Next ICM 1/24 Model T

[Eric Macleod]

I found it. This was a car that was good enough for Grand Champion at the Old Car Festival in Greenfield Village several years back. This was a car that lost NO points, not one! Note the tires on this one. Also, zoom in on the pin striping. This car is true rolling art. While a DeTamble is a car in a very different class than the Model T of 1911, it gives you a good idea of what I was suggesting in terms of tires. Enjoy the photo all.

[Art Anderson]

On 12/28/2017 at 9:30 PM, Eric Macleod said:

Well, yes and no. They were almost certainly all gray. Unfortunately gray is not  widely available from tje three major suppliers of tires for brass eta cars, (Coker, Lester or Universal) so the cars we see now almost all have solid white, or they have a buff color that the tires acquire as they age. Coker offered the 30 X 3 (fronts) and 30 X 3 1/2 (rears) in gray for a very short time but there were not many takers at $500 per tire plus $150 per tube.

A local T collector did buy two sets of the gray tires. One of the cars wearing a set was an 11 Commercial Roadster (blue over black fenders with gray stripes) which went on to win Stynoski and the AACA Ford Award. The other set is on an 11 Torpedo Runabout he owns which is currently being restored with the notion of setting a new authenticity standard. Us Model T guys who are fans of the brass era can't wait to see the completed car. While the car is well known it has been kept pretty well under wraps until it hits the show circuit. 

Having seen just a few cars shod with gray tires I was struck by just how "right" the cars looked with them in place. This was particularly true in the case of cars done in their factory correct colors.

This is more than anyone wanted to know, but that's the answer as I know it best. And of course Art is corrrect, no whitewall tires on any of the 11-13 era Fords. 

Eric, grey tires didn't happen until about 1914, when it was discovered that adding carbon black to latex rubber greatly increased not only the strength of the rubber, but also the lifespan, especially in sunlight.  As time went on, all the way out to WW-II, and the introduction of petroleum-based synthetic rubber, which which does turn starkly black with carbon black added to it.

Art

[Art Anderson]

On 12/29/2017 at 8:21 AM, bbowser said:

What would be the best way to color the white tires to a more realistic look?  I've built a couple of these now and the stark white tires just don't look right to me.  I'm thinking a "buff" acrylic of some kind but leery of cracking on the tires.

I used an artist's "shading" marker (really wide tip) on my '13 tires, to replicate the buff-color of natural latex rubber.  While I found that in the art department of a college bookstore here, they may possibly be available at the likes of Michael's or Hobby Lobby.  There is a wide range of shades of greys as well as yellows and tans.

Art

[Mike999]

ICM is also doing some nice Model T kits in 1/35 scale with full engine/chassis detail: a 1917 U.S. Army Ambulance, the Australian Model 1917 Utility Truck shown below, and an Aussie LCP (Light Car Patrol, a 2-seater with Vickers machine gun). 

Years ago, the Polish company RPM released 2 Model T kits in 1/35 scale:  a Motor Machine Gun Service (MMGS) car with Vickers and a supply truck.  For many years they were the ONLY 1/35 Model T kits available.  Otherwise we had to modify an old PYRO or AIRFIX/MPC 1/32 scale Model T.  With the ICM kits available, the RPM kits can be left on the store shelf (or eBay).  They were pretty bad: no engine and little chassis detail, thick flashy parts that had to be carved down balanced by very thin small parts that broke on the sprues, and usually some short-shot parts.  Ugly!

Idea for a militarized Model T in either 1/24 or 1/35 scale:  some Model T's in Europe and the Middle East were fitted out as "tenders."  Repair trucks.  These were unarmed 2-seaters and carried a big load of tools, parts and spare tires for repairing Model T's in the field.  They looked like the Utility Truck below, without a top or windshield.

 

[Eric Macleod]

12 hours ago, Art Anderson said:

Eric, grey tires didn't happen until about 1914, when it was discovered that adding carbon black to latex rubber greatly increased not only the strength of the rubber, but also the lifespan, especially in sunlight.  As time went on, all the way out to WW-II, and the introduction of petroleum-based synthetic rubber, which which does turn starkly black with carbon black added to it.

Art

I have to concede a significant part of this one. I did some primary source research and find that when looking at Ford factory photos (from the Piquet Ave. plant) all of the cars clearly are carrying white tires. Research shows that Ford used both Firestone and BF Goodrich tires as original equipment so we are likely talking about a difference according to outside suppliers. Conversely, I did some additional primary source research and find that the BF Goodrich company (per their internal published information) first began adding carbon to tires in1911. So, the gray tires are also 100% correct on show cars from 1911 on up (this explains why so many cars, including the DeTamble I mentioned do not suffer point deductions for tires such as the gray BF Goodrich issue).

Bottom line, you can be correct with either the buff color or light gray when replicating either an original car or a restored car (with weathered tires) or with pure white (slightly creamy white) when replicating a restored car as it would appear today. The best way to be 100% correct is to build a model of a specific 1:1 car, not what I call a model of a model.

If we really want to get into a debate, we could also discuss the correct colors of the paint itself. Fortunately, for a Speedster or a C-Cab truck, anything goes. For anything else the best bet is to go with midnight blue for the body and wheels, a color so dark that it is nearly indistinguishable from black except in the light. Everything else (fenders, seats, interior upholstery-except the metal seat back, chassis and running gear) would be black. There are also lots of other brass, wooden and white rubber bits on these cars. This would be correct for all American-made Ford Touring Cars and Roadsters 1911-1913. Mid-year 1913, black was introduced for many Ford cars and was completely implemented by model year 1914. I will get some primary source photos up soon in the 1:1 car area. To whet your appetite through, here is a rugged old 1913 Touring. It exemplifies what makes some of us Model T lovers go crazy. Above, I talked at length about color. In the case of this particular car...it was clearly GREEN from the factory. Grr...

Edited January 10, 2018 by Eric Macleod
Additional information.

[Art Anderson]

6 hours ago, Eric Macleod said:

I have to concede a significant part of this one. I did some primary source research and find that when looking at Ford factory photos (from the Piquet Ave. plant) all of the cars clearly are carrying white tires. Research shows that Ford used both Firestone and BF Goodrich tires as original equipment so we are likely talking about a difference according to outside suppliers. Conversely, I did some additional primary source research and find that the BF Goodrich company (per their internal published information) first began adding carbon to tires in1911. So, the gray tires are also 100% correct on show cars from 1911 on up (this explains why so many cars, including the DeTamble I mentioned do not suffer point deductions for tires such as the gray BF Goodrich issue).

Bottom line, you can be correct with either the buff color or light gray when replicating either an original car or a restored car (with weathered tires) or with pure white (slightly creamy white) when replicating a restored car as it would appear today. The best way to be 100% correct is to build a model of a specific 1:1 car, not what I call a model of a model.

If we really want to get into a debate, we could also discuss the correct colors of the paint itself. Fortunately, for a Speedster or a C-Cab truck, anything goes. For anything else the best bet is to go with midnight blue for the body and wheels, a color so dark that it is nearly indistinguishable from black except in the light. Everything else (fenders, seats, interior upholstery-except the metal seat back, chassis and running gear) would be black. There are also lots of other brass, wooden and white rubber bits on these cars. This would be correct for all American-made Ford Touring Cars and Roadsters 1911-1913. Mid-year 1913, black was introduced for many Ford cars and was completely implemented by model year 1914. I will get some primary source photos up soon in the 1:1 car area. To whet your appetite through, here is a rugged old 1913 Touring. It exemplifies what makes some of us Model T lovers go crazy. Above, I talked at length about color. In the case of this particular car...it was clearly GREEN from the factory. Grr...

Exactly, Eric!  Very few truly bright, brilliant colors got used on cars back in the years prior to WW-I, even for years, even decades afterward.  Pretty much (from my reading and research), back a century ago,  most bright colors (save for say, yellow, red or white) were subject to either quick fading or just "chalking" out (white).  It seems that the darker the color, the longer the paint job would last (of course, if one was part of the legendary "400" (those chosen few of New York City Society, with "chapters in places like Boston, Philadelphia or Washington DC, then the issue of an annual repainting was not a problem--but for the more plebian masses,  the darker the color, the longer the paint seemed to last.