This is a Crying Shame!

[impcon]

I have wanted an MPC '65 Dodge Monaco for a long time, being as how I own several of the real thing. I finally scored on on Ebay a few days ago and it arrived today - broken in shipment. Below are pictures of what happens when people do not package stuff properly. Upon close examination of the box thatthe kit was boxed in, it appears as though the USPS box took a bit of a whack ( why does the opening scene of Ace ventura pet Detective come to mind where he is walking alng the sidewalk posing as a delivery guy and goofing around with the package - kicking it and throwing it ??? ) but had the car been packed properly inside the model box, it may have survived. These kits are pricey enough to always make me sit back and watch the auction close but on Ebay, if you wait long enough, something will slip through the cracks. It still cost me over $44.00 with shipping and to me, that's a bit of cash for something that is going to just sit on a shelf. I have emailed the seller so we'll see what happens. He forgot to mention the front fender scripts that are sanded off and the missing stock wheel cover too in his description. I can overlook those things but stuffing a couple of crumpled up newspaper inside a box full of plastic model parts and a complete body... pretty tacky. This was a pretty clean old build - what a shame.

[62rebel]

are those the custom seats from an AMT '49 Mercury?

you're right, though; better packing probably would have made the difference. that looks saveable though....

[Bartster]

That is disgraceful Mopar abuse. I honestly feel your pain. It really does look savable, though. I sure would give it a go.

[TurboKitty]

you already emailed the seller, so give him a chance to make it right. If he says he won't do anything, file an Item Not As Described complaint through ebay. It is the seller's responsibility to properly package the item for safe shipment. Newspaper is not a good packing material for obvious reasons, and a package of bubble wrap is not that expensive. If the seller does not have a return policy (i.e he won't allow you to return the car for a full refund minus original shipping), Ebay's Buyer Protection will automatically decide the case in your favor. Be willing to show proof of damage via pictures to the seller (ebay almost never requires you to show proof, they just take your word for it which is not exactly the smartest thing for them to do, because a lot of dishonest bidders take advantage of that). Request a refund (at least a partial refund that both you & the seller think is fair). If the seller is willing to work to rectify the situation, great. Sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

If the seller can't even agree to a partial refund, ebay will automatically decide in your favor and you'll get a full refund (incl. original shipping). Unfortunately for the seller, ebay won't even make you send the car back to the him (unless the final item price is over $125 I think, might be wrong on the dollar amount). Don't think that there is nothing that you can do, in reality you have the upper hand because the seller is required to obide by ebay policy and ebay buyer protection overrides whatever "policy" the seller has stated in his item description terms. Normally ebay prefers that a seller have a 7 day (at least) return policy for a full refund, no questions asked. A lot of dishonest bidders actually look for sellers w/ no return policy & basic shipping because they can get away with abusing ebay's buyer protection policy. That's what I don't like about selling, having to deal with people like that (I'm not saying that's what you did, not at all!) So 99% of the time a buyer gets a full refund, even if they tell a flat out lie (for example, if they falsley claim they received a damaged item or if they claim that they didn't receive it at all when in fact they did. If a seller slips up and doesn't offer delivery confirmation, that makes them a vulnerable target to the dishonest bidders and ebay automatically sides with the buyer. It's not exactly fair for sellers . Sorry to type so much, but hopefully for you the seller will do right by you. He didn't personally deliver the item to your door but like I said he is at least responsible for packaging it safely. It takes like 20 seconds to write "Fragile" on the box a couple times, and he can even ask for the post office to apply "Fragile" stickers to it. That way if you receive a damaged box, don't open it. Take it to the post office (or UPS, whoever it came from) and have them open it. If the item is damaged, have them make a record of it and contact the seller. You don't have to accept a damaged item (whether you can fix it or not) and as long as you pay via PayPal, you are covered 100%. Good Luck

Edited January 28, 2012 by TurboKitty

[Fabrux]

Wow, that's harsh. On the bright side, its not a complete loss!

[jbwelda]

if i was the seller i would just refund your money right away. but then again, if i was the seller i would have packed it adequately to begin with.

i take it you didnt buy their insurance? thats alright though because that insurance never really seems to work out anyhow.

i dont really think this happens with USPS too much. UPS? almost every time.

i feel your pain man.

> It takes like 20 seconds to write "Fragile" on the box a couple times

i dont mean to offend you but thats the funniest thing ive read all day!

[Junkman]

Ain't this the offspring of a female dog?

Yes, it can be restored, but to just have a nice old build is out of the window now.

If it is any consolation for you, my 66 Jo-Han Chrysler 300 arrived in a similar condition - and still is.

I didn't do anything about it. Where I am, one is glad to just have a 66 Jo-Han Chrysler 300, no matter what condition its in.

[Bartster]

A-men

[Guest]

I gotta wonder if it wasnt packaged like that in the first place!? I have found that writing fragile on the box as a rule does not result in better care of packages. I once recived a box with fragile stamped on it that had more dents than a demo derby car! Well, maybe you can make a junkyard find build out of it!

[oldscool]

That is a shame as the rest of the model looks very well preserved. On the bright side it's a fairly clean break and should be easy to fix unless you were wanting to leave it in original condition.

gus

[Johnny K]

Good job on explaining basic eBay and PayPal policy.

That 'Fragile' thing, though . . . I think, in actuality, that follows the law of inverse geometric proportion. The more times you write Fragile on the box, the more times it has an 'accident.' I package all my items well, but you won't receive one with Fragile written on it - too much a risk and a red flag - in my opinion.

[Scale-Master]

Like Jacen said, I never have seen one break like that either, unless the A-Pillars and other weaker parts were damaged too. My first thought was that it was broken before it was packed...

[Johnny K]

. . . it was broken before it was packed...

I Have no way of knowing on this one, but some sellers will certainly do that.

A few months ago, I bought a 60's vintage '31 Sedan Delivery. It was built and described as 'some small parts may fall off during shipping . . ,' as is normal; however, when it arrived, many 'small' parts, including tires, were either loose or broken off - and all packed in the rear delivery section of the car. Seller still swears the Post Office did it. No mind, still a good deal for my purposes.

I suppose the photo was a very carefully staged mock-up. At any rate, were there photos clearly showing this section of your car in the listing?

[TurboKitty]

Good job on explaining basic eBay and PayPal policy.

That 'Fragile' thing, though . . . I think, in actuality, that follows the law of inverse geometric proportion. The more times you write Fragile on the box, the more times it has an 'accident.' I package all my items well, but you won't receive one with Fragile written on it - too much a risk and a red flag - in my opinion.

Honestly that has not happened to me, I request whenever I buy something off of ebay that the seller please mark it as Fragile and if I pay a lot for it, it's a no brainer to get insurance on it since it only costs a couple bucks. Most of the time they do and not once have I had a box marked Fragile be delivered all banged up like you describe. Also I write Fragile on each box that I send out to members if I do a kit trade on here. Not once has anyone said that it arrived damaged. Whether that has happened & whoever I traded with decided not to say anything I don't know, I guess no news is good news as far as that. So anyway it isn't really fair to assume that all postal workers are intentionally damaging packages for the heck of it. I know it happens (I've heard horror stories about sentimental items being destroyed beyond repair & I've seen the recent videos of deliverymen kicking/tossing boxes and the one about tossing the TV over the fence, etc) but if it is marked Fragile and it comes all banged up, that makes whoever delivered the package (USPS, UPS, FEDEX, etc) responsible for mishandling it and you have the right to refuse delivery. If you accept it and open it, well then you're accepting it AS IS, basically telling the post office that you are ok with it even if it's damaged so that lets them off the hook (if insurance wasn't purchased, even if it wasn't you can still have them report that it came damaged). Anyway if the OP has reason to believe it was damaged before being packaged, then it is item misrepresentation and ebay buyer protection covers that as long as the item was paid for through PayPal. If it was possibly damaged in transit, then it's still covered whether insurance was purchased or not. It's not covered by the post office, but it's still covered by ebay because like I said, it's the sellers job to package it safely and securely.

Obviously he didn't, not wanting to repeat myself but if it were me I would email the seller, give him a few days to reply, and if he isn't willing to rectify the situation outside of ebay, I'd open a case through ebay. That might light a fire under his butt to refund by his own choice, if that doesn't happen then ebay will refund on his behalf if he doesn't have the money in his PayPal account. Then the seller will owe ebay. If he does have enough in his PayPal account then ebay will take it and no matter what you'll get a refund. You'd think that the seller would do whatever he can to earn a positive feedback and all 5 Star DSR ratings (anything less than 5 stars is considered bad as far as ebay is concerned). If you want to keep the car, ask for a partial refund because it did not arrive to your door as described in the auction description. If you don't want to keep it, return it and request a full refund. If you have to go through ebay you'll end up getting to keep it and get your money back. Lucky for you, but not for the seller if he was honest and it wasn't already damaged before shipping. Maybe next time he will invest in better packaging materials instead of newspaper.

Edited January 28, 2012 by TurboKitty

[Johnny K]

So anyway it isn't really fair to assume that all postal workers are intentionally damaging packages for the heck of it. I know it happens (I've heard horror stories about sentimental items being destroyed beyond repair & I've seen the recent videos of deliverymen kicking/tossing boxes and the one about tossing the TV over the fence, etc) but if it is marked Fragile and it comes all banged up, that makes whoever delivered the package (USPS, UPS, FEDEX, etc) responsible for mishandling it and you have the right to refuse delivery.

I didn't mean to imply that at all - even though packages do arrive damaged occasionally (and sometimes mishandled), the USPS does a fantastic job overall proportionate to the number of packages moved. Still, I do maintain - from my experience and in my opinion only - that placing a label marked 'fragile' on a package is the equivalent to placing a red button on a wall with the legend 'Do Not Push,' affixed above.

As to the OP's situation, I am in full agreement that an eBay (PayPal) filing would certainly result in a complete refund. That is, if PayPal was used, and if he actually would prefer a refund to keeping the model. Compromise on a partial does seem a good way to go.

[Hypermung]

A few months ago, I bought a 60's vintage '31 Sedan Delivery. It was built and described as 'some small parts may fall off during shipping . . ,' as is normal; however, when it arrived, many 'small' parts, including tires, were either loose or broken off - and all packed in the rear delivery section of the car. Seller still swears the Post Office did it.

How do parts break off 'In transit' & end up arriving packaged in the back?.... Let your 'Stars' do the ebay talking.

[impcon]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I emailed the seller and he was not very pleasant, telling me this - and I quote - "Not sure what you want me to do. I've sent about 100 model cars packaged exactly the same. If it was damaged in shipping I have no control over that, and you did not request insurance. The model was in good condition when sent but it is 47 yrs old and it was sold as is.'

I emailed back this:

Good morning Dave,

I have uploaded pictures of the damage on my Photobucket account ( http://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff232/25071951/ ) to show you the condition of the model when I received it. It is my opinion that had the car itself been wrapped in paper towels or a soft tissue paper, and then the model box enclosed in bubble wrap or foam chips, it may have made the journey successfully but a couple of pieces of crumpled newspaper jammed inside the model box doesn’t have a lot of give for the thin plastic.

We sold on Ebay for years and I understand your frustration but I feel that some sort of restitution is in order her as the car is pretty much a parts kit now as it will be very difficult to repair that fender without it being visible. I have bought literally hundreds of models over the years off of Ebay and seldom has anything arrived broken if it has been properly packaged and wrapped. Newspaper works fine for stronger items but models are delicate and require extra care.

I appreciate the fast shipping and the fact that you made the car available but unfortunately, it somehow was damaged and I would never have paid for it what I paid had it been sold as damaged - which I am sure that when you sold it, it was not.

I would appreciate some form of settlement as I do not feel that it is fair for you to expect me to pay full price for something that is broken because of poor packaging. The USPS box seems to be on good condition and not squashed or damaged so what ever happened did not hurt the outer box - yet the model is broken. I await your reply. Respectfully, Gary

His response was simply, "What is it that you want?"

I emailed back stating that I am open to some sort of settlement and he has not responded. Here's the auction - http://www.ebay.com/itm/150736158953?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 The price of the model was really right as they usually go for double that amount or more. I am not sure what to think because the seller has good feedback, but thoughts do go through my mind that I'd best keep to myself. I sort of get the feeling that he wasn't dazzled by the selling price and the photo on the auction is of course taken from the passenger's side.. so who knows? I'm going to try another time or two to get some sort of resolve and if he ignores me, then I'll do what I do not really want to do and file a claim with Ebay. I do not want the car for nothing but if it did get broken in shipment, it is because of how it was packaged. I do not operate or live by the idea of get what you can for nothing, and I hate to be responsible for messing up his perfect feedback rating, but it is indeed an odd place for the car to break. There is no evidence on the USPS box that it was crushed or hurt aside from a small wrinkle on one corner but I can not see how it could possibly have resulted in the fender being broken.

I bought a 1/18 scale die cast Cadillac a few years ago for the opening bid which was dirt cheap - under five dollars if memory serves me right. It arrived not in a box but rather just rolled up in a piece of soft cardboard and of course, smashed and worthless. I had to email the seller a few times to get my invoice and I suspect that he was chocked because the car sold so cheap - hence just rolling some soft cardboard stock around it, taping the ends of the crude package closed and putting it in the mail. i emailed him and his reply was, " What do you want for under five dollars?" I filed a claim with Ebay and they ruled in his favor even though I supplied copies of our email exchange and photos of the car and the packaging. So as for them doing anything in this case - I ain't holding my breath. But I do honestly wonder if the model was indeed intact when the box was sealed....

[Fabrux]

Was/is the grille/bumper glued in place? That sort of crack usually develops due to trying to pry off a grille (in my experience). The eBay picture appears to show an intact fender, but its hard to tell definitively. It could be that the seller tried removing the grille and it started to crack so he left it alone. The piece that broke off is a very strange one to come off due to shipping, but that's not saying its impossible. Judging from the evidence presented, I would have to say that the damage was caused during shipping and therefore a result of poor packaging.

[Chuck Most]

I gotta wonder if it wasnt packaged like that in the first place!? I have found that writing fragile on the box as a rule does not result in better care of packages. I once recived a box with fragile stamped on it that had more dents than a demo derby car! Well, maybe you can make a junkyard find build out of it!

I've spoken with a number of UPS and USPS employees who say that 'Fragile' markings are pretty much lauged off... all packages are handled in exactly the same manner, no matter what is stamped on the box. As a rule I never have them put a Fragile label on anything I send out, because in my experience it seems having a package marked Fragile all but guarantees it will arrive in more pieces than when I sent it out.

[Hypermung]

Australia Post won't even accept anything labeled 'Fragile'..... Same 'Careful' service for everything.

[TurboKitty]

ok so the seller is basically trying to get out of it by blaming it on the post office, which is par for the course. Ebay has changed a lot (in the buyer's favor) since you bought that Cadillac 1/18 I can almost guarantee. Tell the seller that you will be filing an Item Not As Described case since he is not willing to accept part of the responsibility for shoddy packaging. If he was not happy with the final bid price, he could have asked you to cancel the transaction, of course you could have denied if he had done so. Since he accepted your payment, he also accepts responsibility if it doesn't arrive to you in as described condition. When you open a case with ebay, obviously be cooperative and not accusatory. Simply tell them that yes, you emailed the seller, and that no, he is not working with you to rectify the situation (those are options that you can click on when filing a case), unfortunately I've had to do this a couple times myself and albeit frustrating, don't feel like it is a lost cause. Like I said, if the seller isn't willing to refund by himself or accept it as a return to stay in good standing as a seller, ebay will definitely give you a refund based on that alone. If his feedback means anything to him then he would be bending over backwards to make things right. File the case & let ebay handle the rest, I have no doubt that you will probably get a full refund. Sucks for the seller, but he can't blame anyone but himself - he's the one that neglected to package it correctly.

Edited January 30, 2012 by TurboKitty

[deja-view]

I've bought and sold a lot of large scale kits over the years, and the size of the boxes has always been a challenge for packing. When I ship I reinforce the original box on the inside first....especially the center. Everything that can move is packed in whatever medium works best (sometimes it's just plastic grocery bags). Between the oem box and the outer box it's packed tight with air packets or styrofoam beans/snakes/pellets. If necessary I also place flat styrofoam panels around the inner box. I have never had a box arrive damaged on the inside.

When I buy, I demand the same. Reinforcing the oem box from the inside to protect the plastic is critical. Every older Monogram 1/12 kit that didn't have the extra cardboard arrived with broken roofs or other parts. I was a jobber for a store chain for a few years and all the models that are shipped as wholesale lots are not usually reinforced because they are put in a larger box by 6's or 12's. So, naturally the oem boxes are very thin and weak.