lid at the back.

I should have seated the rear of the lid first and moved up from there due to the truncated shape. Right now the lid sits a little low at the front left because I sanded too much off the underside, I will build up the underside edge to raise it back up.

I also have a little more gap at the sides than I should have because I started fitting from the wider front. As the rear was seated the lid moved forward and the narrower rear edges moved into a slightly wider area.

The key here is to sand the inside of the lid at the back until it seats properly then move forward sanding the sides and finally sand the front of the lid.

As can be seen in the photos there is a cast in rain gutter (lip) around the openings, these could also be sanded down a little in areas where the lid needs to adjusted.

Being new at this I had been apprehensive of cutting out the required body areas so worked on the trunk lid and hood first. I found it really is easier to work everything once the body is cut out.

I made rough cuts with a Dremel. Later I will use the Dremel as a grinding tool to clean up the edges. Using safety glasses and a dust mask here is important. Some fiberglass bits do fly around when using a cutting disk.

Don dropped me a note indicating he would have used a jewelers saw for cutting out these sections.

I was able to do a better job of fitting the trunk deck and hood now that I had access to both sides of the parts when positioning.

[LR3]

I have pretty much finished cutting and sanding the body but I will not prime it until the new sheet metal arrives. I found it critical to leave a little meat on all the parts then use sanding boards to adjust the final fit.

In the mean time I can pass on these suggestions from Tim about handling the fiberglass body:

"The big thing is to leave a portion of the "cut away" section at the top of the door opening. If you cut this part away the body will become very weak at the door opening. Leave this reinforcing piece in place while finishing the body and remove it only when you are about to mount the body to frame for the last time.

I found that using the fiber reinforced dremel cutting wheels works good for cutting fiberglass. Cut out the scrap sections with the cutoff wheel, leaving about 1/16" excess from the final body. Then come back with a dremel sanding drum and clean up the 1/16" excess you left. Use a good coarse wheel and it should eat through the glass pretty quick. Lastly, when you get everything sanded back to the final body, tilt your dremel and grind away the glass at an angle under the final body panel. Beveling this "meat" of the fiberglass back will help hide the thickness of the glass from the final product. It will make the body appear thinner at the body edges where the observer will be able to see the thickness".

(Note: From my last post you can see I left a lot more meat which is why I wound up in a cloud of dust grinding it away.)

"Lastly, flip the body over and with a flat sanding board, bevel back the bottom edge of the "meat" at the very bottom body line. This is important because it will aid in getting the body to fit over the cowl hoop. Sand these bottom edges back till they are pretty much a knife-edge at the finished body surface at the bottom edge. Don't sand away anything that is in grey gelcoat, just the raw fiberglass."

I was chicken to sand the bottom to a knife-edge. We will see later if that is really necessary.

The Madd Fabricator offered this suggestion for the smaller openings:

"As for the air duct openings use a drill and very carefully open them up and then use a round fine toothed file, and sand paper wrapped around a dowel rod or stick that's just slightly smaller than the opening, to finish them off."

One area the needs special attention is the side vent. Grinding to the edge of the opening makes a pretty good vent but to be perfect one might want to scribe inside the kit RP material lover holder and sand to that mark.

I couldn't wait to try the body on the chassis. Things might look a little wobbly as everything is just pushed together.

[LR3]

Time to set the body aside and begin the final sheet metal assembly. I am hoping somehow I can develop a hood hinge in the mean time. The radiator is close to the hood where a hinge would normally mount so the hinge arms may be restricted. We will know more after the sheet metal is installed. The body may have more clearance then.

I tried a hinge with small displacement but the rain gutter interfered with the front of the hood. The solution may be to have a much narrower hinge or to have longitudinal arms attaching the hood though styrene tubes so the hood can slide back as it is opened then slide forward to rest on the body in its final position.

[LR3]

The production sheet metal kit now includes a good-sized piece of extra metal for experimentation or if a part should be accidentally trashed, a new part can be produced with a pair of scissors.

I made a new tunnel side with this pair of hobby scissors.

The sheet metal parts have rough edges, some more than others. Here is an example of a worst case.

The edge can be cleaned up with a micro file by filing the edges at an angle. It only takes a few seconds per part.

The parts drawings are clear and detailed as to where to bend.

Just to review: When you start to bend the parts, you will find that you get a much cleaner and sharper bend if you score the outside of the bend with an exacto knife.

I found it important to double-check which side of a part to scribe (remember if you scribe both sides of a part accidentally it will probably break with a 90 degree bend.) I then marked front or back on the drawing before bending because at my age I don't remember things very long.

Most of the scribe lines will be on the back of the part but as there are tabs it is easy to see where they go. Having a fine point sharpie available for marking helps where there is no tab for reference like in the back mid step of the drawing above. See below the actual step. On this particular part there is a bend sequence. It is best to bend the rear step before bending the tabs.

I will photograph each bent part for clarity. There is a gray scale image page by each drawing but some of the gray scale images are hard to decipher.

[LR3]

I mocked up the interior sub-assembly using masking tape to ensure all the bent surfaces fit as prescribed. This allowed me to spot any areas that might need adjustment.

As the inside of the cockpit will be black, I masked off mating areas so I would have metal-to-metal surfaces for gluing.

The rest of the pictures are the mounting sequence. It is much easier to use thick CA glue and a kicker spray rather then thin CA which can lock up before you have pieces properly aligned.

Note: there are locating pins on the chassis floor and cockpit back brace. They can just be seen in the pictures. These are to be sanded down so they will barely show when the metal is in place. The nice thing is they will be white after sanding which helps them to be seen when placing the metal.

I also think you might want to glue in the rear drive shaft universal joint at this time. The drive tunnel is long and thin and the drive shaft rides above the rear frame cross member. I managed to install it after mounting the engine much later in the build but it was a fiddly job.

Edited May 31, 2011 by LR3

[LR3]

The next sequence of drawings covers the firewall area. It begins with the front cover of the drive tunnel, however I think this piece could be left until the foot boxes are mounted. Having the foot box seams tight will be very important, as we will see shortly.

Next is the very important pedal box. The bends here must be crisp as it butts against the ridged floorboard and partially establishes the front of the firewall. One can get tangled up with the bend sequence because there is an aft tab that should be left till last plus the front and back have to be folded up after the sides and side tabs are bent.

The pedal assembly, brake master cylinders and the hydraulic clutch reservoir are supplied from RP material. A few trial fits are in order before trying to glue things down. I chose to mount the brake and clutch parts with 1 mm bolts rather than the 00-90 called out in the drawings.

[LR3]

The cockpit sides are straight forward and slip into place handily.

The foot boxes require the most attention as the engine is a snug fit between them unless you pay attention to the bends and trial fit until perfect.

It really pays off here to adjust the bends until the parts fit with no gaps and if the front tunnel cover is not glued down yet it will be easier secure the upper seams to the drive tunnel then glue the front cover.

The upper firewall piece will fall into place once the foot boxes are complete.

[LR3]

Just for fun I had to post this view although the motor can not be attached yet as it makes the model nose heavy while handling and the rear sheet metal is yet to be applied.

[LR3]

For any extraneous CA runs (or finger prints) it is easy to use debonder or acetone to wipe away the problem. Just use a q-tip and rub the liquid on, then scrub a bit. It might take more than one application.

[LR3]

The rear sheet metal is complicated and may seem to require more hands than the human body is allotted for gluing pieces together. The gas tank has a bottom, two sides and a top.

I found out after the fact that the sides were meant to over lap. I cut them to butt into each other. The sides are to wrap around the top and bottom, not fit inside.

The trunk or tire tub fits on top of the gas tank and consists of a bottom, slanted side and surrounding top. There are also two side ears to attach the assembly to the gas tank.

The trunk is assembled then mounted to the gas tank with the rear fingers and side wings on the gas tank establishing its position.

Attaching the mounting ears became a problem. I didn't know how to mount them but finally decided to position the trunk assembly to the mounting posts on the frame then position the ears for marking. You can see the mark at the rear surface of the trunk.

Then I attached them to the trunk.

Then glued them to the back of the interior assembly. This plus the mounting pegs on the frame made for a strong assembly.

Here is a final view of the completed assembly.

[LR3]

The last build post was in error. I made the mistake of running ahead before Tim could advise me of the assembly sequence. The trunk and wheel well sheet metal should not be glued to the chassis yet. This might be a good place to advise that in the many times one will be handling the sheet metal assembly, glued bonds will be broken if you are as ham handed as I am. Or if you make a mistake such as I did, the bonds are easy to break apart by just sliding a knife-edge into the bond.After assembling the trunk one must fit the trunk and body to the chassis. So the chassis should look like this as you proceed with the rear sheet metal.

First you fit the trunk to the body holding it in place with masking tape and trial fitting the body to the chassis then sanding or grinding the body until the trunk and body settle on the chassis with the mounting post seated into the trunk mounting holes.

You trial push the trunk against the body rear and sand (or grind) away the body interference points until the trunk front face is at least 7/8" from the cockpit edge like the picture. This measurement is not exact, just an estimate for initial sanding so you do not have to keep mounting the body, as the real key is how it looks from the top as in the picture above.

It will require numerous attempts so be patient as you do not want to grind too deep into the fiberglass but the trunk should butt against the rear of the body. The wheel well sheet metal can be slid into place much later after the body is painted and is ready for final assembly. This shows it can be done with the trunk mounted into a body.

[Gregg]

Now this is a build!!!

I love the work, the details, the photos, the descriptions.

I really do appreciate all the hard work, and your willingness to share your talents and work with us.

mahalo nui loa

[stump]

This is looking GREAT Syd.

Shame you had to partially dis-assemble it, but at least it was an easy fix, and a great pointer for the next guys doing this build. TWO thumbs up mate.

[LR3]

A couple of extra details for the engine came in the mail. The kit will now include a triangle cross-section belt and an oil filter remote mount.

The belt was cast in rubber by the Madd Fabricator and is to be cut to length then glued at the bottom of the drive shaft pulley. It is a large improvement over the electrical tape I was using.

There will be two oil filter mounts in the kit. One to mount directly to the block and then one to mount the filter remotely on the water pump assembly. The remote mount has a sheet metal triangle bracket that uses two holes in the water pump assembly for structural rigidity.

It can be seen here next to the coil. It makes sense to bolt the mount to the block using 1mm bolts then glue on the filter.

The final motor for my 427 now looks like this. You can see the triangle cross-section belt and mounted oil filter. Later there will be an oil cooler added to the kit for the competition version and the oil lines will then be plumbed differently.

[LR3]

As for the trunk, there are interference areas between the body and the front sheet metal. Taping the metal in place and making a few test fits will show the areas to sand. Marking the high points with a fine point sharpie helps.

The front sheet metal attaches to the radiator frame and the front outriggers. There were a number of complicated small bends like a degree or two that can best be simulated by just creasing the metal but in the end all these tiny bends form the sides of a good looking engine bay.

I dropped the battery into the battery box just to add a little color. This is not the best time to install it permanently.

Here is how the chassis looks at this stage but only for evaluating fit. There are many steps left before the chassis and body marriage.

[LR3]

The Madd Fabricator provided a battery and many other parts cast in resin, I added 00-90 bolts and flattened some aluminum tube for battery connectors.

Tim provided a hammer for the knock offs, a jack, hood latch handles and the license plate holder.

I was curious as to what could be seen when these are attached with the body in place. I scratched together a fuel pump filter assembly to add to the trunk even though the real car has the fuel pump under the body at the gas tank.

The spare tire is an optional accessory.

There is plenty of space on the firewall for accessories.

I had hoped to be able to add a mechanical throttle linkage like this but my talent failed.

So I settled for a throttle cable.

I tried scratching together a solenoid and added some left over ignition parts from an old model.

I stopped here because when you mount the body not a lot more would be seen.

[stump]

Ah, she's looking good Syd.

The remote filter is a nice addition too....good thinking.

It all appears to be lining up pretty well too mate, the odd tweak here and there are to be expected I guess with something so large and complex.

Tell the lads I'm available if they wish to send out a kit to Australia....just in case it goes together differently down here....we are upside down don't forget.......

[GrandpaMcGurk]

The "lads" heard ya Gregg......

Who knows, I'm sure it came as a surprise to Syd when I asked him to work with us on the Roadster prototype.

We feel that selecting one of you builders from time to time to work with us in this fashion provides a field tested product.

It allows us to make running changes and provide you guys with a better product.

[LR3]

Tim and the Madd Fabricator have provided two dashboard options. Tim provides an aluminum dashboard with two glove box doors. One is solid for the competition model and one with a latch hole for the street version.

The Madd Fabricator provides a resin version to simulate either a leather or vinyl covered dash such as I used. It will be glued to the body where it meets the cowl hoop.

The instrument bezels and instrument decals go with either dash. The decals are of an extremely high-resolution print on white water slide paper. You can read the names and see the numerals, etc. just like in a photograph. You must trim them very close or a white border will be seen. They do not take kindly to a decal softening solution. They can slide off after about 10 seconds in water.

The smaller instruments are very deep for their diameter but the decals drop right in. I used pinheads for lights and 22-gauge wire folded back on itself for toggle switches. The glove box handle is also a larger pin with a ball head. The instruments have a green tint.

[LR3]

The windshield is of the white RP material and has a built in simulated rubber dam at the bottom. There are two indentations on the 427 body to show where you cut holes for mounting the windshield. A small drill to start and some careful filing can make the hole a slip fit. The real cars have a chrome gasket at the body to cover any sheet metal gap. As in the last picture, one can be made from thin sheet styrene.

The windshield is one of the last items to install. The windshield bottom mounts directly to plates located on the cowl hoop with holes matching those on the windshield. Bolts may be used for attachment or styrene rod stubs may be inserted in the cowl so the windshield post can snap into place.

[LR3]

Forgot about the drive shaft! It might have been best to insert one end of the drive shaft into the differential before adding the tunnel cover during the sheet metal stage. The rear frame cross tube covers the connection area.

It is a long way down that tunnel to get to the differential.

The assembly consists of two universal joints connected by a modeler supplied styrene tube. The assembly can be inserted in separate pieces so long as the U joint ends are short but it is a fiddly job at this time.

[Jim Gibbons]

This is an amazing model done with superb craftsmanship. I can't help but think that building a 1:1 would be a far easier job!

[stump]

The "lads" heard ya Gregg......

Who knows, I'm sure it came as a surprise to Syd when I asked him to work with us on the Roadster prototype.

We feel that selecting one of you builders from time to time to work with us in this fashion provides a field tested product.

It allows us to make running changes and provide you guys with a better product.

Hey, no worries Don. I was just thinking out loud.....a bad habit I have. I DO love what you guys are doing and offering to us guys in our hobby though.

Great update too Syd. She's moving along at a nice steady pace. Love the dash board and it's options... a nice touch. Two more thumbs up.