Help....What is it?

[10thumbs]

Guys,

What kind of transmission deal does this cutaway show?  As I understand, the clutch is in the round box attached to the flywheel.  Why the huge driveshaft?  Or is it a safety-type of housing for the driveshaft?  And now the real question.  No transmission?  Is this a direct drive unit?

Another, different car from the mid 60's;

I was on the HAMB and found out this is not an "in and out box".  These were not used in drag racing, even though some folks call them such.  In and out boxes were used on sprinters and midgets.

Can anyone help?

Ahem....Calling Ace!  Where art thou?

Thanks guys, Michael

[Jon Haigwood]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/shadowolf50/DirectDriveUnit.jpg

 

Found this at Speed City Resins

Called a Direct Drive Bell Housing . Appears to be just that, a clutch unit for direct drive with a drive line housing. Not the same function as an"in and out Box" . which just engages it into gear, no clutch.Push start it and go.

Not sure how that would work in  drag race setup.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jon Haigwood

[Toner283]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/shadowolf50/DirectDriveUnit.jpg

 

Found this at Speed City Resins

Called a Direct Drive Bell Housing . Appears to be just that, a clutch unit for direct drive with a drive line housing. Same function as an"in and out Box" 

Not sure how that would work in  drag race setup.

For drag only vehicles. You are either sitting still with the clutch in or you are moving forward. One speed, driveshaft spinning the same rpm as the engine. No reverse.

 

Wind the engine up, dump the clutch and hold on.

[10thumbs]

Super pic, thanks Jon!  Yep, as I think to have learned, in&out boxes are not for the drag strip.

Chris, I read on the HAMB this type of setup needs nitro-fired big hp motors or it just won't work.  Is the fat driveshaft then a safety housing?

Thanks guys.

[Jon Haigwood]

Super pic, thanks Jon!  Yep, as I think to have learned, in&out boxes are not for the drag strip.

Chris, I read on the HAMB this type of setup needs nitro-fired big hp motors or it just won't work.  Is the fat driveshaft then a safety housing?

Thanks guys.

Looks like a safety housing to me Would also help keep the rear axle from rotating upwards 

[10thumbs]

Jon, yeah I think it must be a safety feature, maybe like a hardened steel pipe.  This stuff is confusing without a doubt.  I want at least a similar to period correct setup for my ongoing project from the early70's.  Not even experienced guys on the HAMB are sure about some of these things.

[Mike Kucaba]

The large diameter drive shaft is possibly a torque tube set up.

[Toner283]

Super pic, thanks Jon!  Yep, as I think to have learned, in&out boxes are not for the drag strip.

Chris, I read on the HAMB this type of setup needs nitro-fired big hp motors or it just won't work.  Is the fat driveshaft then a safety housing?

Thanks guys.

Doesn't necessarily have to be a nitro motor but a big horsepower engine is definitely needed.

And most of the ones I have seen up close there is a big safety cover over the drive shaft. Usually a heavy duty piece of metal bent in a U shape to cover the top three quarters of the drive shaft. Usually 12 or 14 gauge. In the second pic you posted imagine yourself sitting in the driver's seat. Where are your legs and feet? Plus if catastrophic failure were to happen and the driveshaft broke and got loose what is the first part of your anatomy it is going to come after?

This is the same reason they made clutch scatter shields mandatory on higher horse power cars. if you go to Google Images and search clutch explosions there are a lot of pretty wild pictures showing the aftermath of a clutch explosion after they have come apart. Big Daddy Don Garlits actually lost half of one of his feet due to a clutch explosion in one of his Top Fuel Cars.

 

Edited August 10, 2015 by Toner283

[10thumbs]

Thanks Chris, now that this is clear, what kind of development does this pic show?  There's the steel clutch can and a driveshaft housing, what is the unit in between? 

Transmission of some sort?  Why wouldn't it be covered as well?

[Ace-Garageguy]

It's definitely Lenco, either a direct drive in-out box or a planetary "reverser".  A scattershield would really be a good idea, too.

 

Edited August 10, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[AzTom]

It is a Hayes dual disc clutch and a Lenco a direct drive in-out box.

[Jon Haigwood]

Some of the Sprint cars classes the were required to start the engine on their own, no push starts. So they used clutch boxes and in and out boxes. To me it sounded kind of redundant but I they must have had their reasons . 

 

Why would they run a clutch and an in-out-box on a drag setup ? I thought it may be a reverser ?

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jon Haigwood

[Ace-Garageguy]

Some of the Sprint cars classes the were required to start the engine on their own, no push starts. So they used clutch boxes and in and out boxes. To me it sounded kind of redundant but I they must have had their reasons . 

 

Why would they run a clutch and an in-out-box on a drag setup ? I thought it may be a reverser ?

I recall seeing in-out boxes on drag cars in the way back. It gives you a "neutral" essentially, so you don't have to sit there with a really heavy clutch depressed and the engine running.

Another possible reason would be to provide a single gear ratio that's different from 1:1.  1:1 is all you'd get with a clutch alone.

[Toner283]

It's definitely Lenco, either a direct drive in-out box or a planetary "reverser".  A scattershield would really be a good idea, too.

 

I agree with Ace. Kinda hard to tell from the picture (I am on my phone). But both the in and out and the reverser became more common as time went on. The lenco reversers are easy to spot on a car in person. They have "LENCO REVERSE" in raised letters on the case.

[Jon Haigwood]

Some of the Sprint cars classes the were required to start the engine on their own, no push starts. So they used clutch boxes and in and out boxes. To me it sounded kind of redundant but I they must have had their reasons . 

 

Why would they run a clutch and an in-out-box on a drag setup ? I thought it may be a reverser ?

I recall seeing in-out boxes on drag cars in the way back. It gives you a "neutral" essentially, so you don't have to sit there with a really heavy clutch depressed and the engine running.

Another possible reason would be to provide a single gear ratio that's different from 1:1.  1:1 is all you'd get with a clutch alone.

That makes sense . Learn something new here every day. 

[10thumbs]

Reverser.  This is from the restored Ramchargers F/C.

I think this altogether is a bit confusing.  So, this small unit (which should have a blanket) is a way to disengage the direct drive shown in pic #1 and pic #2.

OOps, I just found this.  It's a Lenco Reverser!  Then an explanation from an A/Fuel Racer.

Re: How does a top fuel dragster reverse?

November 26th, 2012, 05:36 AM

"That lever pulls a gear back into a sungear, then the tail shaft spins backwards.
They have a centrifugal clutch with 5 disks and 4 floaters against the flywheel, against the fingers on the pressure plate rides a bearing on a tube. It's also attached to a fork then to linkage that connects it to the clutch peddle. When the bearing is pushed forward it pushes the fingers in and it takes the tension off between the last disk and pressure plate.That would be netrual. On the other side of the bearing is a hydrolic ram. It's usually filled with water or somekind of 2w oil. That will control how fast the bearing is allowed to go back and let the finers rotate out. The fingers push against the dough nut in the pressure plate and apply clamping force to the clutch pack. One way to program it would be to have an air activated switch under the gas peddle, it could be converted to an electric signal to a programable timer. It would hold it at a certain point for a certain ammount of time. If you could see it as a line on a computer it would be a serries of little steps. Then it would go back to an air signal to control the ram.
Anyway, you push the clutch peddle in after the burnout and pull the brake, after you stop, reach down with your left hand and push the lever forward. If it doesn't go, you can try to let the clutch peddle out a little and see if you can feel it in the lever. If it's ideling to high and you can't push the clutch all the way in pull the fuel lever back some until the engine comes down some. Once you get it in reverse, let your foot off the clutch. Before you get going to fast push the clutch back in. When you pass the starting line, push the clutch back in, pull the brake and stop, reach down with your left hand and pull the lever back. Now, start pumping the brake, and work the peddle until you light the top light. Then pull the fuel lever back, light the bottom bulb, let your foot off the clutch and wait for the flash of yellow."

 

Well this explains why after a burnout it takes forever to get the car to back up. 

 

[10thumbs]

I made a piece this morning, I'll keep it.  I think it looks similar, and when the motor sits in the frame the overall view looks kind of like a race car type application.  I'll blast it with fine beads to get it clean and then a blanket goes around it.  I still have to make a small lever that will be designed as a hand lever on the left side of the cockpit.

 

Michael

[Ace-Garageguy]

Looking good.