Cato

I had no idea it's been on the market that long! That's a great track record. I have no intentions to clear it so no worries. I'm using it on a non-model project but it is going on .020" styrene. It's a gift and I don't want to know it de-laminated from the parts in a couple of years. Your advice appreciated, thanks.

I'd like to know how long it lasts on the model without clear overcoats. Any builders have it on five or ten year-old models and how is it holding up? Does it lift or curl given average home display conditions? I realize it would not be the 'new and improved' BMF-that would only be a one or two year span. Any input appreciated.

That is fascinating and little-known history on the cars. You were very fortunate for a GT-lover to be on that trip and soak-up all the knowledge that the originators offered. Wish I was there...

Again, thanks for the great info-I'm guessing right at least! Can you explain the passenger door cut-off? I can't picture what that means. Actually, it sounds a little meaner as I have a lot more solid lifter cam in it than they raced with...

Pete, Thanks for the great first-hand info. Yes, the noise is glorious through those headers. I get to enjoy exactly that noise with mine with the sidepipes removed. Even with them on it's virtually the same as the pipes contain no packing. Since the cars were raced in '66 with the nose-mounted oil reservoir, I'm speculating that Lee built this car with the '67, MK IIB arrangement. That deleted the nose tank and put this reservoir here. It's opposite the driver position for balance and adds to the rearward weight bias. If you've got any snaps of the car from that visit to H-M please post them or a link. Can't get enough reference. Yes, in those days, there was nothing sadder than last years racecar.

Syd, Aside from the view of 1946 above, the best I have is these two views of restored and vintage-raced 1015. Think these were taken at Goodwood in the last few years. The car was reputably restored very close to '66 LeMans spec and only reliability and convenience items for vintage racing changed. (Like the braided hose). The aluminum 'shelf', turkey pan and distributor cover are removed here for pit maintenance. Note the blue chassis and the weld beads on the headers. Now I'm speculating here but it's possible that the coolers were both plumbed and operating in the 24 Hour Race. I have no race-day shots showing the coolers clearly. Modern vintage events are seldom more than 30 laps or possibly one hour, like the LeMans Revival event. So that much additional cooling is unnecessary now. Pure guess so show me otherwise-I'd love to know. BTW- I'd love to see ANY vintage reference photos you or any readers of this thread may care to share. I'd like to do mine with as much '66 detail as possible. I hope we can compile and share info in this one thread. Would be helpful to any kit builders sitting on the sidelines too.

Overall, a good solution Syd. Looks fine and with the oil coolers in place and the line, it will 'busy-up' that area and mask the faking we're forced to do. I've only been able to get white glue to work on the glass mountings-didn't think it would hold the tiny fittings. I thought RB and Detail Master only did 1/24, 1/25 parts-they do 1/12 as well? If so I will try the rubber hose first with their fittings or also buy their flex line if not happy with the hose. I originally built the Cobra with braided lines for the oil system but then switched to the black woven fiber cloth from Aeroquip and used their nickel fittings. It's lighter than the braided and much less bling-more the vintage look.

Syd, My pump arrangement is just like yours-buried between the firewall and the bulkhead. The Trump example is obviously modified-they knew it wouldn't work the way they designed it. Theirs is mounted forward more-at the edge of the floor plate. I will try to build mine like the photo of 1046 above-on an aluminum plate, bolted to the firewall so they're all easy to mount and plumb. I will not mount the driver-side pumps. Len, Thanks for the new info about your trip to H-M with Wells. I hope someday he will use all the documentation gathered to do his own kit. (I can imagine what that would cost). I know why they didn't proceed with a trans-kit of this Trump. Is this Lee's car that you sat in?: Last I saw in the '90's, the price for one of these was $725K. Do you know how many have been sold? Yes, I learned a great deal of what you wrote from Pearce's H-M book. I'm aware of the 'factory' concept and the reliance of Ford on H-M for the program on MKII's. I'm familiar with their 'continuation' status also. It seems more fitting for H-M rather than the Safir cars. The Cobra world is always debating which Cobras are 'real', 'replicas', 'continuations' or 'fakes'-it gives me a headache sometimes. Thanks for sharing and any new info you present is appreciated.

Pete, Thanks for sharing some new information. I have some questions about the info you acquired from Lee Holman, an excellent source as his dad's team prepared and modified the three MK II's for '66. Regarding the fuel system, was he referring to the way his team modified the three cars or the way the cars came from FAV? I found no conclusive evidence in the Pearce/Cotter book "Holman-Moody" regarding the way the fuel systems were designed other than the fact that the team jointly developed the Firestone cells. I was mistaken that the crossover pipe was in front of the dash. It is indeed under the seats but there is also a tubular connector to the fill necks as I described. From the book "The Ford GT", citing SAE Paper 670066 by Jos. Macura and Jonathan Bowers: "Figure 29 shows the complete fuel system in the vehicle. Three electric fuel pumps are used in this installation. Two of these pumps are connected in parallel and are used at all times unless the engine runs out of fuel. In such an emergency, the driver switches over to the third fuel pump. This enables the driver to return to the pit for refueling. At the outset of the program, the standard production mechanical fuel pump was used in conjunction with one emergency electric pump. During vehicle testing, some mechanical fuel pump arm failures were experienced when running on the electric pump. Unloading of the arm caused a non-follow condition because of lack of fuel pressure. The mechanical fuel pump was then replaced by two electric pumps." There is an illustrated diagram which clearly shows this layout but no in-tank pump. This collection of SAE papers documents Ford's development program on the cars, not how later teams may have modified them. NO WHERE however, can info be found that six pumps were mounted as Trumpeter has done. I have quite good photos that Stauffer's restoration of 1046 (the kit chassis) has only the three on the left side. So does chassis 1015. Here is 1046, the car Trump replicated for this kit: Remember, it's a Shelby car not a HM. And yes, restored cars are never exactly as the cars were at LeMans in '66. Your avatar shows you(?) seated in a GT. Care to share that info? If original, which chassis and if replica did you build it?

Yes they are the fuel system. The GT's carried the fuel cells in the outer 'pontoons' next to each seat, under the doors. Remember these were endurance racers-the thing runs for 24 hours. To my knowledge, two of the three pumps per side ran full time and one per side was 'back-up'. They were probably 'selectable' from dash switches. I may be wrong-maybe Len or any guys with better knowledge can chime in. Here's a shot at LeMans in '66: Here the cells are shown out of their monocoque shells. I think Firestone made these. Note they have two access openings-one at the front that the fuel from the filler enters, which then crosses over (in front of the dash) and feeds the 'passenger' side. The second opening is what's in the car under the plate right next to the seats. The tanks had to fuel evenly so that side-to-side weight distribution remained constant. Hope I'm right so jump in and correct me if I'm mistaken. 1/8 Cobra? I'd have been fine with a 1/12! Had a chat with some of the TDR guys about it last year and offered photo documentation of my engine, trans and other original parts (windshield, wheels, steering wheel etc). Rick thought maybe someday in the future but they had a full agenda of the parts you see them releasing now. Daytona Tim chose his name because he used to have a Daytona replica he had built. So I'm sure someday those guys will bring out a killer kit. There's a guy floating around the forums called BMWMech who has actually begun to scratch a 1/8 Cobra 427. I and a few of the Cobra forum members helped him with references and dimensions and he actually built a near complete brass chassis-then has disappeared! He does beautiful work as I've seen several of his other models including Ferrari. I'll have to be content with my 1:1 ( ) but I can't put it on my desk...

Can't answer the first problem-I didn't get up to that step yet. Yes, I think you can take any liberty you wish as the car is not a 'concours' build. When I did the oil lines, I assembled the fittings to the cut line first painted them, then 'massaged' the stiff lines to their position and CA'd them in place. Black vinyl hose like you used for the dry sump tank may be a better material to do the fuel hoses-only smaller diameters.

Nonsense about the paint skills-the chassis and interior paint is flawless. It's gonna look really good in white-the Holman continuation cars are white, I love 'em. OK-I finally gotcha about no 'racecar bad-boy stuff'. Did I harass you with too much 'reference' stuff? Sorry 'bout that. Well-outside rear view mirrors would make it more 'streety'-actually I think the #7 (or #5, can't remember bleep) raced at '66 LeMans with them. After that, I shudder to think further about that... Since you asked, here's my racecar now doing mostly street terror duty: This is the same 427 SideOiler as in the GT with about 80HP more than they raced with. We have much more radical cams and cylinder heads these days and I have much more induction than the single 830 Holley it raced with. Only I haven't been to 210 MPH as they did! (155 at 6200 RPM) Thanks for asking. I think I do better at 1:1 than 1:12. What do you say?

Syd, Glad it worked for you. Yes Trump should have put more thought into the front end geometry. Early on I decided to glue all the joint connections and sacrifice steering. It's a shame for this much money. Of course, guys on here can make lathe-turned rods, cast uprights and adjustable heim joints and probably their own steering racks. I will envy them forever. Fearing what's happening to you and because I'm sometimes a klutz, I made a simple 1/8" foamboard cradle that the tub sits in and I move it around and pick it up by that. You can just see it in a few of my shots. Doors: Are you using the bubble? I filled the recess in my driver door with two-part Bondo. Also be sure to install the door 'eyebrows' in the roof. I found they secure the doors more snugly when closed. The doors will sit higher than the roof a bit if you don't and that looks junky. Almost forgot-a tip about the knockoffs. The rears have no 'cap' in the center-the bearing is way deep inside. If you want accurate knockoffs, drill the center of the two rear knockoffs. See mine and here's the 1:1 on my Cobra, same as GT. Also my Goodyears were brand new in this snap-they COME all crappy and scuffy like this. Then they turn tan from exhaust and brake dust instantly. These are the same 9 1/2" magnesium Halibrands as the GT only I polish the outers and leave the centers natural. Keep goin' man!

The aluminum pan is in fact known as a 'turkey pan'-because it looks like one. It is used on a GT to isolate the carb(s) from engine heat. On Cobras it is sealed to the hood scoop to block heat and admit ambient air. The plexi 'funnel' above on the carb air horn is to prevent the fuel 'fog' from spreading and igniting on the headers. Weber carbed small block cars used a flat aluminum plate suspended over the carb throats for the same reason. It's plexi so the driver has some rear vision through the mail slot bulkhead and rear glass. Water would be filled from the highest point in the system. The GT's rad and lines running aft are at floor level. No radiator cap so don't add one. Generally (the way I fill the Cobra) it is through the temperature sensor bung on the top of the intake manifold. It's not detailed here by Trump. I think the 'aluminum' tank attached on the driver's side of the firewall is the 'overflow' or expansion tank and was probably where they filled GT's-see how high it is? It's above the engine and has a cap. The tin around the brake ducts look good-did you Alclad them? The brake hoses may be a problem-stuff them with cotton or bend some solder to get the shape they need to get to the brakes.

That's great news Jason-get it started, I'd love to see more builds. As I stated above, I didn't buy the KA set.

Looks very nice Syd-like a Trumpeter factory display build. Neat as a pin. The brake lines you did really add to the car. I agree about the fiddly suspension. You can only go so far with this kit. Those fuel pumps are a challenge-are you going to plumb them? If so here are the real Stewart Warner A240 pumps on an earlier model GT: I went nuts on mine and added the wire clamps on the bottom of each (bent pins) and suggested the mounting clamps with flat black for the rubber damper and a stripe of silver for the clamp. The pump body I painted Titan gold and a black top cap. Of course I wasted my time as it gets lost when the bulkhead goes on. Leave the trailing arms off so you can slide the cockpit and chassis plate on, then snug down the front. It's a sweat spreading the cockpit over that rear firewall.

Thanks-that's a good point. It's all here. Surely we're going different routes-that will hopefully inspire other guys to jump in with their own builds.

Attention Syd, Earlier I said I would post some shots to show how I handled that front chassis section you asked about. I've suddenly realized that I've been posting my work in your thread. I apologize for this oversight and if you prefer I will start my own thread rather than clutter yours. Please advise. However, progress on mine has shown what's been done so far and with running my 1:1 this season it will be slow progress on the kit for a while. So I don't have a ton to add-just wanted to answer your questions and give a few 'heads-up' before you got to sticky parts. The way I solve model problems is not the only way and plenty of skilled guys on here (as yourself) have indeed got better answers. I'm hoping to see a lot of stuff I could have done better. I will post a few now, begging your indulgence. You'll see that corner and some techniques I tried and was happy about. Here's the corner and gas fill area: A better view of the tin panel overlaps: This shows a chassis panel I tried to suggest; it's the blue shape with two holes right before the door opening. Originals actually had three lightening holes-one large and two smaller arranged vertically. I'm not talented enough to get three on a small piece of .020... Also seen is the long aluminum sheet that contains the brake duct inlet. Rather than strip all of Trump's chrome, I left these-instead I scuffed them lightly with gray scuff pad and found it has the sheen I wanted but with the shopworn look of the real racecars. Vary how much or little you want to dull them. Finally, in the rear I made my own anti-roll bar and links from .075 coat hanger, annealed and left blackened. In scale it comes out to a hair over 7/8" thick, about perfect for bars which range from 3/4" to 1 1/4". I bent mine under the headers but plenty of GT's had them run over the headers, no doubt for quick change adjustments. I made thicker springs in the front but failed to do the rears and now I hate the skinny, out of scale coils there. And yes, one brake line is missing. Oh well...

Yes, certainly the kit is too expensive for what you get. I know why SMC didn't do a detail-up kit. The other company did (can't remember name) but I did not see the worth of adding another $150 for essentially PE and white metal of many kit parts. It would be a great $100 kit because the shapes and fits are great but they really cut corners on the suspension and a lot of the engine and brake detail. At the kit's current price it should have ALL the correct detail and fit of the 1:1. I think Trump capitalized on the fact that except for die-casts it's the only one that's been done in large scale. That's why they hooked me.

Thanks, nice to hear. Hope it makes you want to get one and show us your interpretation.

My best guess based on my reference snaps is that the fuel filler collar is retained with countersunk machine screws-which would be flush. I never saw studs or bolt heads. The chassis could be threaded there for either the screws or bolts-just never saw bolts. The similar competition filler on my Cobra is retained by machine screws. Here's the best reference shot I have of that area. It clearly shows that panel's overlap and the fuel collar has no bolts protruding. Also note that no 2 of the racecars were ever exactly alike-but they all had a generally scruffy, workman-like appearance. No gleamy stuff on them except brake rotors and the chrome street-car mirror.: Over this weekend I'll try to post a few snaps of how I handled this area on my kit.

No, it actually overlaps the outer chassis edges on the 1:1 car. It looks half-a$$ed but when the fenders go on it closes the gap to the fender. It looks strange with the nose off but as usual with this kit, you don't see any gaps when closed up. You did neat work-continue what you did.

Looks fine Syd. Nice solution. A. Leave the bezels as they are. B. Mask dials and all of dash except what the dials are mounted on and shoot black. 'A'. Is much easier and looks neat and fine for a non-concours build. You are not recreating an exact racecar. Again-near zero of this work is finally visible. Some thoughts ahead: The front suspension is very wobbly and fidgety. Didn't need operating features so I mocked-up the ride height I wanted then glued the shock and a-arms in position. Watch the assembly sequence of the body to chassis, rear bulkhead and rear trailing arms. I left off the upper rear trailing arms, lay in the cockpit structure with loose bulkhead, then the greenhouse (spread over the rear bulkhead)then snap down the forward chassis structure. Then the rear arms go on. You can do any way you want-just giving you heads up that you gotta spend time mocking up.

The large rectangle on the left is not a vent-it's a fuse panel. The fuses are the vertical 'ribs'-they should have a 'glass' tube in each. The surround was raw aluminum or black paint. A bunch of unsightly wires hang down from the panel and head aft between the seat and side panel. Gurney shows you how: You can also see why Gurney needed his famous roof 'bubble'. The toggles are cut lengths of Wifey's 'silk pins'-real thin. Drilled the Trump switches and a drop of epoxy on each followed by silver marker on the bezels. Actually mark the bezels first then add the pins. Yes the cars raced with almost all the cockpit details black including the gauge bezels. They all had slight differences like the labels on Gurney's dash or a horn emblem or a rubber pad taped over the emblem. FWIW, 1046 did not get a roll bar until after LeMans-I omitted mine and may mount the mirror on the dashtop or the windshield header.

Syd, From your other post on SMC; "Working on individual modules as I can't quite visualize where to paint the chassis black and where to paint aluminum as I want the front aluminum." Since you want a black chassis simply paint everything I have in dark blue-black. The entire chassis was steel so that's what you do black. The exception was the nose bottom cover panel (which Trump colored 'silver') and the tin work for the brake ducts in the nose. Those flat panels on either side of the seats are chassis structure for the fuel cells. There are rivets in them similar to what I did there. The entire cabin floor and rear bulkhead as well as the inner roof and w'shield uprights are the chassis-called monocoque. Hope this helps.