Egilman

Update: Front axle... Overall, (along with the front Shock Absorber Bracket) Now to design the spindle tubes, leading to the Spindles themselves at which point I'll incorporate the camber, (outward lean) and toe-in, (narrowing of the front wheels at the leading edge) All improvements of the front steering engineering of the automobile... It's good to note that in 1910 they understood proportional steering, camber and toe-in and how they effect tire wear and turning control, they were still working towards castoring front wheels... (heck most people don't understand steering geometry even today) But they still did not understand body roll, moment of inertia, weight shift and thrust angle, nor why they were important... 1910 was a period of discovery in the auto industry and Indy was intended to be the proving grounds for auto engineering advancement... The steering of the Marmon Wasp incorporated all they had learned..... I'll attempt to explain it as I go.... (what little I understand) Anyways, Onwards...

Thank you John, Next up is the Front Axle... I've already created the Front Shock Brackets and am working up the Axle itself.... I'll probably shift over to the rear axle when the Front Wheels are done.... Thank you for all your help...

And now the bottom springs are done..... Fun times, And before I go on to the next part, I've got to reconfigure the front springs to better match the rears.... An overall look.... Haven't decided which direction I will go next, but it will be one of the Axles.... Onwards...

Well the upper Rear Springs are done.... And the overall... Now to close it out by doing the lowers..... Onwards....

Well another update... Rear Springs, I was hoping that I would be able to use the springs I had already made to build the second version... Unfortunately no That wasn't going to work so I've set about building a whole new set of Rear Springs..... And in measuring it against the detailed photos I now have I found that I also needed to rework the Bracket as well to more accurately reflect it's true position on the car... 3/4ths inch closer to the rear and up at the turn of the curve on the frame rail... Then I added in the old springs and the ends sat way to low, so I was forced to completely rebuild the springs reflecting the correct measured position on the car... The curve is now accurate, 40" long by 2" wide with a 3" drop at each end... I've included two pics showing the current iteration colored in the cars natural yellow color.... And one of the spring itself showing the upper mainspring and first leaf... and it's one solid piece as well.... Next posting when the spring itself is finished... Onwards.....

Thank you Ken... Trying to be as accurate to Race Day as possible...

Thanks for the like John It's appreciated.... And I've started the Rear Springs.... First I have to create the mounting plate, it's the pivot point of the upper spring and carries the load from the Wheels & Rear Axle vertically to the frame... Mounting Plate, A lot different than first envisioned.... Thanks to the pics John provided, much, much more accurate.... Reverse side, attached to it's mounting bracket.... And finally in place against the frame..... Now I start to build the upper rear spring.... Onwards....

Well another update, this one took a while to create.... Front Springs.... Eight tries at it, five complete redraws..... 2" x 35" Asymmetrical Leaf Springs.... The Axle mount centers 15" from the front pivot point leaving 20" behind the axel The leaves are 1/4" thick at the Axel Mount and taper to 1/16" at the tips and the tips are full width radiused... (my originals weren't) And they are mostly one piece, the two shackles are separate pieces as well as the rear pivot hanger... It wasn't easy... Overall look... I'm going to take a break for a few days, have some RL issues that need to be dealt with, but then after a suitable rest for the brain, I'm going to tackle the rear springs.... Onwards my friends...

Update: Rear Shock mounts and Spring brackets... (the shock mounts were easy, the spring mount was another story) Overall view of the area... Nothing unusual to the casual view.... Where the spring brackets live.... Different aren't they! not just bolted to the frame... but looking at their actual configuration the mechanics makes sense... And I might add a perfect application of the lever to reinforce the spring pivot point... Out of the frame.... And of course an overall beauty shot... I know, it's only beautiful to us engineering types who like this kind of stuff,..... That's it for today, I'm now on the road to a rolling chassis again... Thanks for your patience with me... EG

Thanks John... Your pics really make a difference... Currently done the rear shock mount, it went rather quickly as the original wasn't that far off... The Spring mounting bracket is another creature altogether though... Requires a complete redesign cause my original was way off... Working on it now, next update when it's done....

Well another update... Full frame... Except for a few minor details miscellaneous holes bolts & rivets, (added as I add more parts for the most part) she is complete!!! The increased level of detail also includes a bit of narrowing, as I was adding parts on the previous version she started feeling a bit fat so I rechecked and took an inch and a half off her width... Should help with the fitting of parts in the future... I also dropped the engine back into her.... It's the only part that hasn't been adjusted as of yet.. (although I will be adjusting the crankcase flange shortly to correct it's shape) Anyway this is the status as of today, Happy Easter everyone... EG

Another update... These would be the Rear Firewall Crossmember, The Brake intermediate shaft cross member and the Center Thrust Crossmember.... The Rear Firewall crossmember, It carries the forward end of the Fuel and oil tanks and the rear wall of the cockpit.... The Brake Intermediate Shaft Crossmember... It carries the levers and torque tubes of the brake system from the left side of the chassis to the right side to actuate the right side brakes simultaneously with the left side... Those two crossmembers are simple angle irons welded to mount plates and riveted to the side frame rails, pretty simple... Finally, we come to the Center Thrust Crossmember.... The Center Thrust Crossmember is the most important cross member as it transfers the push of the driveline to the frame keeping the thrust load of the rear axle & wheels off the springs... It also carries the emergency brake input shaft and the forward end shifter gate which transfers the motions of the shift lever to the shift rods leading back to the transmission... It is made of 3/16th flat steel press formed into a channel and riveted directly to the frame rails... It is the strongest of the six crossmembers making up the frame... An overall view of the Frame where it stands today.... Next up, the rear motor mounts and crossmember.... Onwards....

Thank you for those pics John, they really spell out what they looked like and how they were mounted... I just finished off the Rear Crossmember.... And the reverse side in the frame... Man those pics are so detailed, I can even see the correct form and mounting for the rear springs, it's a lot more involved that just a bracket bolted to the frame... And an overall view.... Currently looking at the next cross member forward, the one at the back of the drivers seat, it carries the frame for the rear body and fuel tanks.... Onwards....

Well, the Front Suspension Bracket is basically done.... And how she mounts to the frame rails... And we have a pair..... {chuckle} Onwards.....

Hi all, First iteration of more accurate parts.... Left Frame Rail, new on the left old, on the right... Next up the front suspension bracket, it carries the forward end of the front springs and the Shock Absorber upper mount... It's what those four forward rivets are securing... Now, Right and left rails.... Onwards.....

Hi all, First off, thank you for the views and support... Second of all, it's nice to see the interest in this particular piece of history.... But time has come to re-evaluate the progress and direction this has taken... As I have mentioned I've been working with whatever images and data I could glean from the net, but in reality that can take you only so far before the lack of accurate data starts to effect the outcome and inaccuracies start creeping into the design... It has become clear to me that I've reached that point... This is where I finally wound up... Correct, (kinda) motor mounts and a properly configured engine crossmember... with a much smaller flywheel.... This came about from the very kind contribution of some very detailed images that were gifted to me from Big John, (THANK YOU JOHN !!!) the process I'm working on requires revisiting what was drawn before and adding new details and features as the info comes available... I now have sufficient info data and pics to make almost EVERY part I've designed so far better and more accurate... Unfortunately many of those parts require a complete redesign to incorporate the new details... Some of it I got right, a lot of it is close and some of it is just plain wrong... So given the mountain of new information and pics... It's come time to start over... Those who do a lot of scratch designing/building know this process very well... So I'm here to announce Version 2 will be starting soon.... So don't change the channel, don't go surfing... As soon as I get my new base images indexed and loaded into SW, I'll be restarting the log... Look at it this way, you will get to see this built right from the start, creating a frame.... It won't take long and I'll be using much of what went before, but I will be adding the details that I now know exist which I didn't when I first started this project... Amazingly the images I now have access to show that quite a few of my guesses in how she was configured were amazingly accurate despite not having absolute proof of their configuration... Anyway, Onwards, and I apologize for the delay which has become painfully necessary to reach the end of my stated purpose, create the most accurate model of the Marmon Wasp currently in existence... Thank you in advance for your patience... EG

Another update... The firewall is taking some time... The firewall was custom fitted, all handwork and special parts to convert a two seat Marmon 32 Speedster into the single seat Wasp... As a result, the firewall is a very complicated assembly... Here is where she stands today.... She is close, but far enough out to warrant a redesign... Here is a closeup of the engine side illustrating the complexity of it.... It's got three different layers all in the space of an inch and a half.... Anyway still working it out... Onwards...

Sorry double post....

Oh Wow!!! Those are exactly the images I needed... The lower horizontal is angle iron, the box is obviously a wooden frame with a cast cover supporting the steering wheel shaft and center idler gear.... It is bolted thru the 3/16ths band iron, wood frame and cast steel support bracket, the band iron runs from the upper and lower angles in the left and from the rear engine crossmember to the outer frame at the top made of 2" x 1/4" steel bar... The tall bar which is just off the centerline on the right supports the ends of the angles which supports the open cut ends of the sheet metal........ Excellent images!!!! I also see where there are some images of the car during a maintenance cycle, with the cylinders and cowl removed... Those will be a great help sorting the two different sides of the firewall as the supports are configured differently... And they capture the angle iron used to support the floor pan.... It does a good job of showing the inner support structure as well the one that carries the upper steering tube support... AND!! I see where the throttle is!!!!! (throttle is the 1910 term for what today we call the choke) in 1910 the pedal on the floor was called the accelerator pedal... (chuckle) On the standard Marmon 32 (#33 car at indy placed 5th) they had two levers mounted to the steering column to control the throttle and spark advance, the Wasp used both systems but didn't have the levers... The spark advance is mounted to the left side of the upper column support and the throttle is on the upper right firewall... Thank you thank you thank you!!!! Those images cover a LOT of missing details.... But they also represent the car as she is today, I'm trying to model her as she was on race day... This means the throttle will be mounted opposite the spark advance on the column support... The car when originally built at the end of 1909, had a speedometer as well, and was photographed carrying the cable during most of 1910, (even while racing) but in 1911 at the first indy, it and it's drive was gone.... My technical configuration details come from an original 1911 Marmon sales brochure, it shows the frame details and all of the layout... They are obvious artistic renderings of photos showing the details but are in perspective view so are inaccurate for measurement purposes.... But they do show how the chassis was configured for the standard Marmon chassis... I've included them below...

Another short update.... The preliminary work on the firewall... The Firewall takes the shape of the Radiator... Aside from the corners at the shoulders which are curved the shape is exactly the same... And the basic framework mounted to the frame... Very rough blocking out here, it's a very difficult part to get a complete understanding of... There are numerous cutouts and inner cockpit support structures to suss out... The two sides right and left are completely different... This may take a while.... Onwards...

Ok, still plugging... The basic steering gear of the Marmon Wasp.... Modified from a Standard Marmon 32 Steering Gearbox.... Of course the input tube length will be set later, and the inner mounting brackets will have to be sussed out... (probably has something to do with that block bolted to the bottom) I have no references from that angle and the back side... Anyway, some details to add to the drag link but then I'm calling it done... Probably head to the firewall next so I can make sure the gearbox angle is correct... and build the Steering wheel... Onwards

Another short update... Steering Gear version II.... Well, of course the Steering Knuckle is part of the Front Axle assembly and the Pitmann/Sector arm is part of the Steering Gear, then there is the drag link between the two... Just roughed out at this point and I'm about to start on the actual gear box.... Onward...

Very Nice John.... Beautiful work....

Ok, New update, Clutch Pedal and Throwout Bearing... The basic setup.... The pedal when depressed actuated a cam working against a roller the cam is angled so when it moves against the roller the pull on the link increases geometrically (faster) which of course pulls on the link at the torque tube which moves the throwout bearing, (it's really a throwout bushing) away from the flywheel pulling the clutch out of engagement... You can see the link to the driving brakes pinned to a tab on the Pedal arm.... When the pedal is pushed it pulls the brake rod.... Now I know I mentioned that I really didn't have any proof that this was the actual way it was set up, BUT,,, I found some.... Lower right corner.... You can see the link plainly on the pedal arm just above the clutch link underneath the firewall with the Flywheel in the background... That's how the driving brakes were hooked up... It also leaves the pedal on the right side of the cockpit for the accelerator... Overall looks.... I still have some details to finish off like the brake rod going thru the crossmember, (need to cut a hole in the crossmember) Pillow blocks for the clutch torque tube and sort out a method of mounting the cam/link assembly to the frame... (using the two square head bolts on top of the frame) Well she is almost ready for the cockpit floor, but before I do that, I have to get back on the engine and steering...... Anyways, Onwards.....

Well three tries later and we have a complete Emergency Brake and Shifter package.... And the overall view... And the clutch pedal and linkages are the last part to getting the complete driveline from flywheel to tires done.... Onwards....